Virgin Launches Blockade Runner

[The Planner]

Maybe this one holds more water, they have bid for paths via Crewe for loco hauled stock already.

 

[vc-10]

You make Mk3s sound unsafe, far from it!

Remarkably stable considering no metal pillars, lightweight body and no crumple zones. Just stay out of the Buffet!

Why stay out of the buffet?

Carbon fibre is remarkably good at absorbing energy, it just does it by splintering. But I believe that if you reinforce it with aluminium, it's stronger and lighter, and deforms more like a metal. Then there's GLARE, which is used on the new Airbus A380, which is a composite Aluminium/fibre material, which is great for stressed skining (where the skin takes some of the forces), especially in tension. Floors perhaps?

 

[voyagerdude220]

Why stay out of the buffet??

Don't you have any general knowledge about MK3's, and how they've coped in previous rail accidents at all??

The buffet on HST sets has proved on several times before, as not being as strong or able to with hold the forces of the HST derailing etc. , with it not being unknown to cause the train to split in two/three, with FC and SC being drawn away from each other, and split, by the buffet...

As for your opinion about carbon fibre being used in the manufacture of trains....

I don't personally have a great knowledge of the properties of Carbon Fibre, and how it would cope if it was incorporated into the design of a modern-day train, but from what I do know (i.e. it isn't very strong or durable) I don't personally think it would be very suitable...

But there again, i'm willing to be proved wrong.......

 

[djw1981]

Carbon fibre is very strong for its weight (which is really the best comparator). It is not very durable, can be tricky to repair and splinters into very sharp fragments when split (e.g. F1 car wings etc) which may not be desirable in a passenger environment.

The MkIV's appear to have fared well in recent collisions, and we should remember that teh Mk3 was designed in the 1970's - 30 years ago, since when material science and the understanding of collision impacts and force disipation have come on leaps and bounds (helped by NCAP and teh car industry amongst others).

 

[jopsuk]

Carbon fibre is very strong for its weight (which is really the best comparator). It is not very durable, can be tricky to repair and splinters into very sharp fragments when split (e.g. F1 car wings etc) which may not be desirable in a passenger environment.

The MkIV's appear to have fared well in recent collisions, and we should remember that teh Mk3 was designed in the 1970's - 30 years ago, since when material science and the understanding of collision impacts and force disipation have come on leaps and bounds (helped by NCAP and teh car industry amongst others).

All these objections to carbon fibre/epoxy have, to a fair extent, been ironed out by the development work done on the materials for the aerospace industry. Many smaller passenger aircraft these days (regional jets/prop plane size) have carbon bodies and wings. And once Boeing pull their collective finger out, the 787 will be the next big step forward in airliner construction technology. Even now, the highest load area on the A380, the wing box (where the wings attach to the fueselage) is carbon fibre.

I'm biased (I work for a major pre-preg manufacturer, on the site where composite construction for planes was invented) but I genuinely believe that the main barrier to use of carbon to build trains is not a safety engineering one, it's a financial one.

 

[16CSVT2700]

hmm. That burst my bubble. Probably not really, but virgin could run pendilinos from Bedford to St Pancras, meaning that one platform in Bedford would hold a pendilino, and a platform in St Pancras with another. It could work, but then again, it may not

Could run, but again, it is very highly unlikely that Pendos are route cleared for the MML either.
St Pancras' 4 EMT platforms would unlikely be available as there isn't much room during normal operation, so I'm told.

I can't quite understand the froth about a rancid corner shop!! :-?

 

[voyagerdude220]

I can't quite understand the froth about a rancid corner shop!! :-?

Rancid Corner Shop??!???!!

Super Voyagers are fantastic, rateable, full-of-thrash DEMUs, which have 750BHP raring to go, right underneath you, meaning that it you don't have to worry which end of the train you're sat in, or what type of engine will be on your train, as it'll be a 3750 BHP 221, or 7500 10-car Super Market :razz:

 

[NSEFAN]

Anyone got timings for the blockade runners yet?

 

[The Planner]

No, because they are not set. Its now likely they will be restricted Bicester - Prin Ris for the dodgy embankments. 600 tonnes of Voyager = 30mph TSR. WSMR will be quicker over the route, so use them instead ! :grin:

And answering the other question, Bendy buses arent cleared on the MML.

 

[class 313]

And answering the other question, Bendy buses arent cleared on the MML.

Good! Nor do we want them up here!

 

[Snapper]

The MkIV's appear to have fared well in recent collisions, and we should remember that teh Mk3 was designed in the 1970's - 30 years ago, since when material science and the understanding of collision impacts and force disipation have come on leaps and bounds (helped by NCAP and teh car industry amongst others).

The Mk4s "fared well" - hardly...

The vehicle that was ripped apart after hitting an OLE mast at Hatfield was a Mk4 buffet vehicle. All four people who were killed were in this vehicle (as were the two GNER staff who were seriously injured).

Here's the remains of the roof:

http://paulbigland.fotopic.net/p30920183.html

And here's the report on Hatfield (with pictures in the appendix)

http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/297.pdf

 

[devon_metro]

Rancid Corner Shop??!???!!

Super Voyagers are fantastic, rateable, full-of-thrash DEMUs, which have 750BHP raring to go, right underneath you, meaning that it you don't have to worry which end of the train you're sat in, or what type of engine will be on your train, as it'll be a 3750 BHP 221, or 7500 10-car Super Market :razz:

Regardless of how much thrash (:?) they have, they stink of shíte and are not pleasant to travel on, perhaps it is just XC sets, but the state of the Vomits is quite frankly disgusting!

 

[Snapper]

Regardless of how much thrash (:?) they have, they stink of shíte and are not pleasant to travel on, perhaps it is just XC sets, but the state of the Vomits is quite frankly disgusting!

I haven't been on one that has had a bad toilet for ages. I get the distinct impression this is one of those stories that people keep recycling from years ago when there was a problem. It's the same story with the Pendolinos.

 

[Taffchap]

It'll be interesting over the singled section between South Ruislip and Greenford SB! Still, I don't suppose there's much else about through there?:roll:

 

[voyagerdude220]

Regardless of how much thrash (:?) they have, they stink of shíte and are not pleasant to travel on, perhaps it is just XC sets, but the state of the Vomits is quite frankly disgusting!

I must admit, that last time I was on an XC 221, I was very disapointed at the state it was in, as one of the exterior doors in coach A was locked out of use, and the general feel to the 221 wasn't great at all, compared to normal.

The VWC 221's however, appear to be in a far better state. Yes we may have a smaller batch of them, but XC will obviously have far more depots looking after their larger fleet....

 

[jopsuk]

Why stay out of the buffet?

Carbon fibre is remarkably good at absorbing energy, it just does it by splintering. But I believe that if you reinforce it with aluminium, it's stronger and lighter, and deforms more like a metal. Then there's GLARE, which is used on the new Airbus A380, which is a composite Aluminium/fibre material, which is great for stressed skining (where the skin takes some of the forces), especially in tension. Floors perhaps?

Aircraft floors are lightweigth honeycomb sandwich panels- same with the overhead lockers. When they were first introduced, they found the stiletto heels worn by cabin crew at the time punctured the floor! That problem's long since solved.

GLARE on the A380 is used for the "crown"- essentially, the upper half of the main body barrel.

 

[Snapper]

Anyone got timings for the blockade runners yet?

Partially:

Voyager times during the blockades are as follows:

0900 and hourly until 2000 from Euston.

0945 and hourly until 1745 from Birmingham International.

Rugby does not close until 1000 on Saturdays so double Voyager sets will work from Wolves/Birmingham to Euston via the WCML, which will get sets into Euston to work north.

 

[The Planner]

Partially:

Voyager times during the blockades are as follows:

0900 and hourly until 2000 from Euston.

0945 and hourly until 1745 from Birmingham International.

Rugby does not close until 1000 on Saturdays so double Voyager sets will work from Wolves/Birmingham to Euston via the WCML, which will get sets into Euston to work north.

That's not concrete, the paths havent been finalised for them yet. Im assuming that they will be diagramed so the 0900 will make the 1045 back but that will make a turnaround at Brum Int very tight.

 

[Techniquest]

Not noticed any bad smells on Voyagers at all for a long time, and even then it was only very occasionally.

Not been on a 221 under VWC yet, but I doubt there's much if any difference. Would be nice to have one tilting at full speed up the WCML again though...

 

[Max]

They will be. The new VHF timetable sees a Virgin train leaving Euston every 4 minutes!

Was referring to the Midland Mainline
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not been on a 221 under VWC yet, but I doubt there's much if any difference. Would be nice to have one tilting at full speed up the WCML again though...

Sources tell me that the tilting equipment is currently not set up for use on the 221s, and the chances of it being fixed before the new timetable are slim.

 

[Snapper]

That's not concrete, the paths havent been finalised for them yet. Im assuming that they will be diagramed so the 0900 will make the 1045 back but that will make a turnaround at Brum Int very tight.

Well, it will be very interesting to see if these change, as these are the times that Chris Gibb, Virgin's MD gave me!

 

[Techniquest]

Sources tell me that the tilting equipment is currently not set up for use on the 221s, and the chances of it being fixed before the new timetable are slim.

That is a shame. Seems such a waste.

 

[devon_metro]

I haven't been on one that has had a bad toilet for ages. I get the distinct impression this is one of those stories that people keep recycling from years ago when there was a problem. It's the same story with the Pendolinos.

No I am simply recycling an old story :roll:

If I had travelled on nice smelling Voyagers would I have posted otherwise? I will reiterate and state that I cannot remember the last time I went on a Voyager that didn't absolutely stink! Disgusting and no way to travel long distances on quite frankly. Its probably more of a XC problem, I imagine Virgin are used to the stupid design and empty the retention tanks more often.

 

[Snapper]

No I am simply recycling an old story :roll:

If I had travelled on nice smelling Voyagers would I have posted otherwise? I will reiterate and state that I cannot remember the last time I went on a Voyager that didn't absolutely stink! Disgusting and no way to travel long distances on quite frankly. Its probably more of a XC problem, I imagine Virgin are used to the stupid design and empty the retention tanks more often.

So, you're seriously trying to tell us that every Voyager that you have been on has smelly toilets?

I can only surmise that you haven't been on many recently then.

 

[devon_metro]

Did I say that - No!

The fact that I travel on the awful things anyway is a mystery. Are you seriously telling me that it is just general bad luck that all of the Voyagers i travel on smell like a toilet???

 

[Pumbaa]

Hmm maybe. I travel on Voyagers roughly once every 3 months I'd say. And the last smelly VXC operated one was August 07 GLC - BHM. Stank to high heaven.

Comparably, the XCT ones I've been on recently have been starting to smell again. But the VWC ones are still odour-free. I just think XCT haven't got the idea that they need to be cleaned out more often than they are.

 

[class 313]

When I was up in York earlier this year, the voyager stunk quite a bit between the seating and the next carriage.

 

[Snapper]

Did I say that - No!

The fact that I travel on the awful things anyway is a mystery. Are you seriously telling me that it is just general bad luck that all of the Voyagers i travel on smell like a toilet???

I'd suggest that your attitude towards them (which can hardly be described as unbiased) probably colours your judgement. It certainly doesn't make you sound like an impartial witness.

 

[16CSVT2700]

When I was up in York earlier this year, the voyager stunk quite a bit between the seating and the next carriage.

I rarely travel on vomits as it is however not many of them have stank enough to make me feel sick.
Agreed they have gotten better in my experience, tho toilets locked out of use still appears to be a problem.
Still can't stand the rancid things though!

 

[class 313]

I rarely travel on vomits as it is however not many of them have stank enough to make me feel sick.
Agreed they have gotten better in my experience, tho toilets locked out of use still appears to be a problem.
Still can't stand the rancid things though!

222s ftw... (compared to 220/1s