Virgin Trains

[MidnightFlyer]

If it's late then Preston office is likely to also be closed.



But it is mainly their own revenue as they are the dominant operator, Northern and ATW usually check tickets after departing from Wigan/Warrington, they aren't losing out.

I get the impression they just aren't bothered about short-distance fares, which is NOT the impression I get from FGW and East Coast (and NXEC before).

Monays-Fridays, Preston booking office is open until 2200, Wigan NW's just 2000.

Virgin couldn't give one about any journey over the Lancaster-Warrington stretch, or Keynes-Wolves, I've been on plenty of times and not been checked on these routes. They just don't want Northern for example getting advantages from missed fares for somewhere like St Helens Central at North Western, when VT are shelling out for the gates, like I said, look at Coventry.

 

[tbtc]

I don't think Virgin will ever satisfy enthusiasts.

They introduced a brand new fleet of trains (with the exception of the "one journey a week" Pretendolino, which is refurbished much better than any "refurb" any other TOC would do)...

...they massively increased the frequency on their services (London - Manchester was only once an hour when they took over)...

...they introduced a number of innovations (like dedicated radio channels in the headphone sockets, a "shop" selling books etc instead of just a "buffet")...

...they introduce frequent "clockface" services on Cross Country (which was always the poor relation of long distance travel)...

...but they are still criticised because

1. The windows on 390s are too small

2. The windows on 220/221/390s don't line up with seats (the same is true of most other modern units, but I never see 170s etc being criticised for this)

3. They weren't happy with WSMR setting up on "their" patch (GNER weren't happy with HT/GC setting up on the ECML either, but they don't get criticised for this)

4. They introduced a minor change to compete with WSMR (extending a portion of one London - Chester working to/from Wrexham) - GNER diverted their Hull service through Selby to compete with HT but don't get criticised for this)

5. The fares have gone up (something they do deserve criticism for, although they have introduced more "cheap" fares at the same time to balance things out)

6. You can't get a direct train from Nuneaton to Manchester or Tamworth to Liverpool any more (the Trent Valley stations had a very random stopping pattern under BR, and these flows are minor compared to the ones Virgin concentrate on)

7. The shop (seems to be fair criticism, although they still have a shop etc unlike some TOCs)

8. They killed off WSMR (well, no, DB did because of the opportunity cost of using WSRM stock, when they could be using it on subsidised Welsh services/ Birmingham commuter trips, sorry to spoilt the fairytale)

Some of the above is justified (to different extents), but I don't think it justifies the hatred some have for Virgin.

What I don't understand is that the same enthusiasts who dismiss National Express/ Arriva/ First/ Stagecoach (etc) by saying they don't want "bus companies" running trains also seem to hate the one "brand" to win a TOC (Virgin had nothing to do with trains before, they were known for Record Shops/ Airlines/ Cola etc)

 

[WestCoast]

They just don't want Northern for example getting advantages from missed fares for somewhere like St Helens Central at North Western, when VT are shelling out for the gates, like I said, look at Coventry.

The problem of a disjointed network with different TOCs and different shareholders to please. I still stand by point about gates at Wigan and Warrington, it may benefit Northern as well but the barriers at Darlington installed by NXEC also benefited Northern, CrossCountry and TransPennine Express. Seems like a nice excuse for Virgin to use, other operators know full well that barriers will benefit other TOCs but they know it will bring benefit to them aswell. It's not like Virgin have invested a lot in these stations. Didn't Coventry have a way of avoiding barriers by going through a shopping centre? As for Coventry, well Centro rightly denied them funding they didn't deserve it.

 

[MCR247]

I remember when the shop only sold Virgin cola

 

[Ticket Man]

watching from the inside out, i don't usually comment too often on virgin threads but there are a few myths flying around here.

There are no plans (that i know of) to get rid of the shop, the chip and pin pads were removed as they had come to the end of their service life and were no longer supported by the supplier. If they had kept them, when some would have failed they would not be repaired or replaced and would have resulted in a mish mash of some sets with and some sets without. It's because of this that the decision was made to withdraw them.

A replacement was not installed for the simple reason of cost, how would you justify to your shareholders the cost of researching, installing, integrating and training of staff for new chip and pin devices when its so close to the end of the franchise.

If there was a possibility of me getting evicted from my house, I certainly wouldn't be making sure all the fixtures and fittings are fine for the next lot (not that I'd go around smashing up the place)

 

[SS4]

watching from the inside out, i don't usually comment too often on virgin threads but there are a few myths flying around here.

There are no plans (that i know of) to get rid of the shop, the chip and pin pads were removed as they had come to the end of their service life and were no longer supported by the supplier. If they had kept them, when some would have failed they would not be repaired or replaced and would have resulted in a mish mash of some sets with and some sets without. It's because of this that the decision was made to withdraw them.

A replacement was not installed for the simple reason of cost, how would you justify to your shareholders the cost of researching, installing, integrating and training of staff for new chip and pin devices when its so close to the end of the franchise.

If there was a possibility of me getting evicted from my house, I certainly wouldn't be making sure all the fixtures and fittings are fine for the next lot (not that I'd go around smashing up the place)

Don't forget the fact that you can still get what is essentially a gift card from the station although idk if it's all stations or just VT ones.

 

[Ticket Man]

Don't forget the fact that you can still get what is essentially a gift card from the station although idk if it's all stations or just VT ones.

I think there's a supplement on AVB that we can sell that people can use in the shop but I've never sold one and I don't know anyone who has.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Would you prefer at seat service rather than a shop?

I just mean the money thing that is all, you should be able to pay by card and they should have change. I honestly dont prefer either, i will buy from either, i enjoy walking down a train at 125 always feels exciting, that is really wierd but ah well.

 

[Butts]

I concur with the remarks about lack of ticket checks.

If I get on at Birmingham International (no barriers) and off at Sandwell & Dudley (no barriers) or Wolverhampton (no barriers) they never check the tickets on the journey.

A lot of airline passengers are getting a free trip from the Airport to these destinations.

It's the same on the reverse journey - they only start checking the tickets after Birmingham International if at all.

You can sit in First Class for free !!!

It may have something (certainly in the evening after 1830) to do with the fact in the old Centro Area (can't remember it's new name) a super off peak return from the Airport to Sandwell & Dudley is less than £2 - just chuck the return away.

With regard to the quality of Virgin Trains Services :

1st Class - great (if you get a ticket at the right price) Lounges, Good Grub,Booze, Newspapers, WIFI - all gratis

2nd Class Sh*t

Just compare the service on Virgin with Cross Country - the former wins by a mile

 

[RichmondCommu]

It was a little vague when I re-read it.



Yes, but they have failed to make even the most basic improvements to some of their stations, a lick of paint here and there, chairs and new windows in the waiting rooms at Warrington Bank Quay, even a decent retail outlet like Costa. These are intercity stations after all! The stations north of Preston are all quite nice though. I would even advocate the installation of barriers at Wigan and Warrington, it would help alleviate the problems of short-distance fare evasion on this section of the line.

In fairness to Virgin, Crewe looks very shabby but as i understand it Network Rail is responsible for its up keep. I can't remember whether it was included in Lord Adonis's hit list but as the DFT has scraped that it doesn't really matter! Out of interest who owns Preston as we get off there and it could do with a lick of paint too.

I think the Pendolinos are pretty good to be honest. Yes i agree that the trains can appear to be rather cramped when full but this is no different to being on a long haul flight! I've done London to Sydney many times with young children and even in economy plus its not much fun!

 

[Crossover]

I have to say on the whole I am fairly pro Virgin

I actually quite like the trains on the whole and don't find the Pendolinos all that bad. Sure, the windows are a bit small but when sat down its not a huge issue. I used to (and to an extent still do) like the Class 185's, but when travelling on a freezing cold winters day, having spent 40 mins on a 185, it is rather nice to be on a 390 for 90 mins or so (or so I thought anyway)

I have also managed to use the free Wi-Fi a couple of times - when on the other week returning from Tamworth to Stafford, I did a speed test from my iPod Touch and got a download speed of 1.6Mb/s...for what is essentially 3G, that is pretty damned good in my opinion!

 

[SS4]

I concur with the remarks about lack of ticket checks.

If I get on at Birmingham International (no barriers) and off at Sandwell & Dudley (no barriers) or Wolverhampton (no barriers) they never check the tickets on the journey.

A lot of airline passengers are getting a free trip from the Airport to these destinations.

It's the same on the reverse journey - they only start checking the tickets after Birmingham International if at all.

You can sit in First Class for free !!!

I've noticed that, en route from New St to Euston they check somewhere between International (BHI) and Coventry (and I sit near the front of the train). I remember coming back from Euston once and our arrival at BHI coincided with the clothes show. Me and my brother had been quietly chatting (it was the quiet zone) in First and everyone just piled on and some chav was playing whatever passes for 'music' which soon put an end to the conversation - cue the mp3 player and Rammstein. Can't blame the staff for that though, it wasn't their fault.

It may have something (certainly in the evening after 1830) to do with the fact in the old Centro Area (can't remember it's new name) a super off peak return from the Airport to Sandwell & Dudley is less than £2 - just chuck the return away.

Yeah, I noticed that although it used to be £1.50 return between any two stations in the Network West Midlands (NWM) area, I remember station staff at New St telling everyone to get a return!

With regard to the quality of Virgin Trains Services :

1st Class - great (if you get a ticket at the right price) Lounges, Good Grub,Booze, Newspapers, WIFI - all gratis

2nd Class Sh*t

Just compare the service on Virgin with Cross Country - the former wins by a mile

You also get access to the first class lounges with any First Class ticket (£14.50 for a First Advance is a bargain to boot). I was surprised they offer free booze (and I've never been ID'd!) although I did have to ask the attendant for more lemonade since my vodka lemonade was too strong
Virgin's drinks selection is brilliant (even the tea tastes nice - very difficult without a proper kettle).

It's been a while since I went standard class with Virgin (I prefer quiet and space and will always sacrifice time to gain it) and even then I got a weekend upgrade at BHI

Overall, I would say I am pro Virgin, they've done a decent job (perhaps exacerbated by the fact I don't recall pre-Virgin days)

 

[bengolding]

Believe you me, it's very easy to get on at North Western and depart at Preston travelling by Virgin without paying when the ticket office is shut.

On a Pendolino, most probably. I've found that TMs on the Voyagers are more likely to check tickets on short stretches such as this. On the Pendolino, northbound ticket checks between Warrington and Lancaster/Coventry and Wolves are practically non-existent (even in First Class), with no barriered stations either. However, there was a huge blockade with police at Preston when I alighted from the 16:30 to Glasgow last week. Judging by the number of people caught out, it appeared to be a great success.

As others have said, Virgin just don't seem to care about protecting their revenue on short stretches. No on board RPIs to assist their TMs and no barriered stations (except New St and random Euston check). Many VT stations can easily have ticket gates installed.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

i hope the next wc franchise does something about the shop situation

I've heard several on board announcements recently after advising passengers that no cards are accepted in the Shop but to watch this space as things will change soon.

Overall, I've been quite pleased with Virgin although admittedly I always travel First with them. Even then, their First product has gone dowhill ever since Primo ended. But their on board hosts and TMs are great ambassadors for the company.

 

[90019]

A trolley would never be able to get down the aisles, they are always full of luggage:roll:

Fit a snowplough onto the trolley

 

[jon0844]

I find it odd that Virgin wouldn't rent a chip and pin pad from their bank, as they must lose a fortune... and so must the bank. My company does and they don't cost that much.

I could actually see it being more sensible to go card only and do away with cashing up. Surely almost everyone has a debit card these days?

Sent from my MB525 using Tapatalk

 

[Failed Unit]

I don't understand why Virgin would have a problem with protecting revenue at say Wigan. East coast have just done kings cross to the primary benefit of FCC. If you barrier a station and get northerns passengers buying a ticket you get the commission so sure that 10% (or whatever) is nice free money even if northern get the rest.

As for the shop it is the cynic in me the want it gone. Surely the revenue the are losing by not taking cards is outweighing the cost of the upgrade? If the win the franchise next time the need to fight hard to get that revenue back if they keep the shops. They haven't said they want rid but are not acting like they want to keep it. Classic run it down then close behaviour. You can lease equipment like most small retailers do and hand it back at the end of the lease in 2012.

 

[tbtc]

I don't understand why Virgin would have a problem with protecting revenue at say Wigan. East coast have just done kings cross to the primary benefit of FCC

Same with EMT at Sheffield (EMT have about four departures an hour out of around twenty in total - Northern/ XC/ TPE do the rest), yet EMT are wanting to put gates in (even though the primary benificiaries will be Northern)

 

[Failed Unit]

Same with EMT at Sheffield (EMT have about four departures an hour out of around twenty in total - Northern/ XC/ TPE do the rest), yet EMT are wanting to put gates in (even though the primary benificiaries will be Northern)

I would be interested to know how much money the barriers make, ie the % commision on other operators tickets. I guess the way the accounting works we will never know, but I am sure EMT at Sheffield will be making a reasonable amount, just as East Coast will at Kings Cross.

In Virgin's case, Warrington & Wigan the certainly have the majority of passengers and as others say the chances of someone on the ATW train not having a ticket are slim. Maybe the Liverpool stoppers more likely, but I am sure the bigger problem is on thier own services. The can't be anti-barrier otherwise they wouldn't have them at Euston, although to be honest as an infrequent user I have yet to have the experience. New Street I have only ever had the check off London Midland.

 

[dk1]

Cannot understand why Virgin dont just give the shop staff on at least some of the busiest services an Advantix machine to do card transactions. These come with chip & pin. I know they may not have enough for all, but surely this would help on say Glasgow trains.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

As a senior person who likes doing long day trips I think Virgin's railcard policy is brilliant - no time restrictions on a "saver" fare. On cross-London journeys (starting from Chester) I can be in Euston easily by 9 and even reach the "other" terminal before their off-peak restriction ends at 0930.

So we all want gates do we? I think not.
Open stations are much more customer-friendly.
I expect the new franchise will enforce gates, as that is the DfT trend.
You could always install them and then leave them open, as ATW usually do at Chester!

 

[Ticket Man]

So we all want gates do we? I think not.
Open stations are much more customer-friendly.
I expect the new franchise will enforce gates, as that is the DfT trend.
You could always install them and then leave them open, as ATW usually do at Chester!

I know virgin can't have gates at Euston with out a major station rebuild, they tried before but were turned down on health and safety grounds. The top of the platform ramp was deemed to close to the concourse and thus would create big unsafe swells of people at the top and they can't put them at the bottom of the ramps as people are not allowed to que on a ramp. they would have to extend the ramp doors further down the platform like they are on platforms 8 - 11 in order to install barriers. Iwould't bank on seeing barriers before HS2 (if it happens)

thank you to the 60's architect who designed Euston so dis jointed

 

[dk1]

So we all want gates do we? I think not.
Open stations are much more customer-friendly.
I expect the new franchise will enforce gates, as that is the DfT trend.
You could always install them and then leave them open, as ATW usually do at Chester!

& NXEA at Norwich. £800k well spent

 

[TomJ93]

I personally really like Virgin. For sure there is the odd miserable as sin member of staff who lets the side down, but people like the bloke from the Pretendo's buffet, some of the platform staff at coventry and the conductor who tried to say good morning to everyone today (on the 5:50 from international) are all top class members of staff.

The lack of cards in the shop is a pain, but WSMR had them for payments over £5, who really spends that much in the shop anyway?

So Pendo standard you can get some rotten seats, but then again the tables near the bulkheads in E are fantastic! 1st is extremely nice, and in advance very cheap.

 

[Zoe]

I doubt many people are going to risk getting on a Virgin service without a ticket though. You can't exactly describe the Standard Anytime single to the first stop as cheap.

 

[merlodlliw]

As a senior person who likes doing long day trips I think Virgin's railcard policy is brilliant - no time restrictions on a "saver" fare. On cross-London journeys (starting from Chester) I can be in Euston easily by 9 and even reach the "other" terminal before their off-peak restriction ends at 0930.

So we all want gates do we? I think not.
Open stations are much more customer-friendly.
I expect the new franchise will enforce gates, as that is the DfT trend.
You could always install them and then leave them open, as ATW usually do at Chester!

Hello, just down the hill from me, out of interest what do you pay for the saver fare, with railcard discount.
The gates at Chester I agree never appear to be closed,seems a bit of an extravagance, dont know who paid for them,probably North West regional Dev Agency.

Bob

 

[Failed Unit]

I doubt many people are going to risk getting on a Virgin service without a ticket though. You can't exactly describe the Standard Anytime single to the first stop as cheap.

Not at Euston, put on the Warrington - Lancaster section maybe. Easy to avoid the gaurd as the journey time is small and the stations are open. I have only ever had a check at Preston from a Northern service on the bridge ironically changing onto the Virgin, so Northern helping to protect Virgins revenue as my checks for that journey were, Manchester piccadilly (platform 13) on train, Preston (on bridge) Glasgow queen street barrier and on train. This is typical heading north.

If you commute Warrington - Preston you would fancy you chances and virgin appears not to care. The standard anytime single may be what you wanted anyway.

I have the same arguement on east coast. Would someone board with no ticket heading to Leeds? Probably not high risk of getting caught. Newark - Grantham. Low risk of getting caught hence why the barriers are there. Do EMT contribute to the upkeep I doubt it but they get the commission should EMt not collect the fares themselves.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Hello, just down the hill from me, out of interest what do you pay for the saver fare, with railcard discount.
The gates at Chester I agree never appear to be closed,seems a bit of an extravagance, dont know who paid for them,probably North West regional Dev Agency.

Bob

The SVR fare from Chester to London is £46.20 (same as from Flint and Wrexham).
Oddly without a railcard there are different peak restrictions even on the same train.
The 0835 is banned from Chester (and the Wrexham connection) but allowed from Flint (0817).

I guess everywhere is "down the hill" from Bwlchgwyn!
Richard

 

[ightenhill]

Fairly pro Virgin now that the Manchester to Euston route is running well.. I need the service 3 to 4 times a week. My only criticism, missing chefs in the morning in first class seems to be quite a regular occurrence from Manchester and evening returns from London seem to often fill up with masses of clubbing youths at Stockport who travel for free as far as I can work out!

 

[Failed Unit]

The lack of cards in the shop is a pain, but WSMR had them for payments over £5, who really spends that much in the shop anyway?

You will be surprised! East coast have the same restriction but when you buy a sandwich and drink you are close to that anyway. I have myself spent £4.60 the looked for something to buy to take it over £5. Likewise I am sure 2x hot drinks + snacks take it over £5 very easily. If you buy the cooked breakfast in standard on east coast that is above £5 for a start.

Virgin used to sell CDs (may still do haven't looked) you are unlikely to buy that impulse buy with a card.

 

[dk1]

Fairly pro Virgin now that the Manchester to Euston route is running well.. I need the service 3 to 4 times a week. My only criticism, missing chefs in the morning in first class seems to be quite a regular occurrence from Manchester and evening returns from London seem to often fill up with masses of clubbing youths at Stockport who travel for free as far as I can work out!

Travelled through Stockport a few weeks back. Why the hell isnt it gated?? Considering the terminating platforms at Piccadilly are 'open' it seems very odd.