43096
On Moderation
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Definitely not for 458/0+458/5 as they had very different couplers: 458/0 Tightlock and 458/5 Dellner/Scharfenberg.
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Unusual multiple unit couplings
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NSEWonderer
Established Member
Says in description of the video
Found a video of one of the 171+171+171+171+171 ten coach formations formed of five units mentioned earlier on:
This makes me wonder whether or not SWR have ever operated any 158+158+158+158+158 ten coach trains formed of five units before. They have regularly run ten coach trains but it always seems to be just four units of two 158s and two 159s coupled. Surely they have run five 158s at some point. I have never seen it happen but it would certainly be possible.
Back in the days when SWR had 170s i remember seeing both a 159+170+159 once and a 170+159+170 once. It looks so strange when you get a Turbostar sandwiched between two Sprinter units or when you get a Sprinter sandwiched between two Turbostar units.
Similarly back when SWR had both 455s and 456s you could occasionally get them sandwiched between each other. They have operated both 455+456+455 formations and 456+455+456 formations before.
This makes me wonder whether or not SWR have ever operated any 158+158+158+158+158 ten coach trains formed of five units before. They have regularly run ten coach trains but it always seems to be just four units of two 158s and two 159s coupled. Surely they have run five 158s at some point. I have never seen it happen but it would certainly be possible.
Back in the days when SWR had 170s i remember seeing both a 159+170+159 once and a 170+159+170 once. It looks so strange when you get a Turbostar sandwiched between two Sprinter units or when you get a Sprinter sandwiched between two Turbostar units.
Similarly back when SWR had both 455s and 456s you could occasionally get them sandwiched between each other. They have operated both 455+456+455 formations and 456+455+456 formations before.
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Wyrleybart
Established Member
That was because the 22x and 390s were procured by Virgin with different height couplers to all other Dellner stock. I remember a Virgin Birmingham driver taking a 57/3 up to Soho to see if it would couple to a class 323.
nlogax
Established Member
Nice shot!
I thought 323’s were tightlock couplers?
LiftFan
Member
- Joined
- 27 May 2016
- Messages
- 368
I'm not sure where I saw it now but I could have sworn it wasn't long ago due to OLE issues Scotrail coupled a Class 156 to a 318/320 to rescue it. That being said, it doesn't quite beat the HST which ended up being rescued by a loaded 59!
I’m pretty certain that sprinter fleets can only have a maximum of 8 cabs due to the electrical signals degrading through the coupling which can result in dragging brakes on the rear unit. Not to say it can’t be done, but believe it’s best practice to avoid.
A very rare 16 coach 745+755 formation has happened on an ECS move recently. Not sure exactly when this happened but i came across these being shared on social media this morning.
First time i have ever heard of a 745+755 being coupled together so i wonder if it is happened before? Are they capable of this under normal ECS workings or is it for emergencies only?
Two photos of it that i have found here:
Also if i remember correctly there are also some rare multiple 755 formations occasionally replacing 745 units on London Liverpool Street to Norwich services. Sonething like at least three 755 units coupled.
Can anyone confirm what multiple formations that the 755s are able to run in under passenger service? I think they can run up to quite a long length and possibly even twelve cars?
Potentially there are ten different possible formations up to ten car length:
3CAR (1xUnit):
755/3
4CAR (1xUnit):
755/4
6CAR (1xUnit):
755/3+755/3
7CAR (2xUnits):
755/3+755/4
755/4+755/3
8CAR (1xUnit):
755/4+755/4
9CAR (3xUnits):
755/3+755/3+755/3
10CAR (3xUnits):
755/3+755/3+755/4
755/3+755/4+755/3
755/4+755/3+755/3
11CAR (3xUnits):
755/3+755/4+755/4
755/4+755/3+755/4
755/4+755/4+755/3
12CAR (3xUnits):
755/4+755/4+755/4
12CAR (4xUnits):
755/3+755/3+755/3+755/3
I think the actual 755s carriage lengths are much shorter than other trains. So even with the extra power pack carriages i think twelve coach formations may fit on the platforms.
Are all of these above formations possible? If so have they all happened before in the past?
I remember ages ago seeing a long formation of 755s on a London Liverpool Street to Norwich service. I can not remember exactly how it was formed but it seems like it definitely happens on rare occasions.
First time i have ever heard of a 745+755 being coupled together so i wonder if it is happened before? Are they capable of this under normal ECS workings or is it for emergencies only?
Two photos of it that i have found here:
Also if i remember correctly there are also some rare multiple 755 formations occasionally replacing 745 units on London Liverpool Street to Norwich services. Sonething like at least three 755 units coupled.
Can anyone confirm what multiple formations that the 755s are able to run in under passenger service? I think they can run up to quite a long length and possibly even twelve cars?
Potentially there are ten different possible formations up to ten car length:
3CAR (1xUnit):
755/3
4CAR (1xUnit):
755/4
6CAR (1xUnit):
755/3+755/3
7CAR (2xUnits):
755/3+755/4
755/4+755/3
8CAR (1xUnit):
755/4+755/4
9CAR (3xUnits):
755/3+755/3+755/3
10CAR (3xUnits):
755/3+755/3+755/4
755/3+755/4+755/3
755/4+755/3+755/3
11CAR (3xUnits):
755/3+755/4+755/4
755/4+755/3+755/4
755/4+755/4+755/3
12CAR (3xUnits):
755/4+755/4+755/4
12CAR (4xUnits):
755/3+755/3+755/3+755/3
I think the actual 755s carriage lengths are much shorter than other trains. So even with the extra power pack carriages i think twelve coach formations may fit on the platforms.
Are all of these above formations possible? If so have they all happened before in the past?
I remember ages ago seeing a long formation of 755s on a London Liverpool Street to Norwich service. I can not remember exactly how it was formed but it seems like it definitely happens on rare occasions.
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
I think the longest 755 formation that can be used on London-Norwich is 11 car, due to the extra space taken up by the power packs compared to a 745
Royston Vasey
Established Member
11 cars are currently planned and used daily on Liverpool Street to Norwich due to 745 shortage.
Sitting at this moment on platform 12 at Liverpool Street, this morning's 1P18 10:00 to Norwich formed of 755406 + 755420 + 755329, having worked 1P15 0730 Norwich to Liverpool Street. They plan it as such and do not sell First Class tickets for those journeys.
Tetragon213
Member
Regarding the Pacers and Sprinters/Turbostars, I've heard stories of a Pacer/early Sprinter rated for 75mph being attached to the back of a 158/170 rated for 90/100mph respectively; the driver, however, forgot they had a limited to 75 unit on the back, and so took their trains up to 90/100mph.
The end result varies from either the roughest ever Pacer ride, to a ruined set of engines.
Does anyone know if this has ever actually happened before? A driver dragging a unit to well above its rated speed simply because they forgot it was there?
Ah thank you. I had not realised that it was booked. More common that i thought. Reminds me of the old days when you when often get substitutions resulting in 150 / 153 / 156 / 170 units on Norwich to London Liverpool Street services.
745s don't have electrical contacts on their couplers and the coupler can only be used for emergencies. Both a 15-coach 755/3 and 745, and 16-coach 755/4 and 745 have been run. They run at half linespeed IIRC.
As others have said, the 755 combinations run daily and are limited in length, but the actual limit would be triple 755/4 if platforms were extended. Any combination and orientation of 755s are possible (up to 3 in multiple) but the pantograph must be spaced out adequately or they will have to run on diesel.
A "triple traction" set went via Lowestoft after Ipswich recently when there was a problem at Stowmarket, or so I've heard on this forum. That is the one benefit of still being bi-mode.
andy33gmail
Member
Sounds ideal for a direct Kings Lynn-Cambridge (Platform 1 et al) - Kings Cross service?
norbitonflyer
Established Member
Not above the rated road speed, but very much over the rated engine speed. The DMUs that later became classes 113 and 127 were originally given blue square coupling codes, like most other DMUs (classes 100-124 and 128), but they had automatic (hydraulic) transmissions. They had a gear shift so the driver could control the gears of any mechanical unit further back in the train, but it was too easy to forget, resulting in damaged engines in the second unit as it was made to run at high speed in first gear.
So the 113s and 127s were given a different coupling code and not allowed to work in multiple with other classes.
I just found this rare one of a 375 and a 395 coupled to each other from quite a few years ago:
I believe this one was rescuing the other for a short distance as the two are not really compatible besides being able to couple in emergencies.
There was also this rare hybrid 165 formation with a driving carriage in the middle in the early 2000s for a few months:
Similar things have been done with 150 / 153 / 156 / 158 units (where you have a driving cab carriage in the middle) but with a 165 is so strange because unlike the Sprinter units you have no gangway and the gangway door had to be locked off.
Another one of those unusual 150 plus 153 two coach hybrid formations here:
These were mentioned earlier in the thread but it seems that there was actually more than one occassion of these.
Also a few images of the 375+376 and the 376+377 empty stock formations:
These formations of 375+376 and 376+377 are actually becoming quite common nowadays on ECS services and seem to happen at least once every few months.
Lastly i found some videos of the rare 24 coach Class 700 workings from years ago:
I believe this was done specifically to test the multiple working ability (in case a unit had to rescue another unit) and the spent a couple of nights going back and forth between Bedford and Three Bridges as a 24 coach Class 700 train.
I believe this one was rescuing the other for a short distance as the two are not really compatible besides being able to couple in emergencies.
There was also this rare hybrid 165 formation with a driving carriage in the middle in the early 2000s for a few months:
Similar things have been done with 150 / 153 / 156 / 158 units (where you have a driving cab carriage in the middle) but with a 165 is so strange because unlike the Sprinter units you have no gangway and the gangway door had to be locked off.
Another one of those unusual 150 plus 153 two coach hybrid formations here:
These were mentioned earlier in the thread but it seems that there was actually more than one occassion of these.
Also a few images of the 375+376 and the 376+377 empty stock formations:
These formations of 375+376 and 376+377 are actually becoming quite common nowadays on ECS services and seem to happen at least once every few months.
Lastly i found some videos of the rare 24 coach Class 700 workings from years ago:
I believe this was done specifically to test the multiple working ability (in case a unit had to rescue another unit) and the spent a couple of nights going back and forth between Bedford and Three Bridges as a 24 coach Class 700 train.
norbitonflyer
Established Member
Very common with 1st generation DMUs though ( here a class 100 driving car coupled to a 2-car class 101 set)
It was quite common also for a class 121 "bubble car" (non-gangwayed) to deputise for a class 117 driving motor coach. This meant one of the cabs of the single unit was coupled to the (gangwayed) end of the intermediate trailer. as seen here (note the yellow face giving away the presence of a driving cab at the rear end of the leading car) the
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Class73Electro
Member
I'm sure there was also a snow rescue, but 1001 (Class 201 DEMU) dragging broken down 375s?
(Sadly not my video - not seen it myself)
(Sadly not my video - not seen it myself)
themiller
Established Member
I have a poor scan of a hybrid 158/156 unit at Manchester. The vehicle numbers were 57481 and 52751.
RailWonderer
Established Member
London Midland regularly ran 153s with 170s which was always a strange one. I'd rather stand in the 170 in the winter than sit in the 153.
Trainman40083
Established Member
I used to catch a train from Derby, early in the morning. Into Derby, it was formed of a Class 153 single car coupled to a Class 170. Many days they didn't seem to like each other, coming to an abrupt stop when moving.
Juniper Driver
Established Member
Used to be 159 and 170s.
Bevan Price
Established Member
- Joined
- 22 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 8,316
No photo unfortunately, but the most unusual combination I ever saw, in the 1960s, west of Reading, was an engineer's train consisting of a single bubble car towing a few wagons.....
Class73Electro
Member
Class 700s being shunted by a Thumper DEMU at Three Bridges?
Peeled Apples
Member
That was a regular occurrence on the Chase line
Cavendish1
Member
- Joined
- 3 Apr 2019
- Messages
- 44
2 of the workings that stand out from my time on the railway, a 142/158 combo on what was then the through 0945 Leeds to Glasgow around 2000, not sure how far the 142 actually got, and a Sunday morning Man Picc to Llandudno service, formed of a 158, 2 x 150, a 142 and a 153. Just the 158 in public use, the rest going for the weekly duties in N Wales. Was a pic of it in a rail magazine at the time, but cant find.
TwinTurbostar
Member
Indeed, it also happened fairly often on the Snow Hill lines.