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Used Child Ticket - Details Taken

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rkezdog

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Hi, I was travelling from 1 station to another on a child ticket when i am 17. my ticket wouldn’t scan so the woman did then asked my age then gave me a ticket irregularity report. she was highly rude and this is not the first time i have done this, in which she took a photo of but i have never been caught. does anyone have any advice on what will happen?

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Hi same happend to me however i bought a child ticket im sure the fine is only £50 i cant afford £150 that’s ridiculous i bought these tickets like paper tickets at the station can they still see my previous tickets and charge me for them too id rather it just be £50 then get a slap on the wrist but i dont want it to get taken any futher im scared for it to be any more than £50

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On your last 2 points the answers are Yes and depends which offence you are charged with, however if you cooperate with Transpennine Express when they write to you and are contrite with them you will probably be offered an Out of Court Settlement of the full Single ticket fare for each single journey (2 singles for each return journey) without any allowance for what you have already paid you made along with an additional settlement fee of around£150 which if you pay will stop court action
im 16 will the fine just be £50 i don’t understand why i will have an extra fee of £150 i simply cant afford this
 
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rkezdog

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Try not to worry about this. From what we see reported on this website (with the exception of Transport for London cases) most cases are resolved with an out of court settlement providing that the "passenger" engages with the Train Operating Company and does not have a history of fare evasion.

Do buy a railcard as this demonstrates an intention to comply with the fare rules and regulations going forward.

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Isnt the fine normally £100 but £50 of paid in 21 days i am praying this is the case but i have travelled prviois times whilst being over 16 i pray its just £50

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On your last 2 points the answers are Yes and depends which offence you are charged with, however if you cooperate with Transpennine Express when they write to you and are contrite with them you will probably be offered an Out of Court Settlement of the full Single ticket fare for each single journey (2 singles for each return journey) without any allowance for what you have already paid you made along with an additional settlement fee of around£150 which if you pay will stop court action
I thought cos of my age its likely to be £50 not £100 my friends was £100 but im scared because we canr afford it
 

6Gman

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Hi same happend to me however i bought a child ticket im sure the fine is only £50 i cant afford £150 that’s ridiculous i bought these tickets like paper tickets at the station can they still see my previous tickets and charge me for them too id rather it just be £50 then get a slap on the wrist but i dont want it to get taken any futher im scared for it to be any more than £50

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im 16 will the fine just be £50 i don’t understand why i will have an extra fee of £150 i simply cant afford this
It's not quite clear what you are saying/asking here.

Can you explain what exactly has happened in your case?
 

WesternLancer

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Isnt the fine normally £100 but £50 of paid in 21 days i am praying this is the case but i have travelled prviois times whilst being over 16 i pray its just £50

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I thought cos of my age its likely to be £50 not £100 my friends was £100 but im scared because we canr afford it
If you have been issued with a Penalty Fare the sum is £100 penalty (technically not a fine) reduced to £50 if paid promptly plus the value of the fare you should have paid. This is for people who have made ticketing errors.

For people who have deliberately evaded fares there are other options that are more costly which they may be asking from you.

Northern Trains often issue letters for £100 plus fare evaded that are not 'Penalty Fares' but demands for payment to prevent escalation to prosecution in a court. Is it headed 'Fixed Penalty Notice' or 'Fixed Penalty Charge'?. Perhaps this is what you have been asked to pay? You need to read carefully what you have been sent or post an anonymous version here so people can explain.

They won't be interested that you would prefer to pay a lower amount I'm afraid. The best way to avoid that is to buy the correct ticket in the first place....

If you bought a paper ticket at a station with cash it is unlikely they would be able to check to see if you have done this on other occasions.
 
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pedr

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It sounds as if a ticket inspector accused you of travelling with an invalid ticket, in that you bought a child ticket when (in railway terms) you needed an adult one. Is that right? If the inspector took your name and address and other details to send a report to his company, then you haven’t been issued a penalty fare (the railway equivalent of an on the spot fine). Anything you know or read about penalty fares is not relevant to your situation and you will confuse yourself if you think about them.

Instead, the train company will be considering what evidence there is of you committing offences under the various railway laws. At some point in the next few weeks or months they are likely to write to you, or perhaps to your parent or guardian. When they do that, I suggest you post a copy of the letter here (making sure you don’t post your name, address, or anything that identifies your ticket, the case number, etc) and people here can give some advice. They may want to try to investigate how many journeys you’ve made with invalid tickets, and they will want at least payment for those journeys and a meaningful contribution to the cost of investigating, and they are likely to threaten prosecution (although railway companies prosecuting people under 18 is complex so less common than prosecution of adults).
 

WesternLancer

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Isnt the fine normally £100 but £50 of paid in 21 days i am praying this is the case but i have travelled prviois times whilst being over 16 i pray its just £50

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Only if you were given a Penalty Fare - if you were, you will have been given a bit of paper (a bit like a ticket) saying that it is a Penalty Fare I would say. Did that happen?
 

rkezdog

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Only if you were given a Penalty Fare - if you were, you will have been given a bit of paper (a bit like a ticket) saying that it is a Penalty Fare I would say. Did that happen?
I got a ticket that said i will get a letter in the post with a possible fine and it said ticket irregular report

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i
It's not quite clear what you are saying/asking here.

Can you explain what exactly has happened in your case?
purchased a child ticket and got caught they gave me a ticket looking thing saying ticket irregularities report

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If you have been issued with a Penalty Fare the sum is £100 penalty (technically not a fine) reduced to £50 if paid promptly plus the value of the fare you should have paid. This is for people who have made ticketing errors.

For people who have deliberately evaded fares there are other options that are more costly which they may be asking from you.

Northern Trains often issue letters for £100 plus fare evaded that are not 'Penalty Fares' but demands for payment to prevent escalation to prosecution in a court. Is it headed 'Fixed Penalty Notice' or 'Fixed Penalty Charge'?. Perhaps this is what you have been asked to pay? You need to read carefully what you have been sent or post an anonymous version here so people can explain.

They won't be interested that you would prefer to pay a lower amount I'm afraid. The best way to avoid that is to buy the correct ticket in the first place....

If you bought a paper ticket at a station with cash it is unlikely they would be able to check to see if you have done this on other occasions.
I know and im an idiot for buying a childs ticket but is there no way of me getting fined £50 as i would rather this but it was “deliberate” it said on the note ticket irregualrity report

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

It sounds as if a ticket inspector accused you of travelling with an invalid ticket, in that you bought a child ticket when (in railway terms) you needed an adult one. Is that right? If the inspector took your name and address and other details to send a report to his company, then you haven’t been issued a penalty fare (the railway equivalent of an on the spot fine). Anything you know or read about penalty fares is not relevant to your situation and you will confuse yourself if you think about them.

Instead, the train company will be considering what evidence there is of you committing offences under the various railway laws. At some point in the next few weeks or months they are likely to write to you, or perhaps to your parent or guardian. When they do that, I suggest you post a copy of the letter here (making sure you don’t post your name, address, or anything that identifies your ticket, the case number, etc) and people here can give some advice. They may want to try to investigate how many journeys you’ve made with invalid tickets, and they will want at least payment for those journeys and a meaningful contribution to the cost of investigating, and they are likely to threaten prosecution (although railway companies prosecuting people under 18 is complex so less common than prosecution of adults).
do u have any idea how much money this could set me back
 
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WesternLancer

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I got a ticket that said i will get a letter in the post with a possible fine and it said ticket irregular report

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i

purchased a child ticket and got caught they gave me a ticket looking thing saying ticket irregularities report

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I know and im an idiot for buying a childs ticket but is there no way of me getting fined £50 as i would rather this but it was “deliberate” it said on the note ticket irregualrity report
OK - thanks for explaining - so they are taking this more seriously than the Penalty Fare option - and you need to thus do so too. The letter will probably explain they are thinking of prosecuting you in court for fare evasion.

You need to wait for the letter and then come back here for further advice on how to respond to it when you receive it - you will need to respond quickly to avoid the matter going to court and you will need to do that in writing. You need to be sure to watch out for hard copy letter in the post (but if they have an e-mail address check that and check your spam folder regularly too)

I'm afraid this is likely to cost you more than £100. I think there is no probability of them asking you for £50 so you need to be prepared for that.

You should read this from Norther Trains to get an idea of what to expect in more detail:

 

rkezdog

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i’m really scared i don’t understand why its this serious to put me in this much state of a panic i don’t get it
 
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It's serious because you deliberately avoided paying the correct fare by buying a cheaper child ticket, and it sounds like you've done it more than once. That's dishonest and that's a serious matter.
 

rkezdog

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It's serious because you deliberately avoided paying the correct fare by buying a cheaper child ticket, and it sounds like you've done it more than once. That's dishonest and that's a serious matter.
What if it was a mistake ? I would learn my lesson bur £150 me or my family dont have the money for this it’s ridiculous i would learn my lesson off a £50 fine
 

L401CJF

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Ultimately it is a criminal offence to travel without a valid ticket, and such things come with consequences when caught.

It is out of your hands, the best course of action would be to wait for a letter to arrive and post it here for experts to advise on (with personal details covered). In the mean time pay the correct fare, and maybe even buy a railcard to obtain legitimate discounts (16-17 saver if eligible gets you 50% off fares, or a 16-25 railcard gets you 1/3 off) which would show you have learnt your lesson and taken steps to avoid similar in future. These sort of things would make an out of court settlement more likely.
 

Fawkes Cat

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What if it was a mistake ? I would learn my lesson bur £150 me or my family dont have the money for this it’s ridiculous i would learn my lesson off a £50 fine
But earlier you told us
i have travelled prviois times whilst being over 16
Doing it once might be a mistake. Can you understand why the railway might see you doing it more than once as doing it on purpose?

What you are now finding out the hard way is that if you break the rules you get punished. And punishments are meant to be unpleasant enough to make sure that you don't break the rules again. From what you say, having to find £150 will not be easy. But what you will - hopefully - learn from this is that it is easier and cheaper to pay the right fare in the first place. That way, you won't have to have all the difficulty of dealing with letters or suddenly having to find £150.

If you really don't have £150 that you or your family can put to hand, you may - although it will be embarrassing - need to think if there is anyone who can help you with this. Think about whether you live in a wider community: this might be a faith group (church/mosque/temple/synagogue and so on) or a national or ethnic group (Polish Club or whatever). While it will be humiliating having to ask the secretary/treasurer/elder/priest/minister/etc., it may be a way to avoid having the railway pursuing you or taking you to court. Obviously you should also avoid loan sharks.
 

rkezdog

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i was expecting it to be £50 and taking it on the chin but £150 is a big shock to fine a 16year old
 

6Gman

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What if it was a mistake ? I would learn my lesson bur £150 me or my family dont have the money for this it’s ridiculous i would learn my lesson off a £50 fine
How did you buy the ticket?

If you went to a booking office they would only have sold you a child ticket if you asked for such a ticket*. So it's hard to see how that could be a "mistake".

I rarely use ticket machines but on those I've used you would need to specifically press a button to buy a child ticket.

I don't use apps or booking sites but again I assume a child ticket has to be specifically chosen.

So it's hard to see how this could be done by "mistake".

Ultimately you were using a ticket you weren't entitled to use and will need to face the consequences.


* It is possible, but unlikely, that a booking clerk could press the wrong button by mistake and you'd be hard pressed to convince the railway company that such a thing had happened.
 

Islineclear3_1

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If the OP is 16, what's the likelihood of prosecution?

Children between 10 and 17 can be arrested and taken to court if they commit a crime.

They are treated differently from adults and are:

  • dealt with by youth courts
  • given different sentences
  • sent to special secure centres for young people, not adult prisons



Children between 10 and 17 can be arrested and taken to court if they commit a crime.
 

Fawkes Cat

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Having re-read the thread, I see that @L401CJF has hit the nail on the head: the railway don't yet seem to have written to the OP (or their parents). So it might not be £150, and it might not go to prosecution. So I think the best advice we can now give is

- don't panic: even if it's expensive it won't be the end of the world
- make a note of exactly what happened on this and any previous occasions: it's easy to forget details so write them down now
- it could be expensive, so start saving money just in case
- try and relax until you get the letter (remember there's no post over Christmas, so if you don't get something by Saturday you won't get anything before next Wednesday)
- when you do get the letter, come back to us and we'll try to help you deal with your exact problem
 

Mcr Warrior

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Children between 10 and 17 can be arrested and taken to court if they commit a crime.
Having said that, Northern's Revenue Protection Policy document (linked upthread in post #8 by @WesternLancer) does seem to suggest, at Clause 6.1, that, where appropriate, Northern Trains Ltd will seek to divert young people away from the Criminal Justice System.
 

rkezdog

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How did you buy the ticket?

If you went to a booking office they would only have sold you a child ticket if you asked for such a ticket*. So it's hard to see how that could be a "mistake".

I rarely use ticket machines but on those I've used you would need to specifically press a button to buy a child ticket.

I don't use apps or booking sites but again I assume a child ticket has to be specifically chosen.

So it's hard to see how this could be done by "mistake".

Ultimately you were using a ticket you weren't entitled to use and will need to face the consequences.


* It is possible, but unlikely, that a booking clerk could press the wrong button by mistake and you'd be hard pressed to convince the railway company that such a thing had happened.
Me and my friend went to the office and he pressumed I was a child that is no fault of mine
 

Haywain

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Me and my friend went to the office and he pressumed I was a child that is no fault of mine
Who presumed you were a child? Your friend? Please consider that there is no offence in buying a ticket that you are not entitled to - the offence is committed in using or attempting to use the ticket.
 

WesternLancer

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Me and my friend went to the office and he pressumed I was a child that is no fault of mine
so you are saying you went to a ticket office - asked for a ticket from A to B - and got given a child ticket without asking for a child rate one?

If so that is the sort of thing you can explain in your reply to them when they write to you - the letter will probably ask for 'your version of events' - but you will have to wait and see when you get the letter.
 

pdq

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Did you ask for a 'child ticket' or just a ticket?
It does seem to me that you need to start taking a little more responsibility for your actions. You give the impression that you were treating the purchase of child tickets - to which you were not entitled - as a bit of a game. You were expecting the cost, if caught, to be £50 and it has come as a bit of a wake-up call to find that it's not necessarily the case.

You're in good hands here though. As long as you are honest and upfront with those trying to help you, you'll get good advice to help you learn and grow from this experience with the least financial impact.
 

rkezdog

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Did you ask for a 'child ticket' or just a ticket?
It does seem to me that you need to start taking a little more responsibility for your actions. You give the impression that you were treating the purchase of child tickets - to which you were not entitled - as a bit of a game. You were expecting the cost, if caught, to be £50 and it has come as a bit of a wake-up call to find that it's not necessarily the case.

You're in good hands here though. As long as you are honest and upfront with those trying to help you, you'll get good advice to help you learn and grow from this experience with the least financial impact.
Yea i know i will learn and its a lesson for me to mature, if its £50 i dont midn but everyone is telling me 150 but it wont be 50 as its not an official fine

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Did you ask for a 'child ticket' or just a ticket?
It does seem to me that you need to start taking a little more responsibility for your actions. You give the impression that you were treating the purchase of child tickets - to which you were not entitled - as a bit of a game. You were expecting the cost, if caught, to be £50 and it has come as a bit of a wake-up call to find that it's not necessarily the case.

You're in good hands here though. As long as you are honest and upfront with those trying to help you, you'll get good advice to help you learn and grow from this experience with the least financial impact.
This has never happened before and i would still be annoyed, but 150 is an inhumane amount of money i think its an outrage especially right before christmas its a joke
 

rkezdog

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It is no joke. This could potentially be a very serious matter

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im saying it as a figure of speech its a joke like its ridiculous how much the fine is i commited an offence i own up to that i do but a very serious matter, i used the wrong ticket ffs
 

WesternLancer

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Yea i know i will learn and its a lesson for me to mature, if its £50 i dont midn but everyone is telling me 150 but it wont be 50 as its not an official fine

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This has never happened before and i would still be annoyed, but 150 is an inhumane amount of money i think its an outrage especially right before christmas its a joke
The point is they want you to mind. They want you to not do it again, ever, they want you to tell your friends not to do it.

They do not want people to think - "i'll dodge the fare and if I get caught it will be £50 so I'll chance my luck because I don't mind paying £50"

You also need to be clear that no one is saying at this stage it will be £150 - it may be more, or it may be a bit less. You can not know yet until they write to you and see what they say.

Of course it is bad news it's just before Christmas, but the rules (and the law) don't have an exemption at Christmas time sadly.
 

island

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And to be clear, you, the person who has committed several criminal offences, do not get to choose your own punishment.
 
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