Virgin / Stagecoach win East Coast

[LNW-GW Joint]

With the exception of a very easy to use booking engine and online discounts, what is the reality?

On-line sales are still in the minority, aren't they, behind walk-up and seasons?

 

[tbtc]

A few comments:

Firstly, the idea of a London - Manchester - Glasgow service is a non-starter. Whilst the London - Birmingham - Glasgow service can dwell in a New Street platform for a good five minutes, you're going to struggle at 13/14 at Manchester Piccadilly - possibly one of the reasons why XC gave the "via Manchester" route up?

Also, whilst Birmingham - Glasgow needed a double Voyager on many journeys (even before the service was combined with the "EBW"), I think that a nine/eleven coach Pendolini on Manchester - Glasgow is going to be overkill.

And, perhaps more importantly, how did you manage to suggest this "through" service without unleashing an argument about removing direct services to Manchester Airport from Carlisle/ Glasgow/ Edinburgh etc? :eek: Every time I suggest reducing any trains to Manchester Airport I'm scolded for trying to reduce the importance of this amazing Airport (and forcing Scottish passengers to use their own Airports etc etc)...

Secondly, I'm not going to lose much sleep over the ending of free train tickets - it's nice to have these perks, but given how busy the railway is, I don't think that it's essential to give away tickets on busy trains for "free".

Don't get me wrong, I understand the need for "loyalty" programmes on some brands (I've got more "loyalty" cards from High Street retailers than fit in my wallet...), but I'm more interested in the railway being a railway - hard to get worked up about "rewards", sorry.

Lastly, nice to see this thread moving away from the conspiracy theory stuff about Stagecoach/ Virgin and not getting into discussion about trivia (e.g. "what colour will the seats be") - there's some very interesting comments on this thread.

 

[Deerfold]

Secondly, I'm not going to lose much sleep over the ending of free train tickets - it's nice to have these perks, but given how busy the railway is, I don't think that it's essential to give away tickets on busy trains for "free".

I'm not going to lose much sleep. But nor am I going to feel the need to use their website for everything except EMT advance tickets as I do now.

In my experience the trains I got free tickets on weren't very busy.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the need for "loyalty" programmes on some brands (I've got more "loyalty" cards from High Street retailers than fit in my wallet...), but I'm more interested in the railway being a railway - hard to get worked up about "rewards", sorry.

And I don't bother with any of the supermarket loyalty cards - and swap between them all the time, but did bother with EC Rewards as it was actualy possible to build up to something worth having.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Latest rumours are that TPE North electrifcation has been delayed beyond 2018 completion date (possibly up to 2021) so any new build of EMU would be completely different to the 350's on Scottish sevices. In those circumstances it would make sense for TPE to have a completely new class of EMU for all electric services and the small sub fleet of 10x 350's to be cascaded to the new proposed West Coast Connect franchise who will operate commuter services on the WCML (assuming the regional West Midlands services are split from London Midland and devolved to Centro).

The Feb 2015 Modern Railways mentions the 2021 date for TPE wires, and also hints at 125mph bi-mode stock being specified for TPE.

 

[adrock1976]

Some but not all. The former Dundee-Penzance service went via the ECML, while the Aberdeen-Plymouth 3 hours later went via the WCML with a reversal at Edinburgh.

If my mind is not playing tricks on me, I believe this service was "The Devon Scot" that was operated by an Intercity 125 HST.

In peace

Adam

 

[MidlandMainlie]

A few comments:

Firstly, the idea of a London - Manchester - Glasgow service is a non-starter. Whilst the London - Birmingham - Glasgow service can dwell in a New Street platform for a good five minutes, you're going to struggle at 13/14 at Manchester Piccadilly - possibly one of the reasons why XC gave the "via Manchester" route up?

Isn't Manchester Picadiily getting 2 extra platforms (15/16) as part of Nothern Hub?

Also, whilst Birmingham - Glasgow needed a double Voyager on many journeys (even before the service was combined with the "EBW"), I think that a nine/eleven coach Pendolini on Manchester - Glasgow is going to be overkill.

Better Intercity Stock should lead to an increase in passengers (how many 350 diagrams currently double up?) and why should Birmingham-Scotland need 10 coaches but Manchester-Scotland need less are less people traveling between Mancheter Scotland, his many travel from intermediate stations between Birmingham and Scotland?

 

[Starmill]

A few comments:

Firstly, the idea of a London - Manchester - Glasgow service is a non-starter. Whilst the London - Birmingham - Glasgow service can dwell in a New Street platform for a good five minutes, you're going to struggle at 13/14 at Manchester Piccadilly - possibly one of the reasons why XC gave the "via Manchester" route up?

The dwell time has to be at Manchester Piccadilly? Why?

Also, whilst Birmingham - Glasgow needed a double Voyager on many journeys (even before the service was combined with the "EBW"), I think that a nine/eleven coach Pendolini on Manchester - Glasgow is going to be overkill.

Really? If they have 3 First Class coaches they only have 6 standard coaches. When 8 car trains run they frequently have most seats taken.

And, perhaps more importantly, how did you manage to suggest this "through" service without unleashing an argument about removing direct services to Manchester Airport from Carlisle/ Glasgow/ Edinburgh etc? :eek: Every time I suggest reducing any trains to Manchester Airport I'm scolded for trying to reduce the importance of this amazing Airport (and forcing Scottish passengers to use their own Airports etc etc)...[/QUOTE]

If it went through to London, that might would open up more journey opportunities than going to Manchester Airport.

Lastly, nice to see this thread moving away from the conspiracy theory stuff about Stagecoach/ Virgin and not getting into discussion about trivia (e.g. "what colour will the seats be") - there's some very interesting comments on this thread.

It's not for you to judge the quality of this thread. Why should you be able to trivialise discussion of design, interiors or liveries? Everything has it's place.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Better Intercity Stock should lead to an increase in passengers (how many 350 diagrams currently double up?) and why should Birmingham-Scotland need 10 coaches but Manchester-Scotland need less are less people traveling between Mancheter Scotland, his many travel from intermediate stations between Birmingham and Scotland?

It isn't Birmingham-Scotland any more - it's also a direct service to Scotland from intermediate stations south of Warrington on the WCML plus additional passengers from most of the stations served by the Manchester trains. So logically there is a bit more demand. Nonetheless I think most Manchester-Scotland trains need to be 6x23m or 8x20m.

Also don't forget the amount of wasted space in a Pendolino compared with a 350. A quick Google says an 8-car 350/3 (can't find a figure for the /4, but there's maybe 6 seats fewer per 4-car set due to the 2+1 first class) has 460 seats, while a 9-car Pendolino has 439, and an 11-car 589.

Neil

 

[johnnychips]

Also don't forget the amount of wasted space in a Pendolino compared with a 350. A quick Google says an 8-car 350/3 (can't find a figure for the /4, but there's maybe 6 seats fewer per 4-car set due to the 2+1 first class) has 460 seats, while a 9-car Pendolino has 439, and an 11-car 589.

Neil

Is wasted space more legroom or luggage space or less useful things like door and toilet layouts? Not being sarcastic, just interested.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The dwell time has to be at Manchester Piccadilly? Why?

It's the halfway house if you like of the two services you are combining and most likely the biggest intermediate amount of alighting and boarding - doing it anywhere aside from there either gives extended journey times to one section (say an ideal recovery dwell is 5-7 mins, that means either Manchester-Scotland gets longer or Euston-Manchester, neither of which is ideal): it also creates a very comfortable allowance for the vast passenger flows you could encounter (from what I see of New St at peak time you can be a good 4-5 mins unloading then reloading a 221 for example).

Assuming you were to extend one of the via Stokes to Scotland, that in effect leaves you with either a wait at Stockport (probably not ideal when in effect you only have two northbound through platforms) or Preston, which could probably comfortably take it on 4 or 5, but leads to longer Manchester-Scotland journey times...

The current northbound Euston-Birmi-Scotland gets it about right: a 7 minute wait at New St and that's it. The southbound has an incredibly annoying 13 minute wait at Wolves, leaving us Scotland-Birmi regulars with longer journey times than since god only knows. Even LM between Crewe and New St is quicker now IIRC.

If it went through to London, that might would open up more journey opportunities than going to Manchester Airport.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that: I suspect tbtc was referring back to one of the glorious RailUK reactions from way back when when any suggestion of cutting direct services to Manchester Airport was met as if you were encouraging murder or something...

It's not for you to judge the quality of this thread. Why should you be able to trivialise discussion of design, interiors or liveries? Everything has it's place.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and to express it respectfully however. For me and I suspect a few others, tbtc included, there's nowt worse than getting a decent thread going then someone kicking off because 'OMG HSTs will look awful in Virgin colours'...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Is wasted space more legroom or luggage space or less useful things like door and toilet layouts? Not being sarcastic, just interested.

For me it's things like the fact The Shop is big enough to host a small tennis tournament. You probably lose about 2 full carriages' worth of seats to begin with when you consider how much the disabled toilets, The Shop, kitchen and bike etc storage area at the back of A take.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is wasted space more legroom or luggage space or less useful things like door and toilet layouts? Not being sarcastic, just interested.

More first class, the buffet, more bogs and the end vehicles, in which only 2/3 of the Standard one is in passenger use and only 1/3 of the First Class one. And the seat pitch on the 350 in the airline seats in the centre section is a bit tighter, though in other areas (vehicle ends and tables) it's either the same or better - but spacing those seats better than the Pendolino and fully aligning them to the windows (per the 185) would require the removal of only 2-4 seats per coach.

Neil

 

[gordonthemoron]

wouldn't fancy doing London-Glasgow/Edinburgh on a 350 though

 

[Bletchleyite]

wouldn't fancy doing London-Glasgow/Edinburgh on a 350 though

If it had coffee-buying facilities I'd be happy to. 350s are less claustrophobic and have bigger windows and more shoulder/elbow room. My preference would be for a 444 (the best IC rolling stock on the UK rails at the moment, IMO) but that's just a slightly narrower 350 with end doors.

Neil

 

[thealexweb]

wouldn't fancy doing London-Glasgow/Edinburgh on a 350 though

To be fair to the Class 350's they are far better than anything Virgin Trains has. So much space inside and no nauseating tilting.

 

[cjmillsnun]

If it had coffee-buying facilities I'd be happy to. 350s are less claustrophobic and have bigger windows and more shoulder/elbow room. My preference would be for a 444 (the best IC rolling stock on the UK rails at the moment, IMO) but that's just a slightly narrower 350 with end doors.

Neil

Take a flask Either than or some have a trolley I think, and yes the 444s are about the best IC EMU after GatEx ruined the 442s.

 

[route:oxford]

The Dundee/Inverness/Aberdeen pax would not have been happy bunnies

Nor would the Perth & Stirling passengers.

On that point...

Any news of when the new Stirling-London service will be starting and what time of day it will be running?

 

[Romilly]

The original press release suggested extra trains to Stirling (and Sunderland - but not, I suspect, the same trains) would start from December 2015.

 

[sprinterguy]

Secondly, I'm not going to lose much sleep over the ending of free train tickets - it's nice to have these perks, but given how busy the railway is, I don't think that it's essential to give away tickets on busy trains for "free".

It does frustrate me however when a loyalty scheme is suddenly rendered worthless by a change in operator, typically at the same time as I had accrued enough points to make my membership worthwhile. This isn't the first time this has occurred to me recently.

Never been particularly fussed about the "free" tickets, but I am disappointed that I am unlikely now to ever accrue quite enough points with East Coast rewards to get a case of beer from Beer Hawk, my total instead sitting frustratingly close, yet still below, the required level.

 

[andrewkeith5]

It does frustrate me however when a loyalty scheme is suddenly rendered worthless by a change in operator, typically at the same time as I had accrued enough points to make my membership worthwhile. This isn't the first time this has occurred to me recently.

Never been particularly fussed about the "free" tickets, but I am disappointed that I am unlikely now to ever accrue quite enough points with East Coast rewards to get a case of beer from Beer Hawk, my total instead sitting frustratingly close, yet still below, the required level.

You still have a few weeks to buy and use an eVoucher that would bring your points total up, provided you use the voucher credit!

 

[Suraggu]

I can confirm EC65 (an Ex EMT Mk.3 Trailers) will be joining the VTEC fleet on 1st March 2015. This will be a 2+8 set
This set will be dedicated trailers with EMT power cars which will change depending on maintenance requirements.

M-F the set will work a captive Neville Hill (NL) start and NL finish, Saturday the set will be spare and sunday the set will work a NL -NL captive diagram.

A Mk.4 set will be stood down from 01/03/2015 for refurbishment work to be carried out.

 

[Deerfold]

I can confirm EC65 (an Ex EMT Mk.3 Trailers) will be joining the VTEC fleet on 1st March 2015. This will be a 2+8 set
This set will be dedicated trailers with EMT power cars which will change depending on maintenance requirements.

M-F the set will work a captive NL start and NL finish, Saturday the set will be spare and sunday the set will work a NL -NL captive diagram.

A Mk.4 set will be stood down from 01/03/2015 for refurbishment work to be carried out.

What's NL?

 

[Stats]

What's NL?

Northern lights?

 

[ainsworth74]

It's the shed code for Neville Hill depot outside of Leeds where EMT HSTs are maintained.

 

[AE]

Secondly, I'm not going to lose much sleep over the ending of free train tickets - it's nice to have these perks, but given how busy the railway is, I don't think that it's essential to give away tickets on busy trains for "free".

The seats given away for "free" were in general on the least busy trains and probably wouldn't have had a bum on them anyway. They may well have made money out of me due to my frequent trips to the buffet car. They also got what they wanted in that they got me to buy tickets on their website.

In general, it's good business practice to treat your regular/better customers well. A company that thinks "what the hell, were so busy anyway" is very often riding for a fall.

 

[JaJaWa]

VTEC's Twitter account has launched at https://twitter.com/askVirginEC/.

Also Sam Jessup, Virgin Trains' creative director posted the attached photos of the 91103 rebrand. (https://twitter.com/samthebox)

 

[sprinterguy]

That’s quite an expanse of red on the loco, by the looks of it – More so than being confined to the cab area as it is with the “Pretendolino” and Voyagers/Pendolinos.

 

[CC 72100]

That’s quite an expanse of red on the loco, by the looks of it – More so than being confined to the cab area as it is with the “Pretendolino” and Voyagers/Pendolinos.

I was gonna say - looks like the amount of red that could be found on the 'old' DVTs when the WCML was in the hands of 86s and 87s.

 

[talltim]

Is it just me that thanks of Honda when they see VTEC?

 

[7Pinza]

VTEC's Twitter account has launched at https://twitter.com/askVirginEC/

Is it? We've already had one parody account - this is another 'unverified' twitter account.

 

[telstarbox]

The Hull Trains official account isn't verified either.