Vandalism at Stourbridge

[Bletchleyite]

If we had a railway system with the luxury of sufficient amounts of rolling stock to allow for some maintenance other than the bare essentials, then it might very well be possible to make a point of stamping this unsightly nonsense out by removing it before the affected vehicles enter service. As it is, TOCs have little choice other than to let vandalised stock out into traffic most of the time, and make plans to clean it up later.

Have you travelled by train in mainland Europe, particularly northern Germany? The problem there is orders of magnitude worse.

Neil

 

[Clip]

only if it is authorised uniform. Otherwise no.

Ahh good point. I guess the only people to authorise that would be a court then?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Have you travelled by train in mainland Europe, particularly northern Germany? The problem there is orders of magnitude worse.

Neil

It's over a decade since I was there, but that is something I'd always noticed. Back then many of the trains were in outdated liveries, often with two or three different colour schemes within any given consist. I have no idea if things have changed, but the focus seemed to be on keeping interiors clean rather than the trains being presentable to the casual onlooker.

 

[455driver]

Interestingly, I have yet to see tags on cars or vans, even those parked up for weeks at a time. I've never quite worked out why - anyone any ideas?

I have seen a few vans tagged and on one occasion a motorhome which was parked between Raynes Park and Motspur Park.

 

[rmt4ever]

all over the place every single year all over the place

So.. All over the place then?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The level of wibble on this thread. The Ukipers/Daily Mail simpletons must be rubbing themselves sore.

Some people spray painted a train!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - They didn’t go on a murderous rampage killing 15 innocent school children, 3 nuns and the Dalai Lama. Get a grip and some perspective!

Wish there was a like button on this foum

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Christmas "vandalism" can be prevented by prudent non-outstabling and security - quoting my own measures - nothing in Camden over the break (berth safely in Euston with the de-icer train ready for quick action if needed) , clear Northampton Riverside and berth on goods lines in Bletchley (with 24 hour security) and all NLL units at Watford - with security. Not a single tag recorded........mind you - this was mid- late 1990's. Other operators "took a chance" - and paid for it accordingly one gathers....

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The level of wibble on this thread. The Ukipers/Daily Mail simpletons must be rubbing themselves sore.

Some people spray painted a train!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG! - They didn’t go on a murderous rampage killing 15 innocent school children, 3 nuns and the Dalai Lama. Get a grip and some perspective!

I am finding it somewhat difficult to follow your comparison of heinous crimes in your examples (one may have also included those of Fred West and Ian Brady also) as having anything whatsoever to do with the resultant actions of those who have spray-painted units of public transport. Do you think that certain offences should no longer be deemed as being a crime and miscreants should be allowed carte blanche to do whatsoever they felt? At what level do you draw the line then. Do assaults on rail-staff in the course of their duties, shoplifting, pickpocketing and burglary then become the norm without any strictures being applied? Is there a difference between "low-level" crime and "low-life" crime?

If one were to ask what the meaning of "civic pride" meant to those who spray-painted the graffiti on the Class 139 units, I wonder what responses would be forthcoming from them.

 

[edwin_m]

Christmas "vandalism" can be prevented by prudent non-outstabling and security - quoting my own measures - nothing in Camden over the break (berth safely in Euston with the de-icer train ready for quick action if needed) , clear Northampton Riverside and berth on goods lines in Bletchley (with 24 hour security) and all NLL units at Watford - with security. Not a single tag recorded........mind you - this was mid- late 1990's. Other operators "took a chance" - and paid for it accordingly one gathers....

Was this why East Coast berthed several sets at Kings Cross, which were then trapped there when the engineering work overran?

 

[HowardGWR]

I have seen a few vans tagged and on one occasion a motorhome which was parked between Raynes Park and Motspur Park.

Thanks for that, perhaps the roads are less safe for this activity, being lit. I wonder what will happen now that councils are not lighting roads at night.

I was surprised to read about a rail vandal case whereby the perp was an older fellow holding down a responsible job. I assume such people do not have a girl.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

First can I thank Yorkie for sorting my start to this debate. The Stourbridge Shuttle service is never going to be an enthusiasts route, it does a job for the people of the area. 15 metre bogie versions would be nice and we will continue to ask for better services. Any idiot complaining about what works, Please!!!!

 

[jon0844]

yesterday - he was round for a brew. Decent bloke but a bit quiet.

Did he have any spray cans with him? It's often the quiet ones.

No - it is not as bad as mass murder - just an example of mindless yobs who think they have the right to damage other people's property. Would you like them to graffiti your residence / property ?

When we came back from being with family for Christmas, our wheely bin was missing.. and found in the back of a Mitsubishi pick-up, along with another bin and loads of wreaths.

Clearly someone thought it funny and, hey, hardly murder or rape.

Amazingly the police came around tonight asking for information as someone had reported their wreath stolen. We didn't bother as we got our bin back, and didn't think the police would care.

However, I posted on a local community on Facebook and it was clear that people do take things like this rather personally, if only because it means one of our neighbours (probably more, as nobody could have carried our wheely bin alone) obviously has no respect for others living here.

I guess the same applies for graffiti.

Personally, I'd be treating such anti-social behaviour as serious, as it does have an effect on people. It can also start a chain reaction, where a place begins to look run down and gives an incentive to do further damage. You only need to look at how quickly a car can become wrecked once it appears to be dumped, and start to have a few of them about and why wouldn't people then begin to smash the odd window, spray some things etc?

(and btw, I am fully aware of my avatar. It doesn't glorify Tox, but merely represents my recollection of daily travel in the early 2000s where his tags were -everywhere-).

 

[Clip]

Was this why East Coast berthed several sets at Kings Cross, which were then trapped there when the engineering work overran?

They always berth sets overnight at the cross, every night.

 

[trainspotter]

The Class 139 Depot was broken into over Christmas with both Railcars suffering damage. Who are the idiots responsible.

https://www.facebook.com/Stourbridg...1315915246635/880724051972483/?type=1&fref=nf

Any leads on the idiot who done this?

 

[L&Y Robert]

Any leads on the idiot who done this?

"Jaspa" dunnit, din'ee?

Once, on this forum, I suggested that the sale of spray paint should be restricted and controlled. Purchaser to show ID, a record of the amount and colour sold be kept in a central database. An arrangement a bit like the Poisons Register, I thought, so that in the event of an 'outbreak' there would be a lead to those resposible. And the idea was laughed out of existence, and all sorts of "Against" arguments put forward, so I let it lie. If we (society) cared enough, then it could be controlled. But we don't, and that's the top and bottom of it.

 

[Welly]

Some say that it is a vandal
Some say it is anti-social
Some say it doesn't care
All we know it is "Jaspa!"

 

[The Planner]

Needs a spoiler on the back and some big speakers on the parcel shelf and a 6 disc changer for the driver. Wicked.

 

[DownSouth]

Once, on this forum, I suggested that the sale of spray paint should be restricted and controlled. Purchaser to show ID, a record of the amount and colour sold be kept in a central database. An arrangement a bit like the Poisons Register, I thought, so that in the event of an 'outbreak' there would be a lead to those resposible. And the idea was laughed out of existence, and all sorts of "Against" arguments put forward, so I let it lie. If we (society) cared enough, then it could be controlled. But we don't, and that's the top and bottom of it.

It works here - when combined with a policy of prompt removal.

I'm sure that there are some brave public servants in the UK who might endure a fact finding mission to Adelaide, a place which receives more hours of sunlight in winter than the popular English seaside town of Scarborough does in summer.

 

[L&Y Robert]

It works here - when combined with a policy of prompt removal.

What works?
Where's here?
Are you in Australia maybe? Is there no grafitti there then?

 

[DownSouth]

What works?
Where's here?
Are you in Australia maybe? Is there no grafitti there then?

The state government in South Australia introduced a requirement to show ID for spray paint sales, and graffiti rates dropped accordingly.

Councils also empower local volunteer groups to help with graffiti removal (or more accurately graffiti cover-up) which has been so successful that the Office of the Rail Commissioner has adopted it for local stations. This has the bonus effect of contributing to the building of civic pride.

The third plank of the graffiti reduction is the provision of places where spray can art can be practised legally.

There's still some of it around, but it's not that common in Adelaide unless you go to the really scummy post-industrial ghettoes where there isn't any resident population to take pride in their area.

 

[L&Y Robert]

The state government in South Australia introduced a requirement to show ID for spray paint sales, and graffiti rates dropped accordingly.

Councils also empower local volunteer groups to help with graffiti removal (or more accurately graffiti cover-up) which has been so successful that the Office of the Rail Commissioner has adopted it for local stations. This has the bonus effect of contributing to the building of civic pride.

The third plank of the graffiti reduction is the provision of places where spray can art can be practised legally.

There's still some of it around, but it's not that common in Adelaide unless you go to the really scummy post-industrial ghettoes where there isn't any resident population to take pride in their area.

Thanks, DownSouth, that's interesting. (- and I thought it was my idea!) It wouldn't take very much to insitute the same here, but as I said, we (society at large) don't care enough, and the resposibility is divided - TOCs on the one hand, Railtrack on the other. Not enough noise being made about it.

 

[Bodiddly]

Graffiti vandalism is not confined to the railways, it is a national eyesore which costs councils and businesses up and down the country millions of pounds a year to clean up. Now we have smartwater technology for marking scrap metal, could this be an manufactured as an additive to spray paint and combine that with a requirement to produce valid ID at the time of purchasing?
If the purchaser can be identified by matching their ID to that particular tin of spraypaint by means of a unique number easily recorded at the point of sale, it would be a start to detecting the vandal causing the damage. If you genuinly use spraypaint for legit purposes, would it be any more of an inconvenience to carry your driving licence or your passport when buying some?
I still think the best way of dealing with the scourge at the moment is to clean it up/paint over it as soon as possible.

 

[DownSouth]

Thanks, DownSouth, that's interesting. (- and I thought it was my idea!) It wouldn't take very much to insitute the same here, but as I said, we (society at large) don't care enough, and the resposibility is divided - TOCs on the one hand, Railtrack on the other. Not enough noise being made about it.

It is possible to independently co-invent the wheel

I don't think we were the first place in the world to do it.

Video games are probably one factor that's helped reduce the level of graffiti, there's nothing like bored youth to cause a bit of havoc!

Graffiti vandalism is not confined to the railways, it is a national eyesore which costs councils and businesses up and down the country millions of pounds a year to clean up. Now we have smartwater technology for marking scrap metal, could this be an manufactured as an additive to spray paint and combine that with a requirement to produce valid ID at the time of purchasing?

I think we may have markers in spray paint here, I'm not sure and I don't plan to find out myself!

It's a technology first started in the explosives world, and used quite effectively.

If the purchaser can be identified by matching their ID to that particular tin of spraypaint by means of a unique number easily recorded at the point of sale, it would be a start to detecting the vandal causing the damage. If you genuinly use spraypaint for legit purposes, would it be any more of an inconvenience to carry your driving licence or your passport when buying some?

The main point of the ID requirement here is not for forensic evidence gathering but to act as a deterrent - see the frequent mentions of The Attitude Test on this forum in relation to fare evasion.

I still think the best way of dealing with the scourge at the moment is to clean it up/paint over it as soon as possible.

Even if you have other parts of a comprehensive graffiti strategy, this is still an important part of things because you'll never stamp it out completely.

Empowering volunteers to be a part of this is an approach that helps work here in Australia. Any trade union that tried to attack our strong culture of volunteerism (many hundreds of volunteers including 200 from the Sydney area are out in the Adelaide Hills tonight, fighting the worst bushfire in South Australia for over 30 years) in the name of securing some jobs would be committing political suicide, but that balance might be different in Britain.

 

[DarloRich]

I am finding it somewhat difficult to follow your comparison of heinous crimes in your examples (one may have also included those of Fred West and Ian Brady also) as having anything whatsoever to do with the resultant actions of those who have spray-painted units of public transport. Do you think that certain offences should no longer be deemed as being a crime and miscreants should be allowed carte blanche to do whatsoever they felt? At what level do you draw the line then. Do assaults on rail-staff in the course of their duties, shoplifting, pickpocketing and burglary then become the norm without any strictures being applied? Is there a difference between "low-level" crime and "low-life" crime?

If one were to ask what the meaning of "civic pride" meant to those who spray-painted the graffiti on the Class 139 units, I wonder what responses would be forthcoming from them.

I dont think i have ever said this isn't a criminal offense that needs to be dealt with and the guilty punished. My point was that the way many were going on you would think that a terrible crime had been committed. Instead a train was spray painted. Yet the punishment many seem to want dishing out is in no way proportionate to the actual crime. There are many crimes i would happily see the perpetrator strung up by the googlies for. Spraying a train isn't one of them!

To me the punishment for this crime should be public, community based and humiliating. Hence put them in bright pink jackets marked "I AM A CRIMINAL", make them clean up their muck, name and shame & have them shown in the local press to be criminals serving the community. Prison for these kind of cases is overkill unless the perpetrator is a recidivist.

As Down South has said there are also ample ways the crime can be prevented, ask for ID when purchasing spray paints, provide legal areas/outlets to spray, reduce the size of cans of paint, limit the numbers one person can buy etc.

Or just string them up by the googlies - whichever is easier.

 

[HowardGWR]

I dont think i have ever said this isn't a criminal offense that needs to be dealt with and the guilty punished.

Are these Americans then, who are the 'perps' (staying with the lingo)?

 

[bussnapperwm]

Both units have had the worse if not most scraped off...

 

[86206]

Any leads on the idiot who done this?

Puzzled by something. The shed in which the 139 is put to bed at night, I would have thought to have been more secure than the open Chiltern sidings over Christmas. Is it a case of the cameras there being enough of a deterrent (along with the CCTV on the station car park opposite) which I would also imagine capture images of Junction Station quite easily.