Virgin Launches Blockade Runner

[devon_metro]

I'd suggest that your attitude towards them (which can hardly be described as unbiased) probably colours your judgement. It certainly doesn't make you sound like an impartial witness.

Very likely, and somewhat true, I admit.

At the end of the day, I don't find travelling on Voyagers overly pleasant compared to the humble Mk3 and hence don't have any reason to 'fight their corner'

 

[djw1981]

The Mk4s "fared well" - hardly...

The vehicle that was ripped apart after hitting an OLE mast at Hatfield was a Mk4 buffet vehicle. All four people who were killed were in this vehicle (as were the two GNER staff who were seriously injured).

Here's the remains of the roof:

http://paulbigland.fotopic.net/p30920183.html

And here's the report on Hatfield (with pictures in the appendix)

http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/297.pdf

Yeah the buffets always seem to fair badly - which I haven;t seen a reliable explanation for.

I guess the issue with carbon fibre would be similar to the pendo - can it be repaired or does it need a new body shell instead? Older steel stock could be welded.

 

[voyagerdude220]

That is a shame. Seems such a waste.

I've been on many Super Voyagers under VWC which have tilted, especially 221144 "Prince Madoc", which acclerates far faster than any other 221 i've been on before...

And 221144 has always tilted when I've been on her in the past.

When I took two Supermarkets between Preston and Glasgow, via the S&C earlier this year, on seperate dates, both trains tilted in EPS areas north of Carlisle, despite the double-set formations increasing the probability of either set not being able to function in tilt mode.

 

[Pumbaa]

222s ftw... (compared to 220/1s

There are no 220/1s - just 220/0s! Voyager patented parts of the Vomit design, meaning that only Virgin can use the 220/221 design again. Therefore there are no other subclasses. The 222s are the same train basically, although Bombardier like to say they are 80% different.

 

[class 313]

There are no 220/1s - just 220/0s! Voyager patented parts of the Vomit design, meaning that only Virgin can use the 220/221 design again. Therefore there are no other subclasses. The 222s are the same train basically, although Bombardier like to say they are 80% different.

Oh dear!

When I said 220/1 I meant a 220 and 221.

And 222s are much better in various ways, seating. Better luggage racks and never really had those bad smells! Oh and of course. Longer.

 

[Max]

Oh and of course. Longer.

Actually, many of the original 222s were delivered in 4 car formations, so no longer. Obviously these have been reformed on EMT, but 4 cars are retained on Hull Trains.

 

[Techniquest]

And those glorious 9-car 222s, the ones that had enough capacity for future growth? What did they do to them? They split them up, one or two being down to 6-car units IIRC. What a waste of money...

If there was any real pattern to it, that wouldn't be so bad, but they seem to have a right mixture.

Bloody things are, IMO, inferior to Voyagers anyway. I am doubtlessly the only person who thinks so, but what the hey.

 

[Snapper]

Very likely, and somewhat true, I admit.

At the end of the day, I don't find travelling on Voyagers overly pleasant compared to the humble Mk3 and hence don't have any reason to 'fight their corner'

I admire your honesty.

 

[class 313]

And those glorious 9-car 222s, the ones that had enough capacity for future growth? What did they do to them? They split them up, one or two being down to 6-car units IIRC. What a waste of money...

If there was any real pattern to it, that wouldn't be so bad, but they seem to have a right mixture.

Bloody things are, IMO, inferior to Voyagers anyway. I am doubtlessly the only person who thinks so, but what the hey.

Not really a waste of money as the choaches are still needed, just other services. Of course if the 9 car 222s sat around doing f all, then yes that would be a waste!

 

[saltley 1394]

Here are a few photo's of the Chiltern Railways route learning bubble car 960014 taken at London Euston platform 16 on Saturday afternoon, while out route learning the EWS drivers and Virgin senior conductors.

 

[FusionRail]

Meridians (222's) were delivered in 4 or 5 car sets then MML ordered 9 car sets, and still on the MML, EMT run 4 car, 5 car, 9 car or 4+5 car formations. Never seen a 6 car though.

Quite often 222's will smell, even now, and often when they go through some stations they leave a bad smell of s*** behind them.

 

[16CSVT2700]

And those glorious 9-car 222s, the ones that had enough capacity for future growth? What did they do to them? They split them up, one or two being down to 6-car units IIRC. What a waste of money...

I personally don't call it a waste of money.. it's shuffling around coaches in order to form units up to create more capacity where shorter units would be unsuitable. It's the right idea rather than having half empty 9-coach sets running about while the shorter 4-car sets are running about wedged to hell.
What bit don't you understand?

And furthermore, what aspects of the Voyagers make them far superior to the Meridians, even though the 222 series units had many original 220/221 problems ironed out, with better seat-window configuration (from what I've experienced) and an overall better travelling experience?

 

[RJ]

I went on a Pendo in March. The nearest toilet had a motorised door, which would shut 3/4 of the way then open itself again. I tried three times before moving on. When I opened the door of the next toilet, the floor was soaking wet, covered in wet tissues and the bowl was overflowing. Moving on again, the next toilet was locked out of use and smelt rather peculiar. The first useable toilet was 4 or 5 coaches away from where I was sitting.

I do realise that this was the last train of the day (2340 off Euston) but it's unacceptable to have a train going long distances with a pitiful excuse for facilities. Virgin needs to work less on fancy Pendolino advertising campaigns and more on sorting out the problems.

 

[FusionRail]

And those glorious 9-car 222s, the ones that had enough capacity for future growth? What did they do to them? They split them up, one or two being down to 6-car units IIRC. What a waste of money...

If there was any real pattern to it, that wouldn't be so bad, but they seem to have a right mixture.

Bloody things are, IMO, inferior to Voyagers anyway. I am doubtlessly the only person who thinks so, but what the hey.

They look nicer than voyagers, with the sporty headlamps in my opinion.

There are no 6 car units, only 4 or 5. 9 cars only run on the longer or busier services, and 4/5 car units on others, sometimes coupled together.

Do you even live near/travel on the MML?

 

[AlexS]

Not a problem - idiots upstairs are changing that train to a Voyager soon anyway *lol*

I hope they will be providing a replacement taxi at their cost for those of us who use the train to Wolverhampton that they're now terminating at New Street for their convenience, not ours, with the next train forward to Wolverhampton being approximately 3 - 4 hours later at about 0515.

 

[The Planner]

As mentioned before, the trains are now in, xx45 off International and xx03 out of Euston. 2 hrs 17 Int-Euston, except on the 28/6 when its 2 hrs 43. 2 hrs 25 on the way back.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Am i right in thinking that 7 double-sets are required for these services then, totalling 14 221's being traded away from the Birmingham to Glasgow/Edinburgh's, in favour of Pendolinos?

I.e. 09:45 Birmingham to Euston arrives 12:28
13:00 Euston to Birmingham arrives 15:26
15:45- Sets same as 09:45 service etc.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I don't know if anyone's aware of this, but some of the Birmingham-Euston Super Voyagers actually start or terminate at Preston, reducing the number of Pendos needed to run the Birmingham to Scotlands.

Examples include the 09:45 ex Birmingham, which starts at Preston, at 07:20.

The 16:00 & 17:00 ex Euston also continue to Preston, arriving at 20:43, and 21:35 respectively.

 

[Techniquest]

I personally don't call it a waste of money.. it's shuffling around coaches in order to form units up to create more capacity where shorter units would be unsuitable. It's the right idea rather than having half empty 9-coach sets running about while the shorter 4-car sets are running about wedged to hell.
What bit don't you understand?

And furthermore, what aspects of the Voyagers make them far superior to the Meridians, even though the 222 series units had many original 220/221 problems ironed out, with better seat-window configuration (from what I've experienced) and an overall better travelling experience?

Doesn't it cost a bomb to reconfigure the sets every time they reform the sets? I'm of the belief that this was the case when the 180s were considered for reforming. To the tune of over £1m. To me, that is a huge sum of money.

Nevertheless, I agree with your point that the re-forming needs to be done, no point wedging trains full when there are other trains 3/4 empty. I just wish they'd thought about it a bit more when they ordered the bleeding things! They should have realised that 4-car trains on Intercity routes just don't work, and they had plenty of experience curteousy of Virgin to go by. Hence ordering 5 or 6-car 222s would have been a much better idea.

As for the other gentleman, no I don't live anywhere near the MML. I'm so glad I don't as I couldn't put up with the 222s.

 

[Donny Dave]

Just wait until one of these super new carbon-fibre trains crashes into something though, and you'll regret having a super light-weight train!

Just look at how 390 033 coped after derailing at 95 m.p.h at Lambrigg.....

It was very sad that one person died, but if it was an older MK3 set, goodness knows how many more would have died!!

This is why Voyagers and Pendos have all the pillars....

In the very, very, very, rare event of an emergency/crash/derailment, they may quite possibly save your life.....

Ahem. Clearly you don't remember the crash at Bushey in 1980 ....

On 20th April 1980, a high speed train heading for Watford Junction derailed immediately before Bushey station due to a broken weld in the track. The locomotive and first three carriages continued past the viaduct on the other side of the station, but the remaining carriages overturned and brought down the power lines along the platform. In spite of the severity of the derailment, all carriages retained structural integrity and only minor injuries were reported of the passengers.

That was quite a severe derailment (just under 100mph IIRC), with carriages flying all over, yet there was no deaths. So it is hard to compare crash worthiness between different makes of carriages.

 

[class 313]

That was quite a severe derailment (just under 100mph IIRC), with carriages flying all over, yet there was no deaths. So it is hard to compare crash worthiness between different makes of carriages.

Did any of the carriages fall off the viaduct?

 

[Donny Dave]

Not that I recall.

But on the other hand, you have carriages bouncing of the platforms, tearing up the OHLE stanchions, upside down, on their side, back to front, etc, so it was a violent accident. Yet there was only minor injuries.

 

[djw1981]

OHLE stanchions cause a lot of the impact and damage in crashes on electrified lines, which is kind of hard to avoid.

 

[class 313]

When the OHLE is ripped down by a carriage striking it, what if the wires fall onto the carriages, would everyone in the carriages affected be brown bread?

 

[devon_metro]

OHLE probably short circuits

 

[jopsuk]

When the OHLE is ripped down by a carriage striking it, what if the wires fall onto the carriages, would everyone in the carriages affected be brown bread?

Surely the Faraday Cage effect should protect?

 

[class 313]

Surely the Faraday Cage effect should protect?

Good point there actually.

 

[djw1981]

And as Top Gear proved with the VW Golf, it still applies with aluminium vehicle panels

 

[jopsuk]

And as Top Gear proved with the VW Golf, it still applies with aluminium vehicle panels

No reason it shouldn't. The thin paint/adhesive layers aren't much insulatio, and whilst it's not great, aluminium is still a metallic conductor.

Remmeber, planes often get stuck by lightning, and very rarely suffer for it.

 

[devon_metro]

Planes aren't earthed though?

 

[class 313]

Planes aren't earthed though?

They have a lightning rod.