Virgin Trains

[Statto]

A bit of a cock up last Friday as someone forgot to set the points at Weaver Junction, & sent a VT from London heading to Liverpool onto the Warrington branch http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/live...eet-train-went-the-wrong-way-100252-28216920/

 

[MCR247]

LOL at how 'they could have hit another train'

 

[dk1]

A bit of a cock up last Friday as someone forgot to set the points at Weaver Junction, & sent a VT from London heading to Liverpool onto the Warrington branch http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/live...eet-train-went-the-wrong-way-100252-28216920/

“We could have hit a train when we were going along the wrong line. It’s quite a serious breach of protocol. There were a lot of people waiting for their loved ones and people waiting for passengers to get off".

What a load of tosh. Simple driver error :roll:

 

[MCR247]

Simple signalling error?

 

[ainsworth74]

Simple signalling error?

Both really I would have thought, signalling for setting the wrong route and driver for accepting it (though I suppose the driver might not have had time to stop the train before reaching the points).

 

[Pumbaa]

Both really I would have thought, signalling for setting the wrong route and driver for accepting it (though I suppose the driver might not have had time to stop the train before reaching the points).

Yes - the feather for Weaver is flashing, and the turn-off is 105EPS. You couldn't pull up before the turn-off even if you wanted to.

It's not the first time it's happened, and to the best of my knowledge it usually happens to the xx33 departures in the peaks. Maybe the signallers just get locked into the clockface nature of the 9-5 timetable?

 

[ightenhill]

Travelled through Stockport a few weeks back. Why the hell isnt it gated?? Considering the terminating platforms at Piccadilly are 'open' it seems very odd.

No idea. Is there some strange bylaw that forces Virgin to stop at Stockport (something to do with the bridge) it does seem everyone simply takes advantage in and out of Piccadilly of using it is as a free commuter service.

 

[Pumbaa]

No idea. Is there some strange bylaw that forces Virgin to stop at Stockport (something to do with the bridge) it does seem everyone simply takes advantage in and out of Piccadilly of using it is as a free commuter service.

Myth. XC services used to run non-stop through there a few years back.

 

[merlodlliw]

The SVR fare from Chester to London is £46.20 (same as from Flint and Wrexham).
Oddly without a railcard there are different peak restrictions even on the same train.
The 0835 is banned from Chester (and the Wrexham connection) but allowed from Flint (0817).

I guess everywhere is "down the hill" from Bwlchgwyn!
Richard

Hello again LNW GW, thanks for that, yes its like the old days,all stations to Flint take SVR, from Chester they wont , at one time fares from Rhyl were cheaper than Colwyn Bay on the same VT train.

And yes its all downhill from here.

Bob

 

[ightenhill]

One thing that does puzzle me with Virgin is how it prices its super saver tkts.. Mid week I travel to London with work footing the bill but when I have to pay or bring family up for a show I can always get them to London at pretty bargain prices from Manchester or Preston. However is it just me or is to/from London the only destination where these prices exist.

 

[Zoe]

One thing that does puzzle me with Virgin is how it prices its super saver tkts..

As far as I know Virgin don't offer Super Off Peak fares, only Off Peak.

 

[tbtc]

If you commute Warrington - Preston you would fancy you chances and virgin appears not to care. The standard anytime single may be what you wanted anyway

Makes me wonder why LM are so keen to tap into this market, if people don't buy tickets (unless LM will enforce Penalty Fares on the chancers who are used to getting away with it on a Virgin service)

 

[dk1]

Simple signalling error?

Ok, 50/50 split.

 

[ightenhill]

As far as I know Virgin don't offer Super Off Peak fares, only Off Peak.

Sorry I meant the web price advanced booking tkts

 

[WestCoast]

Travelled through Stockport a few weeks back. Why the hell isnt it gated?? Considering the terminating platforms at Piccadilly are 'open' it seems very odd.

Stockport is another station like Wigan and Warrington that would be suitable for gating, Virgin must lose a lot of revenue on these short routes, but they just don't seem to care. I am not always pro-barrier but at these stations, it would be appropriate. If Virgin doesn't make passengers pay, they simply won't as there are no severe penalties on short journeys.

Makes me wonder why LM are so keen to tap into this market, if people don't buy tickets (unless LM will enforce Penalty Fares on the chancers who are used to getting away with it on a Virgin service)

I would definitely welcome London Midland on this route, I think there will be much more pro-active in checking tickets compared to Virgin, they will presumably use 4-car Desiros and won't be resistant in implementing penalty fares.

 

[dk1]

Makes me wonder why LM are so keen to tap into this market, if people don't buy tickets (unless LM will enforce Penalty Fares on the chancers who are used to getting away with it on a Virgin service)

Truth is that most passengers do buy tickets. Its just the odd teenagers really that try their luck. I am always suprised at how easy it is to get away with sometimes that so many always pay. I once had a guard travel pass with me on one of the then DOO 170s out of Liverpool St. He was really looking forward to seeing the look on the fare evaders faces expecting many on this full train not to have one. He told me as he left at Manningtree that only 1 person had an incorrect ticket & she was travelling through to Marks-Tey with a Witham season ticket as her husband was in that area & would pick her up. She offered to pay the difference.

 

[ainsworth74]

Its just the odd teenagers really that try their luck.

Yes because the only fare evaders are teenagers, no other age group would ever try such a thing. Bloody youth of today :roll:

 

[dk1]

Yes because the only fare evaders are teenagers, no other age group would ever try such a thing. Bloody youth of today :roll:

I see them everyday & its so obvious. Of course other age groups do but its the usual skint students or groups who will do the best to avoid a visit to a ticket office even with bargains such as groupsave to be had.

 

[WestCoast]

Truth is that most passengers do buy tickets. Its just the odd teenagers really that try their luck. I am always suprised at how easy it is to get away with sometimes that so many always pay. I once had a guard travel pass with me on one of the then DOO 170s out of Liverpool St. He was really looking forward to seeing the look on the fare evaders faces expecting many on this full train not to have one. He told me as he left at Manningtree that only 1 person had an incorrect ticket & she was travelling through to Marks-Tey with a Witham season ticket as her husband was in that area & would pick her up. She offered to pay the difference.

That is to a certain extent true in general, I believe most people are honest. Although having said that, you'd be surprised by the amount of fare evaders on say, the Tyne and Wear Metro - look at the "name and shame" boards outside each station! (If they still have them). I can remember seeing one board (can't remember exactly where it was) it told you the jobs of people convicted of fare evasion! There were many solicitors and doctors.

We are talking about specific Virgin Trains routes here - where there are no barriers, the distances are short, there is a severe lack of ticket checking and the worst they can do is make you pay an anytime single/return - a fare that many people want! It's also a bit of a culture difference between Penalty Fare zones and non-PF - when there is no threat of penalty then people are not as concerned with paying!

 

[dk1]

I does make me angry to see passengers freely getting away with it, but it makes me equally angry to see that the TOC does nothing about it. It seems Virgin are content to concentrate on raking in the millions from journeys to/from London & the major cities but almost give up on those intermediates. To be fair Virgin have tried to grab the market on the Stoke/Macclesfield/Wilmslow to Manchester run by offering Virgin only cheap fares but this has to be policed properly & with no gates & next to no chance of the train manager getting through such busy trains, some folk will try their arm.

 

[bnm]

Not forgetting, that on these shorter journeys, Virgin are still raking in their share of ORCATS from the 'Any Permitted' tickets. Maybe they've done the maths and decided it's not viable to barrier certain stations or perform on-board checks to determine whether these 'short-hoppers' have tickets or not.

 

[Anvil1984]

Yes because the only fare evaders are teenagers, no other age group would ever try such a thing. Bloody youth of today :roll:

To be honest I would say the majority of my evaders are about 50% student / under 25s and a further 25% under 16. Mainly tempered by the fact that I pick up a lot of passengers from Burley Park / Headingley to Horsforth and vice versa and they look to see where you are on the train and go the other way and its not nice when you have a 4 car 150 and no RPA on. They often just walk past the ticket office at Horsforth hoping we havent got time to get to them. Then you have the kids for the schools trying the same trick usually between Starbeck and Knaresborough and paying in shrapnel if they get stung for a ticket to give their mates a chance of getting off.
On the other hand there the older ones at York going to Poppleton on an evening, walk past booking office and sit at front (again usually 4 cars and no revenue support, also just to add a lot of fare paying passengers for Poppleton board at the front as its closer to the station exit there), the guards who start at front can often pick up at least 7/8 tickets in this time (but if we are being passenger friendly and dispatch from the rear to allow the late comers they get away with it). PAH, so annoying.

It annoys me and my collegues when the TOCs introduce their own SDR / SOR tickets which undercut the normal walk on fare as their is no incentive to buy before boarding just so they can potentially make a quick buck. XC was a major one on this and I believe VWC are the same

Sorry for off topic rant

 

[CosherB]

To be fair Virgin have tried to grab the market on the Stoke/Macclesfield/Wilmslow to Manchester run by offering Virgin only cheap fares but this has to be policed properly & with no gates & next to no chance of the train manager getting through such busy trains, some folk will try their arm.

But the checkers at Piccadilly will nab anyone coming off a non-Virgin train with a Virgin-only ticket, even if the TM on the train hasn't already done so (ticket checks are imposed at Wilmslow, too, at least in peak times).

I never buy these tickets as I want the option to use any train; Northern, ATW, or Virgin - the Pendos are only one an hour via Wilmslow so if you miss one (or it's cancelled) it's a heck of a wait for the next for such a short journey!

Most adults will buy a ticket because they realise the railway has to get income and there's no free lunch, and of course the cost is low compared to the hassle and shame of being caught cheating! Teenagers may be immature enough not to see that! And they have far less money to spend (usually)!

 

[dk1]

Most adults will buy a ticket because they realise the railway has to get income and there's no free lunch, and of course the cost is low compared to the hassle and shame of being caught cheating! Teenagers may be immature enough not to see that! And they have far less money to spend (usually)!

Then when we get the students who now risk prosecution & a criminal record which any future employer is going to be impressed with, when Mum gave them the train fare money in the first place & that was spent on a top-up & fags :roll:

 

[tbtc]

I wonder whether people would like Voyagers/ Pendolinos more if they hadn't replaced the last significant loco-hauled services in most of the country?

I know that there are 90s on the GEML, and a handful of services elsewhere (Chiltern's 67s, the once-a-week Pretendolino etc), but the new Virgin services meant the end of 47/86/87/90 haulage on most services. Any new trains are going to struggle for enthusiast-acceptance when they replace an old favourite like that.

Many of the problems (windows don't line up with seats/ disabled toilets take up a lot of room/ not a lot of tables) could be levelled at most modern stock, of course.

 

[MCR247]

People wouldn't have liked HSTs at the beginning because there was loads and they were replacing loco hauled, but now......

 

[tbtc]

People wouldn't have liked HSTs at the beginning because there was loads and they were replacing loco hauled, but now......

This is why I wish such forums as this existed thirty years ago - imagine the threads about these cheap rubbish HSTs that are replacing our beloved Deltics - I reckon the HSTs will all be scrapped by 1985

 

[Dreadnought]

If I was slightly more cynical I'd say it stems in no small part from Virgin's moderation of competition which allegedly led to the demise of WSMR.

Only had a quick skim of the thread so apologies if this has already been replied to... but this always makes me laugh.

The Moderation of Competition is not Virgins but is part of the existing InterCity West Coast franchise.

According to posts from Tony Miles on WNXX Virgin were happy to have this clause removed during negoiations of the contract but were refused. He also stated that VWC have had the DfT remind them that they would be in breach of contract if they didn't object under Moderation of Competition.

 

[WestCoast]

This is why I wish such forums as this existed thirty years ago - imagine the threads about these cheap rubbish HSTs that are replacing our beloved Deltics - I reckon the HSTs will all be scrapped by 1985

These terrible uncomfortable plasticky HSTs - I can imagine it now....(I wasn't around for their introduction)

 

[ralphchadkirk]

This is why I wish such forums as this existed thirty years ago - imagine the threads about these cheap rubbish HSTs that are replacing our beloved Deltics - I reckon the HSTs will all be scrapped by 1985

And they've got smaller windows, which isn't good, as a Mk1 had much more window space!