Virgin Trains to Shrewsbury

[The Planner]

If the headway was less than 6 minutes then Ive no doubt Virgin would go from Shrewsbury right up behind the ATW.

 

[merlodlliw]

If the headway was less than 6 minutes then Ive no doubt Virgin would go from Shrewsbury right up behind the ATW.

Im sure this will have some kind of problems, if 1G30 is a minute or two late,i'm just guessing we may see a change in the May ATW timetables, or indeed the December ATW timetable, has 1G30 0530 ex Chester a couple of years ago used to go to Cardiff & Maesteg if I recall, I appreciate the ATW timetable for December 2014 closed for consultation two weeks ago,before the ORR clearance of the Vt yesterday, Is there enough custom at Wellington & Telford,the only stops before Wolves for both trains running six minutes apart, also from December two class 158 services Holyhead to Birmingham direct are axed,the 0514 & 0715, and the busy 0747 Wrexham to Birmingham from May 2015 looks to be axed, with ATW not denying it, interesting this thread was exactly two years old yesterday,

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Forgive me if this is answered elsewhere and I've missed it, but if this new Shrewsbury service is stopping at Wolverhampton, does it therefore effectively "bring back" the Euston - Wolverhampton services that VT cancelled previously?

 

[MCR247]

Virgin still run from Wolves - Euston so what do you mean?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Virgin still run from Wolves - Euston so what do you mean?

Before December 2013 it used to be 1tph Wolves-Birmingham-Euston and 1tph Scotland-Preston-Birmingham, however these were combined to form 1tph Scotland-Preston-Birmingham-Euston, leading to a reduction of 1tph between Wolves and New St: this is what I presume is being referred to. In answer to that question: not really. As far as I can see neither the departure has never originated from Wolves, nor do they run in the paths VT vacated (xx32 ex-Wolves I think).

 

[merlodlliw]

I'm wondering will the Service have originated from Central Rivers servicing works,something like the early morning Birmingham/Holyhead.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Before December 2013 it used to be 1tph Wolves-Birmingham-Euston and 1tph Scotland-Preston-Birmingham, however these were combined to form 1tph Scotland-Preston-Birmingham-Euston, leading to a reduction of 1tph between Wolves and New St: this is what I presume is being referred to. In answer to that question: not really. As far as I can see neither the departure has never originated from Wolves, nor do they run in the paths VT vacated (xx32 ex-Wolves I think).

That's exactly what I meant, thank you for the explanation. Shame we're not getting that service back.

 

[krus_aragon]

I'm wondering will the Service have originated from Central Rivers servicing works,something like the early morning Birmingham/Holyhead.

on Realtime Trains:

Morning up service comes ECS from Barton under Needwood. This unit appears to be timetabled to sit in p6 at Euston for an hour before returning to Shrewsbury.

Morning down service goes to Cotton Hill after terminating, and comes back to form the afternoon up service to Euston. Another unit forms the afternoon down service,and goes to Barton under Needwood for the night.

 

[louis97]

on Realtime Trains:

Morning up service comes ECS from Barton under Needwood. This unit appears to be timetabled to sit in p6 at Euston for an hour before returning to Shrewsbury.

Morning down service goes to Cotton Hill after terminating, and comes back to form the afternoon up service to Euston. Another unit forms the afternoon down service,and goes to Barton under Needwood for the night.

Note that in the morning the ECS from Barton under Needwood divides at Woverhampton, and then the set detached then attaches to service from Shrewsbury upon its return. The same happens in reverse with the evening service sets going to Barton under Needwood.

The middle of the day services, divide and attach at Birmingham with the set that detached then going to London and back before attaching again to the service from Shrewsbury.

 

[merlodlliw]

on Realtime Trains:

Morning up service comes ECS from Barton under Needwood. This unit appears to be timetabled to sit in p6 at Euston for an hour before returning to Shrewsbury.

Morning down service goes to Cotton Hill after terminating, and comes back to form the afternoon up service to Euston. Another unit forms the afternoon down service,and goes to Barton under Needwood for the night.

Thank you,I am now aware Barton under Needwood is the the village where Central Rivers operate.

 

[Class 92]

Are 221s not cleared for the Shrewsbury to Crewe line as the Sunday night empty stock runs via Wolverhampton to Crewe CS?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P51049/2014/12/21/advanced

 

[IrishDave]

Are 221s not cleared for the Shrewsbury to Crewe line as the Sunday night empty stock runs via Wolverhampton to Crewe CS?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P51049/2014/12/21/advanced

It's more likely that the (presumably Wolverhampton-based) Virgin drivers won't sign the direct route between Shrewsbury and Crewe.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's more likely that the (presumably Wolverhampton-based) Virgin drivers won't sign the direct route between Shrewsbury and Crewe.

The previous Voyager proposal (running via Stafford) did have ECS between Crewe and Shrewsbury direct.

 

[Class 92]

Will they not need it in case of diversions via Crewe?

 

[MCR247]

Probably easier to just cancel it

 

[craigybagel]

At the time the plans were looked at, no VT crews at any depot signed Shrewsbury. The original plan, with services running Crewe-Shrewsbury-Oxley Chord-Stafford, would have required crews (rumoured at the time to be Liverpool drivers and Wolverhampton TMs) to learn almost all of that route. AFAIK route learning did not start before those plans were abandoned.

The new plan, with trains running Shrewsbury-Wolverhampton, still requires route learning (now for Wolverhampton drivers and TM's I believe) between Shrewsbury and Wolves, but there's no in Virgin going to the expense of having it's crews learn Shrewsbury-Crewe direct just for a once a week ECS and for hypothetical diversions.

 

[dvboy]

Indeed, if the Wolves-Shrewsbury line gets blocked, I doubt they would divert in service, they'd just terminate at Wolverhampton and ECS anything stuck the wrong side

 

[Class 170101]

I doubt anything would be stuck at Shrewsbury on a planned basis. It will just be terminate start forward at Wolverhampton and make your own way to / from Shrewsbury.

 

[Class 92]

Or extend it to Crewe so passengers can catch Arriva from there onto Shrewsbury.

 

[The Planner]

They wouldnt do that, they would bin it at Wolves.

 

[tomuk]

You may be interested in the following article regarding the new London service.

http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2014/10/01/london-rail-link-blow-for-shropshire-commuters/

Unfortunately the Virgin service leaves 5 minutes before connecting services from both North and South Shropshire.

Could the problem be solved by sending both Voyagers to Shrewsbury saving the time needed to couple the pair back up at Wolverhampton allowing the train to leave Shrewsbury later?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Unfortunately the Virgin service leaves 5 minutes before connecting services from both North and South Shropshire.

The North Shropshire connection does not matter because it will be quicker via Crewe (as it has been for many years, not to mention the all-day frequency).

 

[Class 170101]

If by the north Shropshire connection you mean this
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C30356/2014/12/15/advanced
Then this service has a connection from Manchester Piccadilly at Crewe which would be broken if the above service departed earlier from Crewe to make a connection at Shrewsbury.

If by south Shropshire you mean this
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C30443/2014/12/15/advanced
I think you might struggle to find a path around Newport around the freights. Additionally given it departs at 04:35 I wonder whether that is an early sign on or a night turn.

 

[craigybagel]

If by the north Shropshire connection you mean this
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C30356/2014/12/15/advanced
Then this service has a connection from Manchester Piccadilly at Crewe which would be broken if the above service departed earlier from Crewe to make a connection at Shrewsbury.

A connection that is surprisingly popular.

If by south Shropshire you mean this
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C30443/2014/12/15/advanced
I think you might struggle to find a path around Newport around the freights. Additionally given it departs at 04:35 I wonder whether that is an early sign on or a night turn.

It's worked by a Cardiff crew from there to Shrewsbury, so it's an early sign on.

 

[merlodlliw]

You may be interested in the following article regarding the new London service.

http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2014/10/01/london-rail-link-blow-for-shropshire-commuters/

Unfortunately the Virgin service leaves 5 minutes before connecting services from both North and South Shropshire.

Could the problem be solved by sending both Voyagers to Shrewsbury saving the time needed to couple the pair back up at Wolverhampton allowing the train to leave Shrewsbury later?

Plus the VT runs six minutes behind the ATW,which calls at the exact same stations to Wolves, both are semi fast to Wolves as well,a kind of overkill and underkill for those from other areas,only that the ATW 158 is a return working from International, I am sure ATW would terminate it at Shrewsbury & may well in the future due to stock shortage, this occurred on the Wrexham line when VT appeared a few years ago then ATW terminated a Chester service at Wrexham, causing commuters to miss connections to Manchester.

 

[The Planner]

How could they cancel it? It will be in their SLC and track access contract.

 

[berneyarms]

I don't see how they can cancel it as it operates the 08:09 to Aberystwyth from Birmingham International.

 

[merlodlliw]

I don't see how they can cancel it as it operates the 08:09 to Aberystwyth from Birmingham International.

I appreciate the problem with the return working out of International,but anything can happen in the future, the ATW train in question(Chester/International) was a couple of years ago Chester/Maesteg,then switched to Birmingham.With ATWs desperation with stock shortage, this train must be being looked at certainly from next May.Plus two direct ATW Birmingham services are axed from December 2014, Holyhead 0514 axed & 0715 from Holyhead terminates at Crewe, with replacements on the International/Shrewsbury line.

 

[The Planner]

Not a chance of them binning that journey, it is too well used from International and provides a commuter service out of New St at 0824 to Wolves and Telford.

 

[berneyarms]

I appreciate the problem with the return working out of International,but anything can happen in the future, the ATW train in question(Chester/International) was a couple of years ago Chester/Maesteg,then switched to Birmingham.With ATWs desperation with stock shortage, this train must be being looked at certainly from next May.Plus two direct ATW Birmingham services are axed from December 2014, Holyhead 0514 axed & 0715 from Holyhead terminates at Crewe, with replacements on the International/Shrewsbury line.

I doubt many people are going to go to Birmingham via the route that both of those trains take from North Wales, given the exceptionally long nature of the route.

Why would anyone use the 05:14 from stations along North Wales to stations between Shrewsbury and Birmingham when they can stay 20 minutes longer in bed and take the 05:33, and connect at Shrewsbury?

The 05:14 really has two main purposes. The first is to link the North Wales with Chester, and the second is to then link Crewe and stations along the line to Shrewsbury with stations to Birmingham. That purpose is still being served - the 05:14 will still link North Wales with Chester but is diverted to Manchester, while a second train will still follow its path from Crewe to Birmingham.

With the second service at 07:15, anyone who does want to go stations between Shrewsbury and Birmingham can still take that train, connect at Chester into the 09:26 to Shrewsbury and the 10:32 to Birmingham.

The problem with your suggestion of cancelling the 05:30 Chester-Birmingham International between Shrewsbury and Birmingham International is that it would mean a significantly later arrival into Birmingham than at present (17 minutes later) and a missed station stop at Smethwick Galton Bridge. I don't really see either of those as being an option. Whatever about changing departure times (as the proposed replacement of the 07:47 from Wrexham by the 05:33 from Holyhead involves), changing arrival times in the morning peak adversely is a huge no-no.

Plus you still have to get an ATW train to Birmingham International from somewhere in order to operate the 08:09 return to Aberystwyth. I just can't see how you're going to do that.