Virgin to Blackpool/Shrewsbury, 2 years on.

[dk1]

Its now nearly two years since Virgin Trains re-introduced direct services using Voyagers to/from Blackpool & Shrewsbury. The latter seems to have performed better loadings wise thanks to its more convenient timings & twice daily (except Sunday) serving to Shropshire.

I note this afternoon that the 15:24 up to Euston is full & standing on departure from Shrewsbury which is very surprising & yet pleasing at the same time that it is such a success, although those boarding at Telford may not see it that way.

We hear very little of the Blackpool service. I find its very early departure up road only really good for business travel & although the 16:33 down is far more sociable, it hardly serves the tourist market. Rumours have been going on for years that after electrification Pendolinos may serve the town & as part of an enhanced service from Preston to speed up Anglo-Scottish trains.

Just wondered if anybody else had observed how these useful extensions where performing.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

It's hard to judge either really from observation, it's very easy to say that the Shrewsbury service is full and standing departing Shrewsbury or before Wolves, but if 95% of those have decamped by Birmingham International then it's a different story, all that shows is that Shropshire could probably do with more trains to Wolves and Birmingham (which is specified in the new West Midlands franchise I believe), similarly if the majority of passengers to / from Blackpool have left by Wigan or Warrington then again it might just be a case of it being a covenient train for locals, not London traffic. I will say though, I was on the afternoon Shrewsbury service off Wolves about six weeks ago and it was reasonably loaded, First had about eight in too. I did the evening Blackpool a few days later and that was a lot more lightly loaded, I suspect that one really is a case of mass exoduses at Warrington, Wigan and Preston, and local punters from there onwards. I'd say ten or fifteen tops alighted with me at Kirkham & Wesham.

I'm happy to be proved wrong on this one!

 

[Gareth Marston]

Its now nearly two years since Virgin Trains re-introduced direct services using Voyagers to/from Blackpool & Shrewsbury. The latter seems to have performed better loadings wise thanks to its more convenient timings & twice daily (except Sunday) serving to Shropshire.

I note this afternoon that the 15:24 up to Euston is full & standing on departure from Shrewsbury which is very surprising & yet pleasing at the same time that it is such a success, although those boarding at Telford may not see it that way.

We hear very little of the Blackpool service. I find its very early departure up road only really good for business travel & although the 16:33 down is far more sociable, it hardly serves the tourist market. Rumours have been going on for years that after electrification Pendolinos may serve the town & as part of an enhanced service from Preston to speed up Anglo-Scottish trains.


Just wondered if anybody else had observed how these useful extensions where performing.

People have always hated changing trains at Birmingham New St and the extra trains were introduced the same time as rebuilding New St happened so it's no surprise that they have been well used. ATW also have a very poor reputation on the Shrewsbury to Birmingham corridor whilst the bad punctuality and Wolverhampton turnaround have gone, the overcrowding problem remains and the route is always short formed when ATw have rolling stock shortages as they opt to keep services going.

 

[dk1]

I note an Aberystwyth service arrives at 15:17 then follows today so would imagine those for London have a superb connection & anyone with an open ticket changes for a quicker service to the WMs.

Virgin did state at the start that dedicated crews would work Shropshire services to build a rapour with regular passengers but didn't hear anything similar for Blackpool.

 

[6Gman]

The Down Blackpool is a very handy extra service for getting from Stafford to Crewe (otherwise we only have 3tph ).

However it's usually very lightly loaded even on a Friday.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Virgin did state at the start that dedicated crews would work Shropshire services to build a rapour with regular passengers ...

Or because that's how the links worked out at Wolves depot?

 

[dk1]

The Down Blackpool is a very handy extra service for getting from Stafford to Crewe (otherwise we only have 3tph ).

However it's usually very lightly loaded even on a Friday.

Such a shame. You'd think it would be well loaded with stag/hens if reasonably priced AP fares where available or if it's well marketed. Then again 5 coaches out of Euston at 16:33 & serving towns enroute isn't going to have too much spare capacity.

 

[Whistler40145]

I wonder what the loadings of the Blackpool service would be following completion of Electrification and transfer over to a Pendolino?

 

[neilb62]

Or because that's how the links worked out at Wolves depot?

Only No3 Drivers link at Preston sign Blackpool (30 Drivers but we have vacancies).
All Pn TM's go there though...

 

[Ianno87]

Such a shame. You'd think it would be well loaded with stag/hens if reasonably priced AP fares where available or if it's well marketed. Then again 5 coaches out of Euston at 16:33 & serving towns enroute isn't going to have too much spare capacity.

It's effectively an early peak commuter train from Euston to Rugby and Stafford. People for Crewe can get the 1640 and arrive Crewe sooner, whereas Warrington, Wigan and Preston are now well served by the 1630 anglo-scot.

So it's not clear what its market really *is* north of Stafford, whilst south of Stafford it is possibly too well loaded (even if not heavily loaded) with season tickets and full whack Anytime Returns to contemplate filling it up with cheap Advances.

 

[dk1]

It's effectively an early peak commuter train from Euston to Rugby and Stafford. People for Crewe can get the 1640 and arrive Crewe sooner, whereas Warrington, Wigan and Preston are now well served by the 1630 anglo-scot.

So it's not clear what its market really *is* north of Stafford, whilst south of Stafford it is possibly too well loaded (even if not heavily loaded) with season tickets and full whack Anytime Returns to contemplate filling it up with cheap Advances.

It does appear to be the operator making an effort but only in marginal times as convenient. Can't say I'd do anything different if I was planning things. There simply isn't enough suitable rolling stock at the moment.

 

[the101]

It's effectively an early peak commuter train from Euston to Rugby and Stafford.

I got the afternoon Blackpool train not too many months ago. It was reasonably loaded out of Euston, but emptied out a great deal at Rugby. From then on anyone boarding could easily have got two seats or even a table to themselves in standard.

 

[Mordac]

I got the afternoon Blackpool train not too many months ago. It was reasonably loaded out of Euston, but emptied out a great deal at Rugby. From then on anyone boarding could easily have got two seats or even a table to themselves in standard.

Was on that train from Rugby to Preston a few weeks ago. Can confirm is was very lightly loaded, at least on coach C (unreserved coach, which isn't representative).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's hard to judge either really from observation, it's very easy to say that the Shrewsbury service is full and standing departing Shrewsbury or before Wolves, but if 95% of those have decamped by Birmingham International then it's a different story, all that shows is that Shropshire could probably do with more trains to Wolves and Birmingham (which is specified in the new West Midlands franchise I believe), similarly if the majority of passengers to / from Blackpool have left by Wigan or Warrington then again it might just be a case of it being a covenient train for locals, not London traffic. I will say though, I was on the afternoon Shrewsbury service off Wolves about six weeks ago and it was reasonably loaded, First had about eight in too. I did the evening Blackpool a few days later and that was a lot more lightly loaded, I suspect that one really is a case of mass exoduses at Warrington, Wigan and Preston, and local punters from there onwards. I'd say ten or fifteen tops alighted with me at Kirkham & Wesham.

Some of the Shrewsbury services combine with Scotland-Euston services at Wolverhampton, so it's impossible to assess overall profitability of the Salop service individually.
The morning up Blackpool combines with a Holyhead service at Crewe, so again that affects economics.
It does run ECS from Crewe (and back at night) which doesn't sound clever.
They all have busy diagrams for the rest of the day.
The 221s cover huge mileages every day (390s even more).

 

[SS4]

Do we know how many of the Shropshire passengers are using it to travel to the West Midlands? That's not a bad thing of course but if it's true then surely Shrewsbury to Birmingham needs increasing

 

[Gareth Marston]

Do we know how many of the Shropshire passengers are using it to travel to the West Midlands? That's not a bad thing of course but if it's true then surely Shrewsbury to Birmingham needs increasing

VT put something out a while back quoted in local press that they had got 195K London users in first year since introduction from Shrewsbury.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I note an Aberystwyth service arrives at 15:17 then follows today so would imagine those for London have a superb connection & anyone with an open ticket changes for a quicker service to the WMs.

Virgin did state at the start that dedicated crews would work Shropshire services to build a rapour with regular passengers but didn't hear anything similar for Blackpool.

In theory anyway but the 1330 ex AYW and and 1137 ex PWL can lose time 2 or 3 times a week. Also the AP fares are not available on VT to Birmingham. The bulk of the Cambrian to London traffic is AM away from Mid Wales so VT's not much use due to their times the 1524 too late and the 0639 has no connection.

 

[Bald Rick]

Such a shame. You'd think it would be well loaded with stag/hens if reasonably priced AP fares where available or if it's well marketed. Then again 5 coaches out of Euston at 16:33 & serving towns enroute isn't going to have too much spare capacity.

There really isn't a big market for Stag / Hen nights to Blackpool from the London area!

 

[dk1]

There really isn't a big market for Stag / Hen nights to Blackpool from the London area!

I would say that VT should perhaps build up this market but as someone working as Traincrew, that is not a group of people we would do well to encourage. Sadly most are loud, rude & totally self absorbed.

 

[sd0733]

VT put something out a while back quoted in local press that they had got 195K London users in first year since introduction from Shrewsbury.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


In theory anyway but the 1330 ex AYW and and 1137 ex PWL can lose time 2 or 3 times a week. Also the AP fares are not available on VT to Birmingham. The bulk of the Cambrian to London traffic is AM away from Mid Wales so VT's not much use due to their times the 1524 too late and the 0639 has no connection.

195000 users doesn't sound very realistic to me for one year, that's around 500 per day, 250 per train basically filling it from Shrewsbury alone.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

There really isn't a big market for Stag / Hen nights to Blackpool from the London area!

Yet plenty from Glasgow to Blackpool (and Liverpool).

 

[Gareth Marston]

195000 users doesn't sound very realistic to me for one year, that's around 500 per day, 250 per train basically filling it from Shrewsbury alone.

Not 195K on direct but 80K which works out at c60 per service. Articles date Dec 15 http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2015/12/14/watch-sir-richard-branson-praises-shropshire-to-london-service-on-its-first-year/

Mr Stanton said over the year to date, a total of 195,000 people had travelled from Shrewsbury, Wellington and Telford to the capital, an increase of 19 per cent compared to a year ago.

Not all of these will have used the direct service, but Mr Stanton said it has made a major contribution to the increase in customers, with around 80,000 passengers using the new link.
More on this story:

Of the 195,000 passengers, 60 per cent of them got on at Shrewsbury, a 23 per cent increase compared to a year ago, about 30 per cent got on at Telford, a 10 per cent rise, and the remaining 10 per cent boarded at Wellington – an increase of about a quarter.

Read more at http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/...ervice-on-its-first-year/#AHIJcZIS26xrjqZ8.99

 

[sd0733]

Not 195K on direct but 80K which works out at c60 per service. Articles date Dec 15 http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2015/12/14/watch-sir-richard-branson-praises-shropshire-to-london-service-on-its-first-year/

Ah I see, yes that makes perfect sense then!

 

[the sniper]

The morning up Blackpool combines with a Holyhead service at Crewe, so again that affects economics.
It does run ECS from Crewe (and back at night) which doesn't sound clever.

The ECS move from Blackpool to Central Rivers has always seemed like a wasted opportunity to me, particularly during the Summer. If they ran that in service down to BHM it'd provide a handy fast train home to many WCML stations after a day out. I went to Blackpool earlier this year. Going out, changing at Preston was fine, but coming back I just wanted to get home as quickly as possible. It was irritating having to change and hang around at Preston knowing that ECS move existed around the same time... Between September and November they could run it back a little bit later to try and attract some of the illuminations traffic.

I appreciate it'd require them needing more than a Driver for it beyond Preston, but I can't imagine it'd require a massive shake up in train crew diagramming to man it with Wolves crew from Preston to BHM. It'd just have to encourage enough new revenue to cover the TM and crew presence.

 

[Deafdoggie]

The ECS move from Blackpool to Central Rivers has always seemed like a wasted opportunity to me, particularly during the Summer. If they ran that in service down to BHM it'd provide a handy fast train home to many WCML stations after a day out. I went to Blackpool earlier this year. Going out, changing at Preston was fine, but coming back I just wanted to get home as quickly as possible. It was irritating having to change and hang around at Preston knowing that ECS move existed around the same time... Between September and November they could run it back a little bit later to try and attract some of the illuminations traffic.

I appreciate it'd require them needing more than a Driver for it beyond Preston, but I can't imagine it'd require a massive shake up in train crew diagramming to man it with Wolves crew from Preston to BHM. It'd just have to encourage enough new revenue to cover the TM and crew presence.

It stables at Crewe not Central Rivers. I don't think VT have any train crew at Crewe, which might be the issue. It is odd that Arriva run the stabling point at Crewe, and Virgin use it, but Arriva CrossCountry do not! I guess it is down to train crew again.

Slightly off topic, but Northern run empty units back and forth to Crewe to each day, so another train crew issue. Does seem Crewe needs crew!

 

[PHILIPE]

It stables at Crewe not Central Rivers. I don't think VT have any train crew at Crewe, which might be the issue. It is odd that Arriva run the stabling point at Crewe, and Virgin use it, but Arriva CrossCountry do not! I guess it is down to train crew again.

Slightly off topic, but Northern run empty units back and forth to Crewe to each day, so another train crew issue. Does seem Crewe needs crew!

No. It runs to Central Rivers. here:-

www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y82990/2016/11/16/advanced

Next week it's running to Crewe only, but only under STP arrangements. The morning one runs ECS from Crewe although long term starting Preston.

 

[Chester1]

It will be interesting to see what franchise bidders do with Blackpool services in relation to Grand Central services starting in a couple of years. They only have off peak paths which would make extra peak services appealing but probably destroys the business case for a regular services in addition to using up 6 paths each way.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It will be interesting to see what franchise bidders do with Blackpool services in relation to Grand Central services starting in a couple of years. They only have off peak paths which would make extra peak services appealing but probably destroys the business case for a regular services in addition to using up 6 paths each way.

There was also the Bolton service which Virgin planned.
Trouble is it all needs new tilting stock.

 

[Magicake]

I use the Down Blackpool regularly from Rugby. It's fantastically useful for me being the only fast train to the north west to stop at Rugby but it is not heavily loaded at all so I can't imagine many people are using it to Blackpool.

 

[craigybagel]

It stables at Crewe not Central Rivers. I don't think VT have any train crew at Crewe, which might be the issue. It is odd that Arriva run the stabling point at Crewe, and Virgin use it, but Arriva CrossCountry do not! I guess it is down to train crew again.

Slightly off topic, but Northern run empty units back and forth to Crewe to each day, so another train crew issue. Does seem Crewe needs crew!

No Virgin crew at Crewe thought it's been rumored fit years that they'll set up a depot. At the moment there are drivers there from several depots every night moving Voyagers on and off LNWR. At least one member of the Arriva group, ATW, finds good use for LNWR.

Only No3 Drivers link at Preston sign Blackpool (30 Drivers but we have vacancies).
All Pn TM's go there though...

There are 3 drivers links at Preston now? I thought there were only 2.....

 

[neilb62]

There are 3 drivers links at Preston now? I thought there were only 2.....

There have been 3 for a couple of years now specifically to accommodate the Blackpool work. No2 Link was split in two.