Virgin extension until 2017

[rebmcr]

Further details on specific stations here: http://maps.dft.gov.uk/west-coast/#line2

Ticket gates to be installed at Crewe, London Euston, Macclesfield, Manchester Piccadilly, Stockport, Stoke-on Trent, Rugby, Birmingham International and Birmingham New Street stations

It could be argued that, at all those stations except Macclesfield, Virgin is not the "main TOC", and thus isn't the reason for gates.

 

[Hellfire]

Interesting that they don't seem to be gating Wolverhampton and Coventry!

Not Preston either. Might sweep up some of Northern's fare dodgers.

 

[gordonthemoron]

not more bleeding ticket gates, Euston is bad enough as it is

 

[Hellfire]

.....Or fewer MK stops, even.

I think MK gets a pretty good service already.

 

[northwichcat]

It could be argued that, at all those stations except Macclesfield, Virgin is not the "main TOC", and thus isn't the reason for gates.

Virgin, XC and Northern each operate approx 1/3 of the services stopping there. Northern, slightly more by the time they have some peak time extras.

All the stations listed are either managed by Virgin or Network Rail.

 

[All Line Rover]

It could be argued that, at all those stations except Macclesfield, Virgin is not the "main TOC", and thus isn't the reason for gates.

Virgin is the "main TOC" at Euston. London Overground and majority of London Midland services already use barriered platforms.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Can anyone advise me which rotations use the 9 car 390/0's - I believe at present the London-Birmingham-Scotland through services do but not sure about the others.

They are used on a variety of routes.

 

[merlodlliw]

The Shrewsbury service is going to be difficult. Many Shropshire Business People who need to go to London, either drive or take a taxi to Wolves. The timing of the morning train is so important, particularly the arrival time in Euston. I just hope extensive research is done beforehand. They need to attract the Business market so that Shrewsbury does not become a token train that is easily ditched when times are tough.

I agree it has to gain the business market,anytime after 0900 in Euston will be too late,many business people on the Giant Wrexham Industrial Estate, go from Chester, the 0700 from Wrexham being too late in Euston arriving after 0930,plus the 15 to 20 minute wait in Chester for the Holyhead section. Aspirations are one thing,people using the service are another, will the Shrewsbury service run on Bank Holidays unlike the Wrexham VT.

 

[All Line Rover]

One of the reasons why First Class is so lightly used in the off-peak is that there is no first class equivalent of the Saver/Off-Peak Return. You either have to pay the ridiculously high Anytime First Class fares or book in advance (where there are some good First Class deals, often cheaper than Standard Class). There is no "walk on" first class product for off-peak travellers.

There is a First Off-Peak Return from Liverpool. At £322.20! Considering a First Class season ticket costs approx. £100 per day and First Advance fares on Off-Peak services typically cost £38 or £51 each way, £322.20 is appallingly poor value.

Virgin recently introduced a First Off-Peak Return from Birmingham at a slightly more palatable £138.

 

[swt_passenger]

Nothing I could see here about any planned refurb of Pendolinos. They are beginning to look a little tired inside. Would that wait until the award of a longer franchise?

It's in the DfT's version of the announcement though:

£2.5 million to improve the interiors of the Pendolino train fleet, as well as £2.75 million spent on improving catering facilities
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/better-journeys-for-passengers-on-the-west-coast-main-line

 

[Hellfire]

It's in the DfT's version of the announcement though:

I should have gone to Specsavers.

£2.5 million has to be split between a lot of rolling stock. Can they do anything meaningful with that to improve the interiors?

 

[Bill Stanier]

I think MK gets a pretty good service already.

Exactly. There's a stronger case for fewer MK stops by Virgin than for more stops!

 

[DarloRich]

.....Or fewer MK stops, even.

Why would you cut out a key revenue point?

I think MK gets a pretty good service already.

In the short term it will not be enough when E-W rail comes on line and especially if the councils ambitions for further expansion and further large business relocations come off. They have a pretty good track record thus far.

Exactly. There's a stronger case for fewer MK stops by Virgin than for more stops!

is there really? On what basis? In the commercial world i doubt there is.

 

[tractakid]

To be honest, a better first step would be spacing MK's 3tph to Euston better! Or adding just one service in the massive void from 03 till 47 past each hour!

 

[CheshireCrusty]

wasn't that just by making coach D convertable? On most services it is standard but on some peak services, e.g. 16:10 ex-EUS it is first

One thing Virgin do well is manage their fare yields:
On the super voyagers Coach D is first class on most morning routings between Crewe and EUS and as you noted the evening peak period services out of Eus between 16:00 and 19:00.
I have been on a Voyager where Coach D was 1st class northbound to Preston where it was then declassified (to cope with high standard class passenger loads between Preston and Scotland - which are recently more frequently served by Pendos [9 coach?]).
As the other commentator noted - Virgin manage their yields by encouraging most passenger to pre book on advance fares - which means that they have a good idea of the balance between 1st and Standard and can then adapt the classification of Coach D accordingly. Has some interesting side notes - on already heavily booked services Advance fares (which include a seat reservation) can be considerably more than the equivalent walk-up fare. Also if 1st class is relatively under booked 1st class can (and quite frequently is) cheaper than the cheapest available standard class fare on that train.

 

[cle]

MK does ok compared to Watford! But of course there's no easy fix for that.

Any chance the Northampton loop might be upgraded speed-wise?

 

[tbtc]

I appreciate that this is a fairly new thread, but interesting that there's not been the same "outrage" at Virgin converting a "First" carriage to "Standard" that the FGW thread got. Maybe that's because of different markets, maybe that's because it's obvious that Virgin got the balance wrong on the initial 390s?

As for other things, an announcement like this is always a tricky one when there are a lot of longer term problems - which such a short award isn't going to be able to tackle.

More stops at Milton Keynes sounds a good idea - though enthusiasts seem more interested in stopping 390s at Trent Valley stations than the busy/growing market of MK.

Surprisingly the RMT think that this stability (keeping the same operator for a few more years) means that jobs are threatened:

http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-on-news-of-virgin-west-coast-extension/

Mick Cash RMT acting general secretary said."The collapse of the tendering process on the West Coast has allowed Virgin to bully themselves in to a monopoly provider position, hoovering up repeated extensions while the public sector option is ignored.

Rail franchising is a one way ticket to the bank for greedy shareholders as these companies promise the earth and deliver just the bare bones in the interest of profit while fares surge and jobs are threatened . As the great private rail rip off continues, RMT's campaign to stop this scandal steps up the pace "

...at least the RMT can stop the argument that "Nationalisation must be good because the publically owned DOR is paying a premium to the Government whilst private TOCs are taking subsidies" - given that Virgin will be paying a few quid in premium now.

Also, no mention of how Virgin *and* Alliance can serve Blackpool at the same time? Does that make the Alliance plan dead in the water?

 

[swt_passenger]

I should have gone to Specsavers.

£2.5 million has to be split between a lot of rolling stock. Can they do anything meaningful with that to improve the interiors?

They could probably spend that much removing all the glass with Virgin etched into it, in time for the eventual new franchisee to stick his vinyls on...

 

[aylesbury2]

.....Or fewer MK stops, even.

I don't see how anyone can possibly complain about the service at MKC, there are 13+tph north and south even at off-peak times. MK isn't even a city and it's population for the whole urban area is only 229000, plus into EUS you're doing 50+ miles in 30 minutes with VT which is fantastic given its size imo.

 

[cle]

I don't see how anyone can possibly complain about the service at MKC, there are 13+tph north and south even at off-peak times. MK isn't even a city and it's population for the whole urban area is only 229000, plus into EUS you're doing 50+ miles in 30 minutes with VT which is fantastic given its size imo.

Have you seen the employment stats going around? It's hugely expanding too - not just in a rail sense but population and businesses.

Not being a city is irrelevant. How many tph should St Davids have to London?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Also, no mention of how Virgin *and* Alliance can serve Blackpool at the same time? Does that make the Alliance plan dead in the water?

The VT deal lasts until 2017. Alliance don't start until 2017.
So no conflict (yet).
Apart from the new Shrewsbury/Blackpool services, there won't be any significant changes to VT services.
Major revisions depend on NR developing a new timetable for after the Norton Bridge upgrade (also 2017).
Like Northern/TPE, we will have to wait for the spec for the new 2017 franchise for any major changes (and any new stock).

 

[Hellfire]

Surprisingly the RMT think that this stability (keeping the same operator for a few more years) means that jobs are threatened:

It really is time the RMT changed the record and came into the 21st century. If the union is to be believed re-nationalisation would solve all the problems on the railways. No evidence of course.

 

[theshillito]

Also, no mention of how Virgin *and* Alliance can serve Blackpool at the same time? Does that make the Alliance plan dead in the water?

Apart from the fact that Virgin are ready to start this service *this year* with their Voyagers, while Alliance are waiting on electrification to be done in 2017, Virgin are apparently only planning one or two trains a day to Blackpool, while Alliance (a slower route, might I add) are planning a 2-hourly service which will probably be fine to run with a single virgin service added.

 

[DarloRich]

I don't see how anyone can possibly complain about the service at MKC, there are 13+tph north and south even at off-peak times. MK isn't even a city and it's population for the whole urban area is only 229000, plus into EUS you're doing 50+ miles in 30 minutes with VT which is fantastic given its size imo.

"Only" 229000. For comparison:

Aylesbury: 58740
Northampton: 212000
Rugby: 70628
Watford: 120960
Bedford C.100000 (if you include Kempston)
Peterborough 137,000
Oxford: 150000
Wellingborough: 75000



So I would say, before you even look at the level of business commuting to AND from MK that it is the largest population centre in the area and that population is only predicted to increase. Much of the comment on MK seems to be based on some kind of snobbery, bitterness that which ever place you favour gets a less good service and a simply unwillingness to look at both facts on the ground and the commercial impact of that population wanting to commute.

However the main reason for complaint seems to be that these awful oiks (who pay a substantial sum for their tickets) should not be allowed to board MY train ( for which I am clutching a cheap mega super advance) and make it crowded thus lowering my journey enjoyment for that crucial first/last half hour! How dare they join my super express train when they can easily use a slower service taking up to twice the time for the same journey! :roll:

 

[The Planner]

Ive heard the Shrewsbury to London train runs between Crewe and London calling at Shrewsbury, Telford, Stafford (pick up only) and Euston.

That is way out of date and incorrect, they got canned. They will be via Birmingham now.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Any chance the Northampton loop might be upgraded speed-wise?

Not to any extent that it would be competitive time wise.

 

[aylesbury2]

Virgin's focus is on intercity services - Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester and Glasgow to London. Today, MKC is getting 20tph north and south, with 14 passenger services non-stop (passing through) - 60% of services passing stop there. Let's not forget that the figure it's for the entire MK urban area is included, and that's larger than most other cities in the area, and that being on the WCML (the biggest passenger line in the UK in terms of population served) helps its case tremendously.

I don't think many can complain.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It really is time the RMT changed the record and came into the 21st century. If the union is to be believed re-nationalisation would solve all the problems on the railways. No evidence of course.

But that would take away all the opportunities for those creative RMT script-writers whose offerings bring so much in the way of raising our spirits with laughter on this website.

 

[Iskra]

Virgin's focus is on intercity services - Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester and Glasgow to London. Today, MKC is getting 20tph north and south, with 14 passenger services non-stop (passing through) - 60% of services passing stop there. Let's not forget that the figure it's for the entire MK urban area is included, and that's larger than most other cities in the area, and that being on the WCML (the biggest passenger line in the UK in terms of population served) helps its case tremendously.

I don't think many can complain.

Ah, but as the center of the known universe, it should have at least a London Underground frequency into Euston...

 

[gordonthemoron]

Almost all VT services should stop to pick up and set down at Milton Keynes, like almost all FGW services stop at Reading, not a city, population 155,300

 

[Iskra]

Almost all VT services should stop to pick up and set down at Milton Keynes, like almost all FGW services stop at Reading, not a city, population 155,300

Why do intercity express trains need to stop at a commuter-town station that already has a good service provision?

The only VT stops that I could understand at MK are picking-up only going North and setting-down only going South to provide connections to the North, which is the only weakness in MK's service.

Or perhaps VT should just omit it altogether like Watford...

 

[DarloRich]

Virgin's focus is on intercity services - Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester and Glasgow to London. Today, MKC is getting 20tph north and south, with 14 passenger services non-stop (passing through) - 60% of services passing stop there. Let's not forget that the figure it's for the entire MK urban area is included, and that's larger than most other cities in the area, and that being on the WCML (the biggest passenger line in the UK in terms of population served) helps its case tremendously.

I don't think many can complain.

No - Virgins focus is on making money! IF they can do that by stopping every train at MK they will.

As for the rest of your post it sems to contradict what you said above!