Virgin rail 'bullies'

[bnm]

30 years old woman.
15 year old son.

Theres a word for girls like her.

There are a few words. One could be stepmum.

 

[mrcheek]

I don't know about his personal pleasures (but would suggest that your horse example is a figment of your imagination), but as far as I was aware Richard Branson was not involved in the day to day running of Virgin Trains?

Note to all RailUKForums users:
Please read the relevant article before commenting.
The article states that they wrote directly to Branson, who (or at least his PA) expressly supported the company's position.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There are a few words. One could be stepmum.

ah, so a "homewrecker" then!

 

[Railjet]

There are a few words. One could be stepmum.

Maybe, but I doubt it.

Face of son = (face of Mum + face of Dad) ÷ 2.

 

[gordonthemoron]

so what is she a company director of then? 30 seems a bit young (I've been a company director but I was 47)

 

[Darandio]

I'm 30 and I am a company director.

It's my own company and I am the sole employee but makes no difference, it's still a company.

 

[Lad Brookes]

Not quite.

The 09:31 stops at Watford Jn, and the 09:51 at Milton Keynes Central.

Edit: Tom beat me.

Yes, but to get off the 09:31 and get wait for the 09:51 would require the next stop that they both called at. Which is Euston.

 

[bnm]

ah, so a "homewrecker" then!

Or, married a widower. What is your problem with this woman aside from the train ticket issue? To make baseless assumptions on her character is frankly disgusting and does nothing to further the debate about the rights and wrongs of the ticketing issue.

 

[mrcheek]

Or, married a widower. What is your problem with this woman aside from the train ticket issue? To make baseless assumptions on her character is frankly disgusting and does nothing to further the debate about the rights and wrongs of the ticketing issue.

This woman is a troublemaker, basking in publicity, trying to give Virgin Trains and their staff a bad name. As such, she deserves any insults that get thrown at her. The law of the internet!

Anyway, I would assume that a publicity seeking, fare evading liar (who either has or is about to have a criminal record) is probably not a good sort of person. I bet Im right about her.

 

[Railjet]

I'm 30 and I am a company director.

It's my own company and I am the sole employee but makes no difference, it's still a company.

Exactly - it costs very little to set up a company and become a company director.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Advance tickets can be a godsend.

For example, last weekend myself and a few friends decided on a bit of a trip in 4 weeks time. I have staff Priv rate, but my friends do not, so the trip is planned around cheap tickets. We have got Leeds to Kings Cross for £10 each, Sleeper Advance tickets for £60 each from Euston to Inverness - which includes the berth fee. Once there we will take advantage of my First Group Friends and Family tickets for £5 each, ending up back in Glasgow a day or two later where we have got £18 First Class tickets from Glasgow to Newcastle to pick up a £5 TPE ticket from there.

Taking the £5 Staff Promo tickets aside, those Advance fares are VERY good value, and only booked 4 weeks in advance.

But to get those deals they come with restrictions, in same way as cheap National Express or Megabus tickets, cheap airline tickets etc etc.

I don't know why people always think the railways are a free for all. Although slightly different, it is similar to other threads (here : http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=41205) where people have suggested that you should just accept any old ticket late at night as if it doesn't matter. If I travel locally on buses operated by Transdev I buy a K-Day valid for unlimited travel on Transdev buses. I do not just get on a First, Centrebus or Pennine bus and expect them to accept my ticket which is restricted to another bus company - so why do people think that they can just get on any train with an operator specific ticket and use it without recourse - and then blame the nasty Railways or unsympathetic Guard when they have to pay again.

The reason Advance tickets have such strict restrictions can be considered as follows:

My trip above might not have been possible without Advance tickets as my friends would not be able to afford it. Lets say we couldn't get tickets on some of the off peak trains we wanted to use because they had sold out. Lets say they had been purchased by person X. But is it then fair that person X then uses those tickets on an earlier or later train because someone is being flexible with the rules? No. Firstly, other people on the earlier or later train may not have been able to buy those cheap tickets for a reason - so person X is getting away with paying less than their fellow passengers because they are bending the rules. Meanwhile, I may decide not to travel at all or end up having to pay significantly more because person X has brought the cheap tickets on the train I want - and they are not even using them anyway. That is not fair on me. It is tantamount to fraud - person X is getting to travel on an expensive train with cheap tickets they shouldn't be using, meanwhile causing inconvenience to somebody who can't buy the cheap tickets on the train they want.

 

[colpepper]

It illustrates the complicated farce rail travel has become. A labyrinth of alternatives designed to cheese everyone but the most committed ticket geek off. Even aficionados on here argue about what is and isn't allowed, what hope for a family who just want to travel from one place to another by train?

Bring back BR and joined up thinking.

 

[Darandio]

It illustrates the complicated farce rail travel has become. A labyrinth of alternatives designed to cheese everyone but the most committed ticket geek off. Even aficionados on here argue about what is and isn't allowed, what hope for a family who just want to travel from one place to another by train?

Bring back BR and joined up thinking.

I still don't understand what is difficult?

Two weeks ago I bought advance tickets for this Saturday. On selecting the ticket and service it told me that in no uncertain terms that I was to catch that particular train. I paid for the tickets and got an email stating the same thing. I then received the tickets by post and it states on the tickets the exact same thing.

How is that confusing when it is obviously the same situation with this story?

 

[mrcheek]

It illustrates the complicated farce rail travel has become. A labyrinth of alternatives designed to cheese everyone but the most committed ticket geek off. Even aficionados on here argue about what is and isn't allowed, what hope for a family who just want to travel from one place to another by train?

Bring back BR and joined up thinking.

How difficult is it?
It is clear that they are to travel on the 0951. The 0931 is not the 0951. How hard can it be?
What this illustrates is that most alleged confusion over ticket validity is actually down to people trying to scam their way onto whatever train they feel like.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Bring back BR and joined up thinking.

I don't know why people think it was any different under BR!

I have previously looked at some of my old fares manuals and timetables dating back into the early 80s and their is a myriad of tickets with a myriad of restrictions.

Although I will admit that the definition of off-peak now is very complicated, the issue of Advance tickets couldn't be simpler - they are all the same.

Hark back to the BR era in the early 90s and I see Apex, Super Apex, Super Advance, Advance, Daypex to name but a few, all of which had different booking deadlines, different restrictions etc. (and incidentally - looking at the fares it is often a lot cheaper now as well!).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What this illustrates is that most alleged confusion over ticket validity is actually down to people trying to scam their way onto whatever train they feel like.

Hear Hear. Having assessed the many situations I encounter at work, I have decided that the vast majority of all issues I have with Advance tickets or railcard discounted tickets purchased in advance on the internet fall into this category.

 

[colpepper]

I was working on the assumption a train had been delayed long enough to enable their ticket to be valid. When I was a frequent rail traveller there was first class, second, second with railcard discounts and restrictions on Friday rush hour travel. Everything else was permitted. Tickets should not be a trick to catch the unwary, rail is national transport infrastructure not snakes and ladders.

 

[Darandio]

But thats just it, assumptions.

My assumption, equally valid, is that the train was on time and they just got on it.

Like I said, they obviously have advance tickets and its clearly stated several times about the most simple rule, to travel on the service you bought the ticket for. Thats not complicated.

Then again, you might be right but for the situation to pan out the way it was, I don't think so.

 

[Olympian]

This lady was on the Daybreak sofa at around 0745 (I think) this morning, very adamant that although she knew the tickets were booked for the 0951 she asked a Virgin employee at the station who, after looking at the tickets, told her it would be OK to use them on the 0931 hence they did just that. But then she went on to say that tickets for the 0951 were the same price as for the 0931 so why should she have to pay any extra anyway as the difference in fares was zero....!

I noticed though that the bit about a Virgin employee allegedly "authorising" them getting the 0931 wasn't mentioned in the Daily Mail article.

 

[colpepper]

she asked a Virgin employee at the station who, after looking at the tickets, told her it would be OK

That sounds entirely plausible, not saying it's true but I've asked station staff who've replied ' er..yeah' to similar questions and it doesn't fill one with confidence.
The answer should be obvious of course and the fact it isn't is at the root of the problem.

 

[MikeWh]

Before I make it any further down the thread I have to respond.

What is there to be stunned about?

This may seem unusual to all you seasoned rail travellers and/or staff, but I'm probably typical of many occasional rail users. In my youth (25+ years ago) I used to make several long distance journeys using Saver tickets and a young persons railcard (or was it called student in those days?) Then as I became more involved in my work for a local company my travel was restricted mainly to watching my local-ish football team (Abbey Wood - Norwood Junction in those days). Then my work took me first to Woking and then to Redhill and I spent 6-7 years commuting across London on a season ticket from Crayford. Since then my only rail travel has been in and around south east London and maybe into Kent, until a year and a half ago when we went on holiday to Weymouth ...

My wife drove down with the kids and I took the train after football. She'd agreed to this because the extra space in the car was crucial. The nearest station to the holiday park was Upwey, but I wasn't sure how easy it might be for her to find that in the dark so I wanted the option of going on to Weymouth. Fares are identical as the stations are only a few miles apart. I'm sorry if this seems unusual, but I was stunned to find that I couldn't buy a ticket to Weymouth and get out at Upwey if that was appropriate. There was no difference in price for heavens sake, what was the problem. I don't want to turn this into a debate about the reasonableness of advance regulations, but that is why I was stunned. I'd never encountered advances before although I've now used them a few times on other journeys. It certainly explained some of the stories I heard about football fans complaining when Sky moved their matches by a day.

So, there you have it.


Oh, and mrcheek, I stand corrected about the 14 or 15 thing, but I still find your willingness to rubbish the person and even Richard Branson quite disturbing.

 

[Darandio]

This may seem unusual to all you seasoned rail travellers and/or staff, but I'm probably typical of many occasional rail users.

I don't make many journeys nor am I staff so don't fall into that category!

In this particular case, it's an advance ticket for a specified journey, nothing unusual or difficult so no comebacks when you try to pull a fast one.

I appreciate what you are saying though, ticketing for someone not up to speed can be a potential minefield. However, why should the TOC not have every right to place the relevant restrictions on the ticket to maximise, especially when it is an advance. Remember, many of these tickets are being sold at relative pennies compared to the full walk up fares.

In terms of the situation you posted regarding Weymouth, I presume this was an advance ticket. Although only a few miles apart, the rules have to cover all advance tickets. It's a bit like the stories of people buying advance tickets, stopping short and then being refused permission to leave the station as they should have stayed on board. Although it might seem silly and not a big deal to do this, you have effectively stopped a further advance sale for the remaining portion of your journey in the seat you were using which in turn has cost the TOC revenue.

 

[Failed Unit]

This woman is a troublemaker, basking in publicity, trying to give Virgin Trains and their staff a bad name. As such, she deserves any insults that get thrown at her. The law of the internet!

Anyway, I would assume that a publicity seeking, fare evading liar (who either has or is about to have a criminal record) is probably not a good sort of person. I bet Im right about her.

A bit harsh about someone you know absolutely nothing about based on a newspaper story short detail. I am hope that you are never selected as a member of the jury in a court case if you can come to that conclusion with such a small amount of evidence. Yes she evaded the fare, but it seems a little odd that anyone would make that amount of noise for a "fare cop". It will cost more in legal fees than paying up.

Is there more to this then meets the eye? Very few people will ever know!

 

[Deerfold]

A bit harsh about someone you know absolutely nothing about based on a newspaper story short detail. I am hope that you are never selected as a member of the jury in a court case if you can come to that conclusion with such a small amount of evidence. Yes she evaded the fare, but it seems a little odd that anyone would make that amount of noise for a "fare cop". It will cost more in legal fees than paying up.

Is there more to this then meets the eye? Very few people will ever know!

Newspaper story, radio story, TV item...she seems to be very worked up about it.

 

[Geezertronic]

Note to all RailUKForums users:
Please read the relevant article before commenting.
The article states that they wrote directly to Branson, who (or at least his PA) expressly supported the company's position.

Note to MrCheek. Article was read before commenting and it doesn't really matter if they wrote to Richard Branson as AFAIK he doesn't have any responsibility in the day to day running of Virgin Trains so was lucky to get anything back at all (and what they did get back sounds like a typical standard corporate response from a company PA).

Regardless of whether the 0931 service was late or not, it doesn't matter as they still caught the wrong train. If their tickets were checked before WFJ, were they asked to leave at WFJ and refused I wonder?

 

[Failed Unit]

Newspaper story, radio story, TV item...she seems to be very worked up about it.

That is what I don't get, from what is reports she is in the wrong no if's, no but's. Why would anyone go through this hastle just to potentailly end up looking total a fool!

I got caught out once when I didn't realise that on a break of journey the restriction applies from where your train started from (not where you get on after your break), so my ticket wasn't valid because of the time the train left London. If I had used an XC train instead leaving 10 minutes earlier it would have being OK. I was P*ssed off, but in that case just had to take it on the chin.

I can sort of see why, the crew changed at Newcastle - the stop I joined so they had no way of telling if I had got on at London and just avoided the gaurd until Newcastle.

 

[jon0844]

Bring back BR and joined up thinking.

You think BR would scrap the myriad of discounted fares and offers and go back to a simple set of fares? Perhaps, but no doubt that would get rid of all the bargain advance fares and make rail travel far more expensive.

The current system is easy enough; if you need to travel at short notice, there's a walk on fare that has no restrictions at all. You'll pay a high price for it, but it's there. Same as turning up an hour before a flight and buying the last seat - you pay if you're desperate enough (note how most airlines would let the seat go empty than give a last-minute discount, as you might expect if an alternative way of selling was employed).

Of course, you're entitled to moan about paying a high price after - we're a nation of moaners (myself included!).

And, can't you get travel insurance to cover for missing your train through unforeseen circumstances (not the fault of the railway), such as your car breaking down to the station, being ill or whatever? If you can, why don't people opt to pay for that instead of expecting to take a later train?

I know in this case it was an earlier train, but I'm talking about the more likely scenario where someone turns up late and doesn't accept the need to buy a new ticket and put the unused ones in the bin.

And, while I wouldn't use trainline.com because of the booking fee, there are many online booking engines that work just like finding the cheapest flight - and will get you the cheapest fare automatically. It really isn't hard. If you were flying, you wouldn't go to a travel agent and expect to check every single fare individually one by one - so nor would you do that on the railway.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Our legal system is supposed to work under the principles that one is "innocent until proven guilty"...

And that ignorance of the law is no defence!

 

[colpepper]

Remember, many of these tickets are being sold at relative pennies compared to the full walk up fares.

I'd phrase it slightly differently. Leisure users are squeezed out of walk-on long distance travel by TOCs targeting customers whose companies pay for their ticket. Because the fare isn't coming out of an individual's wallet, the absurd 'normal' prices are tolerated. The remaining revenue is season ticket commuter traffic.
The non-business traveller has to navigate the crumbs left over via an assortment of 'trick' fares acquired via loopholes or promotions. Occasional rail users who have no interest in ticketing minutiae are left out in the cold. Ticket prices are just too complicated and the accusation of evasion is disproportionate.

If it does come to court I hope a smart lawyer uncovers some of the absurdities of UK rail travel pricing.

 

[DarloRich]

It illustrates the complicated farce rail travel has become. A labyrinth of alternatives designed to cheese everyone but the most committed ticket geek off. Even aficionados on here argue about what is and isn't allowed, what hope for a family who just want to travel from one place to another by train?

Bring back BR and joined up thinking.

[/QUOTE]It illustrates the complicated farce rail travel has become [/QUOTE] - It doesnt illustrate a complex fare structure! It illustrates quite clealry on the ticket booked train only or somesuch.

[/QUOTE] Even aficionados on here argue about what is and isn't allowed [/QUOTE] But in this case it is quite clear - THE TICKET IS ONLY VALID ON THE 0955!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it says on the ticket.

[/QUOTE]what hope for a family who just want to travel from one place to another by train?[/QUOTE]

There are plenty of sources of information at a station - either through incompetance or an attempt to get an earlier train they got on the wrong train therefore invalidating thier tickets and breaching what is a very cler ticket restriction.

I have sympathy if they can prove a Virgin employee lookedat the tickets, looked at the board and told them to get on.

To me it sounds like someone travelling on the wrong train for thier ticket - thye were chancing thier arm and got caught and are now kicking up a fuss in the hope it gets dropped.

I hope Virgin keep chasing them - I know it is harsh but it is correct

 

[Mojo]

I have had to remove some quite offensive and personal comments in this thread (I realise there are some left and these will be sorted, but please report any more), so please stop.

 

[DarloRich]

well done Mojo - some were abusive and uncalled for