Virgin / Stagecoach win East Coast

[The Box Photter]

Given Stagecoach's penchant for offering "dirt-cheap" alternatives on the roads (Megabus etc), is there scope for the new franchise to spawn an offshoot offering 50p (plus £1 booking fee), Kings Cross to Edinburgh using slightly older rolling stock?

When Northern Rail gets all the class 319s, that would allow a "cascade" or perhaps more accurately a "collapse" of Pacers for use on the ECML.

The service would be brilliant for students and those passengers unable to afford the normal fares. Of course given the 75mph top speed of the Pacers, there would need to be increased provision of slow lines and passing loops. Perhaps the Government could fund the new infrastructure as a way of encouraging long-term benefits claimants back to work.

I know its a radical idea, but I'm just putting it out there. Its certainly no less crazy than the proposed business case for HS2/3/4/5 ....

 

[yorksrob]

I know its a radical idea, but I'm just putting it out there. Its certainly no less crazy than the proposed business case for HS2/3/4/5 ....

I wish they'd done it with the 508's when they were still available.

 

[Poolie]

Bit of a pincer movement for Hartlepool.
Services to Middlesbrough and services to Sunderland via Newcastle! Hartlepool must be a big earner for Grand Central so hopefully they won't get squeezed out of the market.

 

[RichmondCommu]

VT ran west coast down. They slashed the maintenance on the Mk3s and locos to the bare minimum, patched them up when they failed and sent them on their way. That's how they made their improvements.

The nice shiny Pendos would always look better than the shabby, dirty, neglected LHCS they replaced. Yet back in IC days, that Mk3 stock was clean (inside) and the service was reliable in the main.

The other improvements weren't delivered by Virgin and the leasing company but by Network Rail, as they were infrastructure related.

I'm sorry but some of this is almost pathological Even going back to the BR days the Pendolino's are light years ahead of anything that was running on the WCML back then, at least in my opinion.

 

[jon0844]

If you are serious, tell us how you'd go about buying shares in Eurostar or Keolis, because I think Eurostar has only three shareholders and Keolis two.

It wasn't serious. However, spreading rumours to manipulate share values has happened many times.

 

[Hadders]

I guess the MKIV sets and the HST's will get a Pretendolino colour scheme.

Should be very easy to implement - only a few vinyls needed given the grey base colour the trains already carry.

 

[Suraggu]

I guess the MKIV sets and the HST's will get a Pretendolino colour scheme.

Should be very easy to implement - only a few vinyls needed given the grey base colour the trains already carry.

Lets just wait and see shall we, who knows what style the Virgin brand will be put in force.

 

[Tony2215]

Surely KX to Scotland will be *run* by Stagecoach, just as East Midlands Trains or South West Trains etc - it's only *branded* Virgin.

Thanks for the info but isn't it managed by about 49% Stagecoach and 51% virgin?

 

[Darandio]

Thanks for the info but isn't it managed by about 49% Stagecoach and 51% virgin?

West Coast yes, East Coast is 90% Stagecoach 10% Virgin.

 

[Suraggu]

Funny that on North Of London Intercity operators,
Stagecoach will run...
49% on the ICWC, 90% on ICEC and 100% on EMML. I am surprised their has been no outcry of monopoly.

 

[3141]

The SNP are going to be the king-makers in a hung Parliament next year, if the analysts are to be believed. Buttering them up early won't do any harm, will it?

There are ways of structuring a procurement process to get the result you want. See Capita and Serco for more details.

That said, I expected First to get it, so maybe I am being too cynical. But nobody ever went bust underestimating the honesty of politicians.

So now it isn’t because “all those millions Brian gave to the Scottish National Party have just cashed in” as you said in post 62. Instead, you reckon that in October 2013, when the DfT published the ICEC prospectus and pre-qualification documents, they were already thinking that they should structure the procurement process to result in a win for Stagecoach, who hadn’t yet even been short-listed, because if the SNP didn’t win the referendum almost a year later they would possibly hold the balance of power after the 2015 election, and it would therefore be worth “buttering them up” in 2014.

Did you expect First to get it because they had not made donations to the SNP?

“Too cynical”? Just a bit, because your credibility “goes bust” if you have to invent implausible fantasies rather than accept that an outcome you don’t like could have been honest.

 

[infobleep]

There's nothing in what you're quoted to suggest Standard Class passengers will get the at-seat service.

Well others on here were quoting a trolley service or were they guessing that's what would happen.

 

[Lee_Again]

Funny that on North Of London Intercity operators,
Stagecoach will run...
49% on the ICWC, 90% on ICEC and 100% on EMML. I am surprised their has been no outcry of monopoly.

But still better than BR running 100% on the ICWC, 100% on ICEC and 100% on EMML. Now that would be something to moan about.

 

[RichmondCommu]

But still better than BR running 100% on the ICWC, 100% on ICEC and 100% on EMML. Now that would be something to moan about.

Well exactly. Some people have short memories.

 

[BananaRepublic]

Funny that on North Of London Intercity operators,
Stagecoach will run...
49% on the ICWC, 90% on ICEC and 100% on EMML. I am surprised their has been no outcry of monopoly.

In the main, the different routes do not compete with each other, particularly the WCML and ECML and certainly not once you are north of London. So it isn't an issue whether one operator, or different operators are running these franchises.

The competition is mostly road and to a lesser extent air. As Stagecoach don't yet own all the roads and charge us to use them, we are far from an anti-competitive position.

 

[thenorthern]

VT ran west coast down. They slashed the maintenance on the Mk3s and locos to the bare minimum, patched them up when they failed and sent them on their way. That's how they made their improvements.

The nice shiny Pendos would always look better than the shabby, dirty, neglected LHCS they replaced. Yet back in IC days, that Mk3 stock was clean (inside) and the service was reliable in the main.

The other improvements weren't delivered by Virgin and the leasing company but by Network Rail, as they were infrastructure related.

In my humble honest opinion the Pendolino is still the best train we have operating in this country as it still has many unique features that other trains don't have.

Remember though before 1997 the ECML was considered the main London-Scotland route but now Virgin Trains I would say has taken that crown. I remember a time as well when Stoke-on-Trent was a nothing station with only a 2 hourly London service now it has a half hourly fast service to London and regular services brought in by VXC that it could only dream of before.

 

[harz99]

I'm sorry but some of this is almost pathological Even going back to the BR days the Pendolino's are light years ahead of anything that was running on the WCML back then, at least in my opinion.

Really? Standard class in Pendolino's is poor compared to LHCS Mk3s; no padding left in the seat bases (never was much to start with), seats that don't line up with windows, seats without windows at all, insufficient poorly placed luggage racks, claustrophobic interiors with tiny windows, and those infernal "bing-bong" announcements to name but some.

Do you happen to be a first class user by any chance?

 

[Manchester77]

I imagined he refurbishment the existing stock will get will be vigin vinyls on to the outside, and then the Virgin blue and red seat covers?

 

[RichmondCommu]

Really? Standard class in Pendolino's is poor compared to LHCS Mk3s; no padding left in the seat bases (never was much to start with), seats that don't line up with windows, seats without windows at all, insufficient poorly placed luggage racks, claustrophobic interiors with tiny windows, and those infernal "bing-bong" announcements to name but some.

Do you happen to be a first class user by any chance?

No I always travel in standard class unless my employer is generous enough to allow me to travel first class. I barely notice the announcements but then I remember a time when trains had no announcements at all. Would you rather that trains had no announcements?

Almost your whole argument centres on windows and yet very few travelers bother to look out the window in my experience. Electronic devices tend to be far more interesting, and then of course in my case there is work to be done. I think most people would rather have a seat over a view from a window. I don't find the Pendolinos at claustrophobic and I'm 6'3".

In terms of luggage racks I can't recall the mk3's having anymore luggage space and of course less luggage space equals more seats. What would you rather have?

I can't help wondering why you have not mentioned safety, or speed, or reliability.

 

[6Z09]

Really? Standard class in Pendolino's is poor compared to LHCS Mk3s; no padding left in the seat bases (never was much to start with), seats that don't line up with windows, seats without windows at all, insufficient poorly placed luggage racks, claustrophobic interiors with tiny windows, and those infernal "bing-bong" announcements to name but some.

Do you happen to be a first class user by any chance?

The luggage racks (above your head)are useless for anything bigger than a Laptop bag.
Also agree about the windows!!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Pendolino overhead luggage racks will take an IATA hand luggage bag very easily. They are not small (that accolade goes to Voyagers and Turbo/Electrostars) and are quite accessible by being low down.

 

[Masbroughlad]

What was the content of the Eurostar/Keolis and the First bids? Will we ever know? Would be interested to see 8f they were.more radical than the winner.

 

[Saint66]

What was the content of the Eurostar/Keolis and the First bids? Will we ever know? Would be interested to see 8f they were.more radical than the winner.

My understanding is that losing bids are very rarely revealed, if ever. However, I'm sure some expereinced members can confirm that.

 

[WatcherZero]

No its never revealed by Government, sometime the losers will say 'We are disappointed as our bid was better for passengers, we were planning to do X, Y, Z improvements'

 

[Bantamzen]

I'm pretty pleased to see a proposed 2 hourly service from Bradford & Harrogate. If these services go ahead, will they continue to reverse at Leeds and then run through Wakefield or will they start to use the Hambleton Curve once the wires go up I wonder?

 

[Suraggu]

Well exactly. Some people have short memories.

Big difference between nationalisation and privatisation.

 

[Robertj21a]

Big difference between nationalisation and privatisation.

Yes, innovation and motivation come to mind.

 

[Ground Frame]

Is it just me or are the National media completely uninterested in this franchise announcement?

 

[yorksrob]

Yes, innovation and motivation come to mind.

Well, it's taken them twenty years to "innovate" a new railcard.

Other than advanced purchase, which admittedly has changed rail travel (albeit at the expense of affordable walk on travel in some cases), the real innovation seems to have come from the opening up of new routes and competition by open access operators, rather than franchising.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Is it just me or are the National media completely uninterested in this franchise announcement?

They might have been more excited if Keolis really had won (bash the French etc).
As it doesn't fan the flames of immigration or devolution, nobody's interested really.
Railways are "too difficult" for most of the media.
It wasn't mentioned at all on the BBC 10 o'clock news.