Unidentified crossing keeper's cottage

[Nottingham59]

Looking at Aston-by-Stone on Streetview makes me think that the barge boards are similar, but not identical. So it is not guaranteed Knotty.

Found this- also North Staffs by 'Googling' on < Railway Crossing Keepers Cottage> and images, took me to this: https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1297504?section=comments-and-photos

However it's red brick and tile, with stone features-but does have the chimneys on the diagonal.

That's two near hits on the same line. Are there any other surviving crossing keeper cottages on the North Staffs with the distinctive diagonal chimneys? Maybe elsewhere on the North Staffs network, with other local brickworks?


EDIT: Wedgwood Drive also has diagonal chimneys.

 

[Shrewbly]

Going on the OPs suggestion that similar cottages have been noted in Northamptonshire, I found this photo on Flickr of Desborough station:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49024867341_64c380a0c3_b.jpg

Both the barge board on the end of the station and the top half of the chimneys look very similar to the crossing cottage (although not angled). Could the crossing possibly be in this area of the Midland Railway?

 

[Gloster]

Unfortunately there are a lot of bargeboards in styles that are similar to this but not identical. As far as the bargeboards are concerned, it would be necessary to find a location with identical bargeboards and hope that the decoration was a standard design for a line. The same can pretty well be said about chimneys, although there were fewer variations.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Given the Hertfordshire car registration no., I'm wondering whether this is Litlington Level Crossing - just over the border in Cambridgeshire - on the Hitchin - Cambridge line?

Litlington

It is double track, the topography is right, the architecture is very GN, the gates and signalling very LNER. It is just AHB now - unfortunately I can't find any images of what the crossing keeper's cottage might have looked like.

 

[Gloster]

Given the Hertfordshire car registration no., I'm wondering whether this is Litlington Level Crossing - just over the border in Cambridgeshire - on the Hitchin - Cambridge line?

Litlington

It is double track, the topography is right, the architecture is very GN, the gates and signalling very LNER. It is just AHB now - unfortunately I can't find any images of what the crossing keeper's cottage might have looked like.

It fits in most ways, but is there enough space where the equipment hut is to fit the cottage in: the modern view shows the corner of the field as very close? The 1903 25” also shows the signal posts as being a bit further out and I doubt that they would have been moved closer to the crossing in the meantime.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

The footprint of the cottage on the map is similar, but yes, the signal is in the wrong place and unlikely to have been moved. It looks like the Morris 10 was more widely travelled than its native county - nothing else in Herts. remotely fits. It was very remiss of the photographer not to have waited for a train to include in the shot to give us more of a clue 75 years later! I still think this in the Eastern Counties somewhere - fancy chimneys are very much a feature of Lincolnshire architecture.

 

[Rescars]

It's also a pity the photographer omitted to take a similar shot from the other side of the tracks. We might have seen a bit more if the cottage then - and possibly other details as well! As a more general point, how commonplace was it in LNER territory (a reasonable assumption it seems) for a set of gates to be worked from a gatekeepers cottage when protected by signals? Surely most crossings of this complexity (signals, wicket gates, etc) would have been worked from a crossing box, even if the gates were opened and closed manually. The signal suggests this isn't some isolated mid-section crossing. Is the signal we can see a home or could it be a starter? I wonder what other infrastructure was adjacent.

 

[Magdalia]

Given the Hertfordshire car registration no., I'm wondering whether this is Litlington Level Crossing - just over the border in Cambridgeshire - on the Hitchin - Cambridge line?

Litlington

It is double track, the topography is right, the architecture is very GN, the gates and signalling very LNER. It is just AHB now - unfortunately I can't find any images of what the crossing keeper's cottage might have looked like.

I have used Litlington crossing many times. I think the picture is not Litlington.

At Litlington the railway is on a low embankment, which can be seen on pictures of trains approaching the crossing and photographed from the road. There is a distinct hump in the road to take it over the tracks.

 

[Taunton]

There is a distinct hump in the road to take it over the tracks.

These are general all around, even overseas, and arise from the railway becoming progressively higher than the surrounding land. One cause is periodic reballasting slowly building up track level, possibly to increase robustness and line speed compared to how it was built; another is where land is drained to become managed farmland, and thus the adjacent land falls relative to the railway built now nearly 200 years ago. East Anglia is particularly prone to this (so are the Somerset Levels).

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Apologies if I have missed anything in the replies above;

2) The architectural style of the cottage may point to a specific railway company? The chimney sort of says Midland Railway to me?

But, if the location was Midland, I would have thought (perhaps?) that some of the palisade fencing visible, albeit there isn't much on view, would have been typical MR slanted type, as per a lot of same on the M&GN. Just a thought?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Apologies if I have missed anything in the replies above;

But, if the location was Midland, I would have thought (perhaps?) that some of the palisade fencing visible, albeit there isn't much on view, would have been typical MR slanted type, as per a lot of same on the M&GN. Just a thought?

Hmm... I was thinking Midland because of the style of chimneys on a number of Midland stations, like Market Harborough ( yes I know that's much bigger! ).

I note that someone has since pointed out that chimneys at an angle are associated with another company, though.


Have you tried putting this on Twitter and tagging in Robert Humm? While they're closing the shop, they will remain active on Twitter, particularly with their #WhatStation series and this is of similar nature to that...

 

[stuving]

What does anyone else make of that black shape above the gate and fences on the left? I at first thought print damage, but the white below it is behind the cap of the gatepost. The black is too dense to be a smudge (as at the top) or another field tree, but too irregular to be a building or industrial.

I've been trying to make it out as either a statue on a white plinth, or a cypress hedge seen lengthwise above something white. But so far it still looks like an unexplained funny shape.

 

[WesternLancer]

Any thought on this one? Similar cottages with the same angled chimneys have been noted in Northamptonshire but perhaps the design was widespread.


View attachment 166502

Do you have any other info that might give more clues -
eg where did you get the picture from?
was it in a batch of other pictures and are any of them any help in giving relevant clues?
are there any marks at all on the reverse or anything like that?

 

[BrianW]

What does anyone else make of that black shape above the gate and fences on the left? I at first thought print damage, but the white below it is behind the cap of the gatepost. The black is too dense to be a smudge (as at the top) or another field tree, but too irregular to be a building or industrial.

I've been trying to make it out as either a statue on a white plinth, or a cypress hedge seen lengthwise above something white. But so far it still looks like an unexplained funny shape.

Looking at the gatepost caps, those on the left appear to be out of line with the reflector posts in the foreground. Might there be a road junction there on the left beyond the crossing?

Looking at the fencing and gates, a variety of heights and paling top shapes? I note especially the higher (and, unusually, white painted?) fencing seen through and above the crossing gate to the right?

And what looks like a white-ish signboard beyond the crossing on the right hand sign?- maybe a station sign?

I'm still wondering why the signal post is so high- the flatness (and probably straightness?) of the line and the fact of this level crossing, make it unlikely there is an intrusion into line of sight such as a bridge.

The rail positions seem to suggest double track, so will maybe have 'survived Beeching'; the signal will almost certainly not have; and the crossing may have been closed and 'lost'- all rather 'unhelpful' to this quest

Anyone knowledgeable about trees? The big one on the right could be listed and still in existence? The cypress suggested by <stuving> seems more likely in Van Gogh's south of France.

 

[edwin_m]

What does anyone else make of that black shape above the gate and fences on the left? I at first thought print damage, but the white below it is behind the cap of the gatepost. The black is too dense to be a smudge (as at the top) or another field tree, but too irregular to be a building or industrial.

I've been trying to make it out as either a statue on a white plinth, or a cypress hedge seen lengthwise above something white. But so far it still looks like an unexplained funny shape.

The edge of it lines up with a crack or crease in the photo, as does a similar but smaller "splodge" further up. I'm thinking damage to the negative or print has peeled off the emulsion layer.

 

[Nottingham59]

Similar cottages with the same angled chimneys have been noted in Northamptonshire

do we know precisely where in Northamptonshire?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I'm still wondering why the signal post is so high- the flatness (and probably straightness?) of the line and the fact of this level crossing, make it unlikely there is an intrusion into line of sight such as a bridge.

Could the line be on a curve to the right of the picture, meaning the cottage would otherwise obscure the signal?

In which case we'd have to ask why the cottage wasn't just built on the other side of the line... so we can deduce there's another visual obstruction off to the right of the picture. Maybe a signalbox?

 

[The exile]

For a level-crossing closure to have led to a queue of at least 3 cars it must have been a reasonably significant road (or quite a coincidence)!

 

[LYradial]

I am wondering if, when the photo was taken this cottage had already been sold off and the gates and signals controlled by a small block box nearby.

i cannot visualise a gatekeeper and his wife being able to open and close these gates 24 hours a day seven days a week if this is a reasonably busy main line.

 

[Gloster]

It did strike me as a possibility that the crossing-keeper had been superseded by an out of shot signal box. However, the cottage could well be retained by the railway as a staff house; even then there were problems about selling buildings right alongside the track.

I still think that, except for the bargeboards, there is no distinctive detail in the photo, while crossing-keepers cottages were numerous but limited in variety. So unless someone definitely identifies the specific cottage or is able to say that that exact bargeboard design was used on the X-Y line, we won’t be able to identify it.

 

[LYradial]

There is always one exception, note the barge boards, it is actually inside the barriers

Aston-by-stone Level Crossing - The ABC Railway Guide

Aston-by-stone Level Crossing at the ABC Railway Guide.

abcrailwayguide.uk

 

[Ashley Hill]

Double gates does suggest double track,there may be a gate stop too suggesting wheel operated gates. Height of signal may be for sighting from a distance or to raise it clear of the crossing for sighting. Black smudge on left could be a lamp?

 

[The exile]

There is always one exception, note the barge boards, it is actually inside the barriers

Aston-by-stone Level Crossing - The ABC Railway Guide

Aston-by-stone Level Crossing at the ABC Railway Guide.

abcrailwayguide.uk

Being pedantic (heaven forfend!) it is nearer the track than the level crossing barriers, but still outside the fence.
Certainly very similar barge boards but without the finial post and with a much more decorative tiled roof.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Couple more comments: the tall signal could still indicate an overbridge off to the right restricting the drivers view of the approaching crossing signal (if at normal height)? The barrier design might also be a clue: three horizontal strengthening ties across each gate, as opposed to the mesh type backing on many gates, as was.
Did find some fancy barge boards on some stations between Sleaford and Bourne (GNR), but not quite the same design, although that route was single line with passing loops, as this one might be of course?
I too think the barge board design will be the clincher to general area, if evidence can be found of any other buildings with same.

 

[WesternLancer]

I too think the barge board design will be the clincher to general area, if evidence can be found of any other buildings with same.

The thing I thought was noticeable about the barge boards were the 2 small 'spikes' at the concave section of the curved outer section.

If I have compared it accurately these do appear to be the same as the North Staffs Railway example at Aston-By-Stone (I think it was mentioned that is NSR structure) level crossing visible today mentioned above (even tho it's not the same location IMO for other obvious reasons). I note that one does not have the impressive finial at the ridge as shown in the mystery photo - but finials are prone to rot due to exposed end grain of the wood and often just get sawn off rather than copied and replaced.

But I have no idea if that style of barge board was unique to the NSR - I suspect perhaps not.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

There is always one exception, note the barge boards, it is actually inside the barriers

Aston-by-stone Level Crossing - The ABC Railway Guide

Aston-by-stone Level Crossing at the ABC Railway Guide.

abcrailwayguide.uk

Certainly very similar barge boards but without the finial post and with a much more decorative tiled roof.

Very nearly identical boards, and lack of finial is probably neither here or there, if the building (roof) is not an exact match or the things rotted out over time? Am a bit stumped on North Staffs architecture though, not being local, have nether found a need to acquire any books on the subject..and being the main line (Stone) is today, most former crossings will have long been converted to dive under or over bridge (road wise) or just done away with, so research is so much harder!

 

[BrianW]

Very nearly identical boards, and lack of finial is probably neither here or there, if the building (roof) is not an exact match or the things rotted out over time? Am a bit stumped on North Staffs architecture though, not being local, have nether found a need to acquire any books on the subject..and being the main line (Stone) is today, most former crossings will have long been converted to dive under or over bridge (road wise) or just done away with, so research is so much harder!

Family resemblance?: https://signalbox.org/photo-gallery/north-staffordshire-railway/stallington/

Leigh? 'Uttoxeter Branch'; https://www.google.com/maps/@52.919...try=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkyOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw==
Take a look at the Google Earth shot?Topography. Trees? 'railway building'?

Or Mow Cop track diagram- note home signals? https://signalbox.org/~SBdiagram.php/?id= 896

 

[Rescars]

One detail no one has mentioned so far is the telegraph pole. Does the number of insulators give any hints about the complexity or otherwise of the local layout? Typical for a straightforward stretch of double track perhaps? Presumably there would be more if there were several signal boxes or a junction nearby and fewer if this was a remote branch line. Do any S&T experts have any thoughts about this?

 

[Magdalia]

These are general all around, even overseas, and arise from the railway becoming progressively higher than the surrounding land. One cause is periodic reballasting slowly building up track level, possibly to increase robustness and line speed compared to how it was built; another is where land is drained to become managed farmland, and thus the adjacent land falls relative to the railway built now nearly 200 years ago. East Anglia is particularly prone to this (so are the Somerset Levels).

In the Fens I'd agree, but Litlington is chalk.

 

[Pigeon]

Trying to dig old photos of North Staffs routes out of the internet, I find examples of an exact match with the bargeboards, including the finial (as well as not-quite matches), the chimney stacks (as well as numerous similar styles), the telegraph poles (size and positioning of crossbars, pair of steps apparently too close below the crossbars to be of any use) and the signal (style, height, cap on pole). Just no photos with all four of these elements in the same picture.

What I haven't found is any picture of a North Staffs crossing with gates that have pairs of diagonal cross-braces at opposite inclinations. They all seem to just have a single diagonal brace per panel. Still, it's always possible that something went through the original gates and they were replaced with a later standard pattern.

I read the car registration as KJW745, which is Wolverhampton, so not all that far away.

I agree that there is probably a road joining from the left immediately after the crossing. The crossing widens significantly towards that corner - the far wicket gate is way out of line - and there is road surface visible between the bars of the gates where it would otherwise be verge.

I don't think the black splodge is real, unless it is a gigantic horse with one eye, no ears and an attempt at doing its mane in a Mohican.

I don't think the "flat surroundings" are indicative of it necessarily being in one of the parts of England that were only dubiously land until a few centuries ago. I doubt the furthest bit of background visible in that photo is even half a mile away; it just hazes out. There are small flat bits all over the place, they do tend to attract level crossings, and even good-quality un-hazy photos of level crossings so sited do tend to make it look as if the thing is in the middle of a vast and endless plain when it actually isn't. It's also an unusually level level crossing, with next to no elevation of the road to cross the tracks, which suggests that the underlying ground conditions are unusually firm rather than soggy.