Virgin to sue Network Rail

[Pumbaa]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22814406

Network Rail faces action over late and cancelled trains

Network Rail missed all its punctuality targets for England and Wales last year, rail regulator figures reveal.

Some 361,000 train services in London and the South East and 70,500 national journeys were cancelled or late.

The Office of Rail Regulation (ORR) figures come after the company's bosses were awarded bonuses equivalent to 17% of their salaries.

Virgin Trains says it will take action against Network Rail, claiming a breach of contract over punctuality....

Virgin are to sue NR over the continued poor performance of the WCML and their seeming inability and unwillingness to do anything about it.

 

[WillPS]

Oh good. I wonder how much of VRG's total profits from the day of privatisation can be attributed to "settlements" with Network Rail?

 

[dysonsphere]

Hmmm that link goes to the FT site which you have to register for. Just to let people know.

 

[Brunel]

That will be an interesting case. Could set an expensive precedent (for the taxpayer nee Government) if Virgin 'win'.

 

[Morden Via CHX]

http://opensource.sys-con.com/node/2690939

(Article in full here for those who don't subscribe)

 

[shedman]

"We have spent hundreds of millions of pounds on a fleet of reliable trains ". So hard done to Virgin don't lease their fleet. Unfortunately I have no sympathy for the company. They are great at PR and selling their brand but nothing is their fault. Its just a shame Network Rail can't rid the West Coast of every other TOC/FOC so Virgin can be left alone to play trains

 

[YorkshireBear]

They say 70 percent are network rail. This includes cable theft, suicide and weather related problems. Hardly fair to sue them for that. And if they sue network rail I hope they put track access charges up to pay for the punctuality improvements.

 

[Geezertronic]

"We have spent hundreds of millions of pounds on a fleet of reliable trains ". So hard done to Virgin don't lease their fleet. Unfortunately I have no sympathy for the company. They are great at PR and selling their brand but nothing is their fault. Its just a shame Network Rail can't rid the West Coast of every other TOC/FOC so Virgin can be left alone to play trains

This quote is quite important to read though:

But VRG today called for any financial penalties to be in the form of customer improvements, and not in fines paid to the Treasury that remove investment from rail

 

[gordonthemoron]

regarding cable theft, how on earth did thieves manage to steal cable from WCML in the Watford area in the middle of a weekday? This happened in the last two weeks. I believe there are 9 virgin services an hour in each direction 7 London Midland and 1 Southern, plus freight

 

[itsonlyme]

Well done Virgin.

It is about time that someone took network rail to task. I for one am totally fed up with having to plan extra time to cover for non working signals, fallen down overhead, broken rails etc. on a line that has recently had millions of pounds spent on it.

And, yes, I know things must go wrong occasionally , but occasionally - not day in, day out, and sometimes 3 /4 times a day.

 

[Searle]

But VRG today called for any financial penalties to be in the form of customer improvements, and not in fines paid to the Treasury that remove investment from rail.

Isn't that what Network Rail is spending money on anyway? Am I missing something here? :neutral:

 

[455driver]

I didnt know Virmin owned the pendos, I mean if

"We have spent hundreds of millions of pounds on a fleet of reliable trains ".

Is true then they must "own" them, which of course they dont!

its just more spin from the King of spin himself, he realises his group will soon be out of rail franchising for ever and wants to appear to be the poor hard done by one, again!

TBH its good ridence to Virgin group, it is because of them we have some of the most claustophobic trains ever with their " we are going to use our aircraft designers to give you the best trains ever" headlines when they gave us nothing of the sort.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Virgin doesn't have any aircraft designers either

 

[DarloRich]

Well done Virgin.

It is about time that someone took network rail to task. I for one am totally fed up with having to plan extra time to cover for non working signals, fallen down overhead, broken rails etc. on a line that has recently had millions of pounds spent on it.

And, yes, I know things must go wrong occasionally , but occasionally - not day in, day out, and sometimes 3 /4 times a day.

Whilst I am sure you are an expert on this some of us are not. Perhaps you could explain to us how you could solve all of the issues quickly and in the cheapest yet safest manner and in accordance with all of the safety rules imposed on the rail industry while all the time continuing to run the most intensively worked railway line in Europe.

Perhaps you could also set out how you can cram even more work into the ever shortening possession window that NR are granted by the sainted Virgin (amongst others) and perhaps suggest where money can be found to procure more expensive plant and machinery to aid this programme of works.

I look forward to seeing your plan.

 

[michael769]

They say 70 percent are network rail. This includes cable theft, suicide and weather related problems. Hardly fair to sue them for that.

Why not? While it is true that NR cannot control the weather or the public they do have control over how well their network is able to cope with bad weather and they do have control over the security of their property.

 

[455driver]

Virgin doesn't have any aircraft designers either

Aircraft INTERIOR designers then! :roll:

 

[SkinnyDave]

I didnt know Virmin owned the pendos, I mean if



Is true then they must "own" them, which of course they dont!

its just more spin from the King of spin himself, he realises his group will soon be out of rail franchising for ever and wants to appear to be the poor hard done by one, again!

TBH its good ridence to Virgin group, it is because of them we have some of the most claustophobic trains ever with their " we are going to use our aircraft designers to give you the best trains ever" headlines when they gave us nothing of the sort.

Do agree with most of this but at the same time where would we have been if they didn't kick up a fuss after losing WC.. Another East Coast fiasco in a few years would have been my guess.
I wouldn't bet against them winning ECML tbh

 

[YorkshireBear]

DarloRich raises a good point. Virgin want longer and longer operating times. This is at expense of maintenance done to keep the railway in a good operation. At watford virgin are making networkr rail work extra hard to maintain a TSR at 80 not 50. Thats effort and money removed from other people.

 

[Requeststop]

Here we go again, the bearded winger off to the courts yet again to sue. Typical.

I hope he is made to pay the full cost of the courts and the public defense during any trial.

 

[Geezertronic]

DarloRich raises a good point. Virgin want longer and longer operating times. This is at expense of maintenance done to keep the railway in a good operation. At watford virgin are making networkr rail work extra hard to maintain a TSR at 80 not 50. Thats effort and money removed from other people.

Is it Virgin Trains or the customer? Let's be honest, if the trains are not running then the customer only complains about the bus substitute

Here we go again, the bearded winger off to the courts yet again to sue. Typical.

I hope he is made to pay the full cost of the courts and the public defense during any trial.

So what input does Richard Branson have on the day to day running of Virgin Trains then?

 

[cle]

Isn't that what Network Rail is spending money on anyway? Am I missing something here? :neutral:

I think the penalties are secondary to the admission of blame. But you're right, it would be taking NR money and sending it to the Treasury, which nobody wants (except the Treasury). Good on VT for mentioning it - even though it will be ignored.

And can people drop the boring Bearded One and PR Stunt crap when talking about Virgin? It's so clichéd (almost as bad as 'Tony Bliar') and actually doesn't reflect his involvement at all. Tokenist at best.

 

[Dave1987]

I think the penalties are secondary to the admission of blame. But you're right, it would be taking NR money and sending it to the Treasury, which nobody wants (except the Treasury). Good on VT for mentioning it - even though it will be ignored.

And can people drop the boring Bearded One and PR Stunt crap when talking about Virgin? It's so clichéd (almost as bad as 'Tony Bliar') and actually doesn't reflect his involvement at all. Tokenist at best.

Sorry but Branson is all too keen to use the media coverage to his advantage with regards to his reputation and brand image but hates it when things are ever put back on him and his companies. This is complete rubbish and yet another PR stunt to try and make up for their appalling ppm (below 50%!) trying to push all the bane into Network Rails court! Every TOC could take NR to court over signal failures and delays if your logic is imposed. Can't believe Virgin are airing their dirty laundry with NR in public just for a bit more PR!!

 

[carriageline]

Why not? While it is true that NR cannot control the weather or the public they do have control over how well their network is able to cope with bad weather and they do have control over the security of their property.

The weather, granted, shouldn't really affect a railway, to a degree. But I don't know much about the WCML fiasco.

But security, how do you propose they increase security? Genuine question?

 

[LexyBoy]

I didnt know Virmin owned the pendos, I mean if

"We have spent hundreds of millions of pounds on a fleet of reliable trains ".

Is true then they must "own" them, which of course they dont!

Why do you say that? Pendolini carriages cost ~£37k per month per diagrammed vehicle. Take 48 x 9-car diagrams and I make that £191.8 million per year, so approaching £2 billion spent on them since introduction.

Spin of course, but Virgin do seem to have "spent hundreds of millions" on them (but of course still don't own them). I seem to recall NR threw a few notes in the direction of Virgin's line too...

 

[Cherry_Picker]

regarding cable theft, how on earth did thieves manage to steal cable from WCML in the Watford area in the middle of a weekday? This happened in the last two weeks. I believe there are 9 virgin services an hour in each direction 7 London Midland and 1 Southern, plus freight

I'd imagine they weren't dressed in stripy jumpers and facemasks. I still think a lot of cable thievery is carried out by people who work, or have worked for the railway. It's quite easy to be hidden in plain sight, people manage it in all walks of life and on the railway it is also true. A gang of blokes dressed in orange vests with a white transit van parked nearby? Train drivers will see that half a dozen times a day, every day, so do they report every gang they see in order to catch the fraction of one percent who are cable thieves?

 

[Pumbaa]

Here we go again, the bearded winger off to the courts yet again to sue. Typical.

I hope he is made to pay the full cost of the courts and the public defense during any trial.

This is nothing to do with Beardy. This is being spearheaded by Gibb after the time he spent with NR on secondment, the report he wrote and has since been pretty much whitewashed.

Ordinarily, I would otherwise agree with you.

 

[Trog]

This is nothing to do with Beardy. This is being spearheaded by Gibb after the time he spent with NR on secondment, the report he wrote and has since been pretty much whitewashed.

Interesting as the millions of pounds worrth of fencing he suggested has already started going up.

 

[DarloRich]

This is nothing to do with Beardy. This is being spearheaded by Gibb after the time he spent with NR on secondment, the report he wrote and has since been pretty much whitewashed.

Ordinarily, I would otherwise agree with you.

funny that because it seemed to have been accepted and being worked up into an implementation plan last I heard. Perhaps there was some other report.......

(report here: http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/wcs-reliability-programme-191112.pdf )

 

[snail]

I didnt know Virmin owned the pendos.

You need a better spell checker.

 

[Qwerty133]

Sorry but Branson is all too keen to use the media coverage to his advantage with regards to his reputation and brand image but hates it when things are ever put back on him and his companies. This is complete rubbish and yet another PR stunt to try and make up for their appalling ppm (below 50%!) trying to push all the bane into Network Rails court! Every TOC could take NR to court over signal failures and delays if your logic is imposed. Can't believe Virgin are airing their dirty laundry with NR in public just for a bit more PR!!

Where do you get that ppm figure from as there website states 87.5%