Virgin train drivers

[luke1420]

Right this has been bugging me for a while because i can't get my head round how it properly works!

So as far as i am aware the work in each shift for a virgin train driver is set out in a sort of triangle E.G Manchester - Euston - New street and then travel as a passenger back to Manchester. Is that the way it works? i can understand it to be fair, it means driver can sign other route in a shift. But is this the same for every shift? if so does that mean each shift will start or end with the driver travailing as a passenger. Or is this just a couple of shift and most are just say Manchester - Euston - Manchester.

Just really cant get my head round how it works.

Thanks, Luke.

 

[455driver]

Why would the Manchester driver end up in Birmingham?
They will normally work a train back up to Manchester.

 

[irish_rail]

yes Luke, you are correct. They have a mix of diagrams as far as I am aware, some Manchester - London - Manchester, plus some for example Manchester -London - BHM - pass to Manchester etc.

This is common on many TOCs to improve variety for drivers, and to preserve route knowledge, for example at Plymouth, we do Plymouth pass to Bristol, drive to London, drive back to Bristol then pass to Plymouth, and lots of other similar type jobs.

 

[SkinnyDave]

yes Luke, you are correct. They have a mix of diagrams as far as I am aware, some Manchester - London - Manchester, plus some for example Manchester -London - BHM - pass to Manchester etc.

This is common on many TOCs to improve variety for drivers, and to preserve route knowledge, for example at Plymouth, we do Plymouth pass to Bristol, drive to London, drive back to Bristol then pass to Plymouth, and lots of other similar type jobs..

Plymouth really sounds like a great depot for drivers at FGW tbh

 

[Rich McLean]

Plymouth really sounds like a great depot for drivers at FGW tbh

That could be changing in the near future. I know Exeter HSS crews after the reshuffle will no longer sign North of Taunton if Mess Room chatter is to be believed

 

[SkinnyDave]

That could be changing in the near future. I know Exeter HSS crews after the reshuffle will no longer sign North of Taunton if Mess Room chatter is to be believed

Reshuffle? Do you mean with " integration" talks?

 

[Rich McLean]

Reshuffle? Do you mean with " integration" talks?

Yes. Changes to the routes which certain depots currently sign is on the cards, in order to save costs for route learning, and minimise passing on other services

 

[SkinnyDave]

Ah so aforementioned travelling from Ex or Plymouth up to Bristol then driving may be going then..
That's why Bristol HSS are possibly looking for a few more next year.

OP sorry for hijacking your thread regarding this there is a lot going in at FGW at the moment

 

[Boodiggy]

Right this has been bugging me for a while because i can't get my head round how it properly works!

So as far as i am aware the work in each shift for a virgin train driver is set out in a sort of triangle E.G Manchester - Euston - New street and then travel as a passenger back to Manchester. Is that the way it works? i can understand it to be fair, it means driver can sign other route in a shift. But is this the same for every shift? if so does that mean each shift will start or end with the driver travailing as a passenger. Or is this just a couple of shift and most are just say Manchester - Euston - Manchester.

Just really cant get my head round how it works.

Thanks, Luke.

There are many different turns at all depots via many different routes. Some jobs may be a simple there and back others may involve travelling pass somewhere and taking a train from there. Euston / Wolves / Preston drivers will do a lot of triangular working so a trip between Euston and Preston will be one way via Trent and one via West Midlands.

Euston drivers sign to Preston via Trent Valley and West Midlands, Manchester, Liverpool & Chester depending on links.

Wolves Drivers sign Preston via Trent and West Mids, Euston.

Preston Drivers sign Euston via Trent and West Mids, Glasgow and Edinburgh.

Manchester / Liverpool Sign to London via Trent and West Mids and the. North Wales Coast.

Glasgow / Edinburgh drivers will sign as far south as Preston.

There are diversions depots will sign such as Northampton Loop, Bescot, Alsager and many more.

Hope this helps

 

[SkinnyDave]

There are many different turns at all depots via many different routes. Some jobs may be a simple there and back others may involve travelling pass somewhere and taking a train from there. Euston / Wolves / Preston drivers will do a lot of triangular working so a trip between Euston and Preston will be one way via Trent and one via West Midlands.

Euston drivers sign to Preston via Trent Valley and West Midlands, Manchester, Liverpool & Chester depending on links.

Wolves Drivers sign Preston via Trent and West Mids, Euston.

Preston Drivers sign Euston via Trent and West Mids, Glasgow and Edinburgh.

Manchester / Liverpool Sign to London via Trent and West Mids and the. North Wales Coast.

Glasgow / Edinburgh drivers will sign as far south as Preston.

There are diversions depots will sign such as Northampton Loop, Bescot, Alsager and many more.

Hope this helps

I've heard that Edin/Glasgow drivers will eventually sign to Crewe?

 

[Boodiggy]

I've heard that too but I'm not sure how much truth is in it. It's only 50 miles and I think it is within the driving time.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I've heard that too but I'm not sure how much truth is in it. It's only 50 miles and I think it is within the driving time.

And there'll soon be the additional NW diversion routes (Huyton, Bolton).

 

[Class 170101]

Which depot signs Manchester to Golborne Jn and Manchester to Preston these days?

I would have thought a Manchester diagram could be MAN - EUS - BHM then PNB then BHM - EUS - MAN.

As for FGW surely Exeter not signing north of Taunton, to Bristol and thence London, if I understand correctly, seems odd as this would be diversionary route if B&H is blocked planned or unplanned, particularly since electrification possessions are coming with capacity restrictive SLW whilst this is being constructed.

 

[dk1]

Which depot signs Manchester to Golborne Jn and Manchester to Preston these days?

I would have thought a Manchester diagram could be MAN - EUS - BHM then PNB then BHM - EUS - MAN.

Allowing for PNBs that would not be feasible. For example 07.15 Man-Eus, 10.03 Eus-Bhm, 12.30 Bhm-Eus, 14.40 Eus-Man. I've allowed some flexibility but it's still tight & would be a controllers nightmare. Even that turn would have to be something like 06.55-16.55 the absolute max most drivers can be rostered.

 

[455driver]

yes Luke, you are correct. They have a mix of diagrams as far as I am aware, some Manchester - London - Manchester, plus some for example Manchester -London - BHM - pass to Manchester etc.

This is common on many TOCs to improve variety for drivers, and to preserve route knowledge, for example at Plymouth, we do Plymouth pass to Bristol, drive to London, drive back to Bristol then pass to Plymouth, and lots of other similar type jobs.

Which duties are these then?
PM me the duty numbers if you like and I will tell you who is working them today!
Example-
PLD2020 today is up on 1A89 and back on 1C96.
I cant find any which pass from Plymouth to Bristol, not that I have looked very hard so any info would be gratefully received and would of course not be divulged to anyone else.
Oh yesterday that driver was on 9502 duty.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That could be changing in the near future. I know Exeter HSS crews after the reshuffle will no longer sign North of Taunton if Mess Room chatter is to be believed

What?
Not even to Cogload?

If that is the case who is going to drive the sleepers when they are sent via Bristol?

 

[Starmill]

I remember speaking to a Manchester VT TM not so long ago. She said it was a fantastic job but there were some shifts she really didn't like.

For example, she did mention MAN - EUS, EUS - BHM, BHM - EUS, EUS - MAN. Her take on it was that at around 10 hours, that was too long and she'd be unable to give the best customer service possible on the last trip (EUS - MAN).

I asked specifically about Birmingham to Stafford which she said she signed as a diversionary route only, and also mentioned Liverpool and as far as Warrington on the mainline. I forgot to ask about Goldborne Jn - Manchester :/

 

[Rich McLean]

Which duties are these then?
PM me the duty numbers if you like and I will tell you who is working them today!
Example-
PLD2020 today is up on 1A89 and back on 1C96.
I cant find any which pass from Plymouth to Bristol, not that I have looked very hard so any info would be gratefully received and would of course not be divulged to anyone else.
Oh yesterday that driver was on 9502 duty.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


What?
Not even to Cogload?

If that is the case who is going to drive the sleepers when they are sent via Bristol?

No idea, I assume Plymouth and Padd HSS will take that on, but seems it is just mess room talk at the moment.

Will stay as is for now, but post IEP, only Plymouth, Penzance and London HSS Depots will sign HSTs. (57s by Plymouth)
Exeter will sign HSTs still between TAU and PZN, but will lose a lot of HSS work.
London HSS will sign to EXD and swap with Exeter HSS who will continue South.
Plymouth will sign PZN to London via B&H and the Mule,
Bristol will cover the IEPs via Bridgewater as far as Paignton (London HSS via both B&H and Bristol).
Cornwall Crews to sign up to Exeter

To be honest, I can't see much of this happening, it will lead to reduced flexibility, especially on Sundays.

 

[Class 170101]

For example, she did mention MAN - EUS, EUS - BHM, BHM - EUS, EUS - MAN. Her take on it was that at around 10 hours, that was too long and she'd be unable to give the best customer service possible on the last trip (EUS - MAN).

Not wishing to be controversial but I bet the same TM would like MAN - EUS, EUS - MAN (5 - 6 hrs) then book off. Some shifts are long and some are short.

 

[Starmill]

Not wishing to be controversial but I bet the same TM would like MAN - EUS, EUS - MAN (5 - 6 hrs) then book off. Some shifts are long and some are short.

That was precisely what was said! That shift with a mid-afternoon start.

 

[SkinnyDave]

No idea, I assume Plymouth and Padd HSS will take that on, but seems it is just mess room talk at the moment.

Will stay as is for now, but post IEP, only Plymouth, Penzance and London HSS Depots will sign HSTs. (57s by Plymouth)
Exeter will sign HSTs still between TAU and PZN, but will lose a lot of HSS work.
London HSS will sign to EXD and swap with Exeter HSS who will continue South.
Plymouth will sign PZN to London via B&H and the Mule,
Bristol will cover the IEPs via Bridgewater as far as Paignton (London HSS via both B&H and Bristol).
Cornwall Crews to sign up to Exeter

To be honest, I can't see much of this happening, it will lead to reduced flexibility, especially on Sundays.

That depend whether they get Sunday inside working week though which is being discussed

 

[1e10]

Allowing for PNBs that would not be feasible. For example 07.15 Man-Eus, 10.03 Eus-Bhm, 12.30 Bhm-Eus, 14.40 Eus-Man. I've allowed some flexibility but it's still tight & would be a controllers nightmare. Even that turn would have to be something like 06.55-16.55 the absolute max most drivers can be rostered.

Do maximum working hours vary between drivers?

 

[driver_m]

Which depot signs Manchester to Golborne Jn and Manchester to Preston these days?

I would have thought a Manchester diagram could be MAN - EUS - BHM then PNB then BHM - EUS - MAN.

Manchester and Preston sign those routes.
Can't do that route you describe as it is too long to fit in a diagram of 10hrs max.

 

[dk1]

Do maximum working hours vary between drivers?

We may be rostered a 10hr shift but not a minute more although & subject to the correct breaks throughout. Anything over that is subject to the driver agreeing unless it is due to late running of course.

 

[Class 170101]

Manchester and Preston sign those routes.
Can't do that route you describe as it is too long to fit in a diagram of 10hrs max.

I'm confused #post 16 above suggests otherwise

 

[Boodiggy]

I'm confused #post 16 above suggests otherwise

A drivers and a Train Managers roster are not the same.
The diagram shown in that post is for a TM and not for a driver.

 

[driver_m]

I'm confused #post 16 above suggests otherwise

A TM can do 11hrs, and don't have an official PNB like we do

 

[luke1420]

A TM can do 11hrs, and don't have an official PNB like we do

does this mean TM's can do a hole shift with no PNB?

 

[dk1]

does this mean TM's can do a hole shift with no PNB?

Probably something to do with the fact they can use onboard facilities during the journey. I have known many conductors a tad p'd off that even though we are on the same diagram, i get relieved but they don't.

 

[luke1420]

Probably something to do with the fact they can use onboard facilities during the journey. I have known many conductors a tad p'd off that even though we are on the same diagram, i get relieved but they don't.

so do some TM's say work all the way from Euston to Glasgow with no change in Preston. or do TM's still change there?

 

[driver_m]

so do some TM's say work all the way from Euston to Glasgow with no change in Preston. or do TM's still change there?

No. They bail out at preston same as the drivers. Only caterers from Scotland go through