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Vaccine Progress, Approval, and Deployment

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hwl

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Richard Scott

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Not buying this R goes up by 0.7. If R is 1 then jumps to 1.7 that's a 70% increase. If R is 2 and goes to 2.7 that's a 35% increase. Better to express as a percentage otherwise massively misleading. We're far too hung up on the R value.
 

35B

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Not buying this R goes up by 0.7. If R is 1 then jumps to 1.7 that's a 70% increase. If R is 2 and goes to 2.7 that's a 35% increase. Better to express as a percentage otherwise massively misleading. We're far too hung up on the R value.
It’s an old problem with expressing changes. A rise from 1 to 1.7 is both a 0.7 increase in R and a 70% increase. Which is more concerning will depend on whether absolute or relative change is more important.
 

yorksrob

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Don't worry, my place is a total moan-fest at the moment for various (mainly Covid-related) reasons!

Indeed.

Obviously that doesn't include not moaning about the Bentham line, given they haven't bothered to reinstate it since the first lockdown.
 

brad465

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In terms of the new strain, I've been noting cases in Kent as I have family there, and they do now appear to be declining. How far and how quick, who knows.
Living in Maidstone according to the ZOE app which I input into, Maidstone has been bouncing up and down recently, but not increasing overall. Other parts of Kent though do seem to be improving, including the hard-hit Medway and Swale areas, but NW Kent is more of a concern.
That will be part of the picture. But some new US analyses of the UK data for the new strain attempting to start to try to answer some of those type of questions has put the minimum lowest amount of increase in transmissibility due the mutations at 20% increase in transmission and probably more as that is the minimum bound. i.e. It can't be all down to lower compliance.
(Multiple total estimates for increase in transmission coming in the 50-70% range.)
Yes when you have a respiratory virus that will be transmitted in every environment we visit, it's wrong to put it down to one cause. Besides, with the vaccine rollout underway and a high number of infections currently active, there's only so long R can remain where it is before improving weather and immunity build-up from the combined immunity sources brings the value down (even if "herd immunity" hasn't yet been reached if that's ever possible).
 

yorksrob

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Living in Maidstone according to the ZOE app which I input into, Maidstone has been bouncing up and down recently, but not increasing overall. Other parts of Kent though do seem to be improving, including the hard-hit Medway and Swale areas, but NW Kent is more of a concern.

Yes when you have a respiratory virus that will be transmitted in every environment we visit, it's wrong to put it down to one cause. Besides, with the vaccine rollout underway and a high number of infections currently active, there's only so long R can remain where it is before improving weather and immunity build-up from the combined immunity sources brings the value down (even if "herd immunity" hasn't yet been reached if that's ever possible).

It does suggest to me that the infection is rippling outwards.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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It does suggest to me that the infection is rippling outwards.
Agree im in E.Surrey and our cases were very low until early December and have tripled by today although its important to pay attention to the day the test was taken especially over last 7 days when the higher numbers are actually some catching up presumably with tests not processed for a couple of days. Whats also happened over the last few days is hospital admission to local NHS trust have increased considerably in response to the case pick up from a few weeks ago although we were already assisting Kent trusts so some of capacity had already been gone. Certainly in many Kent areas there has been a levelling off which means the R rate is heading back to 1 albeit it needs to drop below 1 for cases to be falling.
So if the variant is that more transmissible you would have thought there would be more attempts at restricting movement and although train occupancy is very low again round here the M23/M25 are still pretty busy.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

The main problem is that the limiting factor seems to be production rather than logistics. The 2 million doses a week does seem to be a hard limit based on what can be produced. Throwing the kitchen sink at this won't make those factories any quicker.
India has manufactured 50m doses of the Oxford vaccine on spec we don't appear to have anything like that number currently despite all the bravado and accolades heaped on Kate Bingham by Johnson and Hancock. Vaccination has always been the only way out for this govt and we aren't in pole position despite what they've been saying hence the more aggressive restrictions and the disregarding of applying the rules over the tiers. The fact Furlough was extended without pressure from the opposition and new regulations allow for voting to take place tells you they are in for the long haul.
Govt should come clean about vaccination plan in terms of daily numbers by age group and areas based on known delivery quantities of the vaccine and show us they have a route to achieve the levels needed to get us out by Easter then people maybe more predisposed to abide by the rules.
 
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brad465

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Senior Lecturer at QMUL Deepti Gurdasani has recently tweeted the following thread which includes the apparent concept we only have a short window to contain the current variant and need a vaccination rate of 90% to get R below 1 again:


A brief summary of the very precarious situation we are in now, and why we have a very narrow window to act in the UK. If we don't act now, it's likely the window for containing COVID-19 will pass- not just for the UK but globally. Here's why. Thread.

The UK is home to a new variant strain of virus- one that's thought to be ~56% more transmissible than the previous strain of virus. This viral strain continued to spread through the previous lockdown, where cases were rising in London & the SE England even under lockdown 2/N

This means even with national lockdown, surges of cases will be very difficult to control. It also means we will need much higher vaccine uptake ~90% or even more to achieve an R below 1 - if this is possible at all (given we don't know the vaccine efficacy on transmission) 3/N
Aside from the extreme logistical challenges of vaccination 90% of the population so fast, I can't see how that proportion will be necessary if increasing immunity from previous infection and eventually improving weather will also help reduce the infection rate.
 

Yew

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Senior Lecturer at QMUL Deepti Gurdasani has recently tweeted the following thread which includes the apparent concept we only have a short window to contain the current variant and need a vaccination rate of 90% to get R below 1 again:



Aside from the extreme logistical challenges of vaccination 90% of the population so fast, I can't see how that proportion will be necessary if increasing immunity from previous infection and eventually improving weather will also help reduce the infection rate.
The R would need to be around 10 to require a 90% vaccination rate. If that were the case, then we don't really have any realistic chance of containment.
 

yorksrob

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Agree im in E.Surrey and our cases were very low until early December and have tripled by today although its important to pay attention to the day the test was taken especially over last 7 days when the higher numbers are actually some catching up presumably with tests not processed for a couple of days. Whats also happened over the last few days is hospital admission to local NHS trust have increased considerably in response to the case pick up from a few weeks ago although we were already assisting Kent trusts so some of capacity had already been gone. Certainly in many Kent areas there has been a levelling off which means the R rate is heading back to 1 albeit it needs to drop below 1 for cases to be falling.
So if the variant is that more transmissible you would have thought there would be more attempts at restricting movement and although train occupancy is very low again round here the M23/M25 are still pretty busy.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


India has manufactured 50m doses of the Oxford vaccine on spec we don't appear to have anything like that number currently despite all the bravado and accolades heaped on Kate Bingham by Johnson and Hancock. Vaccination has always been the only way out for this govt and we aren't in pole position despite what they've been saying hence the more aggressive restrictions and the disregarding of applying the rules over the tiers. The fact Furlough was extended without pressure from the opposition and new regulations allow for voting to take place tells you they are in for the long haul.
Govt should come clean about vaccination plan in terms of daily numbers by age group and areas based on known delivery quantities of the vaccine and show us they have a route to achieve the levels needed to get us out by Easter then people maybe more predisposed to abide by the rules.

I thought we were supposed to have a factory churning this stuff out. How comes India's produced 50 million, yet we've only got 500k !
 

yorksrob

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It sounds as though it's in the world's interest to get a good proportion of the vaccine to us pronto.
 

devon_metro

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I thought we were supposed to have a factory churning this stuff out. How comes India's produced 50 million, yet we've only got 500k !

The UK regulators require each batch to be tested before approval. It's not as simple as churning it out and sending them straight to vaccination centres.
 

Cletus

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How are people contacted to receive the vaccine?

Personally I'm not at school, no medical condition, not having been to a doctor since my childhood.
 

Darandio

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How are people contacted to receive the vaccine?

Personally I'm not at school, no medical condition, not having been to a doctor since my childhood.

So you aren't registered with a practice?
 

kristiang85

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How are people contacted to receive the vaccine?

Personally I'm not at school, no medical condition, not having been to a doctor since my childhood.

Yeah I'm wondering too, I actually have no idea where I'm registered. It's somewhere in Liverpool as that's where I lived the last time I went to a doctor about 14 years ago, but having rung round a few surgeries nobody seems to have my records. And my local surgery told me I'd have to find out before they could register me.
 

Darandio

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No idea, unless something has carried forward from my youth?

I would have thought you would have a medical record at the practice you attended back then, assuming it exists. You should really get registered with your local practice though, there isn't any reason not to.
 

Bertie the bus

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How are people contacted to receive the vaccine?

Personally I'm not at school, no medical condition, not having been to a doctor since my childhood.
Unless you are in one of the top priority groups you will almost certainly be contacted by post. It is probably a good idea to ensure the NHS has your correct address. In 2015 I had to use the NHS for the first time in years and they still had me living at the address I left 13 years earlier.
 

DerekC

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Yeah I'm wondering too, I actually have no idea where I'm registered. It's somewhere in Liverpool as that's where I lived the last time I went to a doctor about 14 years ago, but having rung round a few surgeries nobody seems to have my records. And my local surgery told me I'd have to find out before they could register me.
According to the NHS website you fill in form GMS-1 and take it to your local surgery - it's available here:

GMS1: Family doctor services registration (publishing.service.gov.uk)

You need to provide a previous address so that they can try to find your records, but they shouldn't refuse to register you unless you find them. Sounds like a receptionist trying it on!
 

yorksrob

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My mum banged on at me for ten years or so to sign up with the local surgery. I finally did a few years ago.
 

BJames

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No idea, unless something has carried forward from my youth?
If you attended University you may have registered at the practice there, in which case they will have your student address (I'm at Uni now and we are still getting mail from old residents of the house we're in).

If you haven't been to the doctors' since school days and still reside at the same property now they should still have your up-to-date details. Otherwise, it is highly likely your details are out of date. My parents have both received a text telling them to await further information on when they could get the vaccine so they may contact you by phone - I definitely agree with above and recommend you register at a local practice - you never know when you might need it, and it's much easier to book appointments and the like when you're registered as well as probably get more accurate info about when you can get your vaccine.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Yeah I'm wondering too, I actually have no idea where I'm registered. It's somewhere in Liverpool as that's where I lived the last time I went to a doctor about 14 years ago, but having rung round a few surgeries nobody seems to have my records. And my local surgery told me I'd have to find out before they could register me.
Why does the NHS love to make things as difficult as they can? I'm not 100% sure they really need this information to register you.
According to the NHS website you fill in form GMS-1 and take it to your local surgery - it's available here:

GMS1: Family doctor services registration (publishing.service.gov.uk)

You need to provide a previous address so that they can try to find your records, but they shouldn't refuse to register you unless you find them. Sounds like a receptionist trying it on!
For sure.
 

kristiang85

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According to the NHS website you fill in form GMS-1 and take it to your local surgery - it's available here:

GMS1: Family doctor services registration (publishing.service.gov.uk)

You need to provide a previous address so that they can try to find your records, but they shouldn't refuse to register you unless you find them. Sounds like a receptionist trying it on!

Thanks - that is super helpful. The receptionist did seem a bit put out I had had the temerity to ask her a question.

As it wasn't urgent I didn't follow up (just was doing admin as I moved into my current house), but with this vaccination coming it's probably prudent to register properly.
 

DustyBin

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I can’t remember if we picked up on the potential ‘mix-and-match’ strategy at the time, but either it was nonsense to begin with or something has changed(?)....

UK scientists are planning trials to see if giving people two different types of Covid vaccine, one after the other, might give better protection than two doses of one jab.

This mix-and-match approach can go ahead only if another jab is approved by regulators, as has already happened with the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine.

The head of the UK's vaccine task force said trial designs were being prepared.

The editor of the British Medical Journal has asked the New York Times to correct an article that claims UK guidelines allow two Covid-19 vaccines to be mixed.

The US publication reported that UK health officials were allowing patients to be given a second dose that is different to their first.

Fiona Godlee said there was no such recommendation to mix and match.

The UK has approved the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine and the Oxford-AstraZeneca jab.

Ms Godlee said the paper's report was "seriously misleading and requires urgent correction".
 

The Ham

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I can’t remember if we picked up on the potential ‘mix-and-match’ strategy at the time, but either it was nonsense to begin with or something has changed(?)....




I'd seen/heard similar things (although asking the lines of studies being undertaken). I believe that the thinking is that as each vaccine works slightly differently and so by giving the human body two it may learn a more robust way of attaching the virus and so end up with lower infection rates.

It could also allow the process for giving the second vaccine to be simplified, as you'd just need to be given a dose of any approved pairing, rather than having to wait for the correct type.

This could be very helpfully, in that it could allow more of the initial doses to be given as you're not needing them for the second dose of someone who's already had that vaccine if supply is limited.

The problem is that unless that testing has already been started then there's not going to be the data available to show that it works for those who've already had their vaccine.
 

Class 317

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BJ was just on Andrew Marr show. Only 530k AZ vaccines available on Monday. Couldn't answer anymore details on vaccine delivery schedule.
 

The Ham

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BJ was just on Andrew Marr show. Only 530k AZ vaccines available on Monday. Couldn't answer anymore details on vaccine delivery schedule.

Although "only" 530,000 vaccines that's enough to nearly vaccinate 4 times the number of people done in the first week of vaccinations and 2/3rds of the total number of vaccines given until the end of 2021.

Yes it's still 1/2 what's promised (1 million/day, although the number getting a vaccine is likely to be higher than this, because it's only that one vaccine) and a 1/4 of what had been suggested would be best (2 million a day), but hopefully rates will be able to pick up.
 

chris11256

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Apparently 2 million does a week of the AstraZeneca vaccine are due by mid January. Originally reported in the Times, but as that's behind a paywall.

AstraZeneca expects to supply two million doses of COVID-19 vaccine every week in UK -The Times | Reuters
(Reuters) - About two million doses of COVID-19 vaccine developed by Oxford University and AstraZeneca are set to be supplied every week by the middle of January in the United Kingdom, The Times reported.

AstraZeneca expects to supply two million doses of the vaccine in total by next week, the newspaper reported, citing an unnamed member of the Oxford-AstraZeneca team. “The plan is then to build it up fairly rapidly - by the third week of January we should get to two million a week,” the report added.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...cine-every-week-in-uk-the-times-idUSKBN2962NT
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Although "only" 530,000 vaccines that's enough to nearly vaccinate 4 times the number of people done in the first week of vaccinations and 2/3rds of the total number of vaccines given until the end of 2021.

Yes it's still 1/2 what's promised (1 million/day, although the number getting a vaccine is likely to be higher than this, because it's only that one vaccine) and a 1/4 of what had been suggested would be best (2 million a day), but hopefully rates will be able to pick up.
Kate Bingham said we would have 4m doses available by end of 2020 back in November off the back of saying we would have 30m in September. Anyhow over optimism is a trademark of this govt but perhaps thats way it keeps people going in the face of adversity. What I do find frustrating though is that the vaccination minister Nadhim Zahawi isn't out there setting out what the plan is. OK i know the press pounce on everything that is said but better to put out a plan to show people how we are going to get through the next few weeks even if its a bit uncertain than just saying it will come good. If people can see the way forward and that week by week we are making progress they might feel incentivised to just hunker down for a few more weeks and keep transmission rates down.
 
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