Unable to alight at Erith!

[Nym]

Mine is more bluepeterey though But yeah, postits, some paper and blutac, anything, even a whiteboard marker on the windscreen...

 

[O L Leigh]

NXEA EMUs have a slider on the cab desk for 4, 8 and 12 car trains.

However, they are only any good if they have been set up correctly. For example, if a train has been worked down to Chingford as a 4 car and then another unit attachs before going back up to Liv St there's a very good chance it will still show 4 in the country end cab.

This is all fine when you're at a terminus station and have to walk the length of the train to get to the front, but if you relieve the train en route, particularly at a location where all trains stop at the same point along the platform, there is no such help and you are reliant on checking for yourself. We had a stop-short some years back that was as a result of just this sort of thing happening.

Then you get those services that are always one length of train except under certain circumstances. A while ago all StanEx services were booked 4 cars on Saturday but were 8 cars the rest of the time. It was not unheard of for a driver to forget and go sailing past the 4 car stop board and stop up at the 8 car board. Likewise before the Dec TT change there was only one 4 car Cl379 diagram while all the rest ran as 8 cars.

There are lots of pitfalls that can result on a stop-short. It is something that the TOCs take seriously and try to ensure that drivers don't fall into the trap of stopping at the wrong point on the platform. In addition to the in-cab reminders we have been issued with our own train length reminder cards, and some drivers mark up their schedule cards too. But it is up to the driver to remember,

O L Leigh

 

[fgwrich]

Surely that can't be too difficult, as the announcements invariably say "this is coach 4 of 7"

And some Electrostars have been rather prone to announce '' This is Coach Number 12 of 8'' (Ive also had electrostars also announce coach X of 4, even though it was an 8 car!) ...Only Bombardier could come up with that, a 'wishfull thinking' pa system perhaps?

 

[BestWestern]

There have been plenty of stop short doors release with a guard releasing said doors - its going to happen occasionally whatever the policies as its simply human error...

It is, but when a Guard does it it'll generally be down to them failing to carry out their 'local door' operation and platform checks properly, which can be dealt with through the competence training and if needed disciplinary procedures. There is at least a system of working in place which should prevent it. With a DOO or Driver-released doors situation the Driver is safely tucked up in his cab nowhere near the platform-train interface, and has nothing between him stopping the train short and immediately hitting the buttons to bring his attention to his mistake. I prefer the first option personally.

 

[TheJRB]

Surely that can't be too difficult, as the announcements invariably say "this is coach 4 of 7"

I know this has sort of already been said, but to add a little extra detail, coach number announcements on Southeastern occur only:

• on 375s
• on dividing trains
• when approaching a station with a short platform

On Southern they occur along with every "the next station is" announcement.

When I went to Brighton in November, the 171 I was on kept warning of short platforms and reminding passengers to alight from the front two or three coaches only, when the whole train was only two coaches long!

 

[Juniper Driver]

Sometimes the PIS screen is wrong and the passengers dont always know the length of the train,IE during weekends you have a four car and they are standing at the 8 car mark,or you have an 8 car and the aren't standing anymore advanced of the four car board.I did have a 458 which showed me up as a 4 car once when It was actually an 8 car although a TMS reboot fixed this.

 

[NSEFAN]

I've recently been on a 465 where the PIS had got out of sync with which station we were at. I'm suprised it happened; I thought they were based on GPS. The driver eventually turned it off to avoid confusion.

 

[ng1980]

Just like you have in a truck, You dial in the hight of your trailer, but even this is not foolproof as I know of more than one driver that picket up the same trailer for the same job for a number of years and took the same route but one day he had a higher trailer and forgot about a bridge until it was to late.

There was once a Royal Mail driver in Bristol who was given a lift to where the new vehicles were to be collected from to take it to the then main sorting office, Cattle Market Road. Getting to Cattle Market Road from one side, involves going under a bridge on which is built part of Bristol Temple Meads station (and from the tunnel a disused door leading to the subway of the said station).

The driver, having picked up the new vehicle, looked at the height stuck inside the drivers cab and checked the maximum height allowed under the bridge, noting that the vehicle was able to get under the bridge. As he drove under - crash!

It later transpired that the height stuck by the manufacturers in the cab was incorrect, and in fact the vehicle was higher. Oops!

 

[150222]

I've recently been on a 465 where the PIS had got out of sync with which station we were at. I'm suprised it happened; I thought they were based on GPS. The driver eventually turned it off to avoid confusion.

That happens quite a bit with the 333's up here.

 

[ng1980]

I've recently been on a 465 where the PIS had got out of sync with which station we were at. I'm suprised it happened; I thought they were based on GPS. The driver eventually turned it off to avoid confusion.

I was once on a Northern Line London Underground train northbound from Charing Cross or London Bridge. Before arriving at the next station, it announced the station one stop south of where I boarded (ie, two stops south of the station we were arriving at). However, when the doors opened, it announced "This is ..." correctly.

The PIS announced the station two stops south of where we arriving on our northbound train at every station, but announced the correct station upon arrival.

Evidently, some setting must have been set to southbound, but the current location got updated every time the train stopped at a station.

The driver did not turn it off while I was on the train!

 

[craigwilson]

I've recently been on a 465 where the PIS had got out of sync with which station we were at. I'm suprised it happened; I thought they were based on GPS. The driver eventually turned it off to avoid confusion.

So did I. The 0614 Ramsgate-Cannon Street, whilst sat at Ramsgate waiting to depart, always used to announce the next stop as Folkestone West (6 stops on from the actual next stop, Sandwich). They used to just turn it off and the guard announced it instead!

 

[BestWestern]

There was a mildly amusing incident a few years back, whereby a service heading down to Portsmouth Harbour from Bristol had been strengthened at some point by the addition of a Class 153 on the rear. These units are not permitted beyond Southampton Central on this line of route due to clearance issues, but unfortunately on this occasion neither Control nor the crew appeared to realise and the 'burger van' got as far as Fratton, where a slightly bemused relieving crew noticed it hiding it at the back! There was no excuse on the Guard's part really, particularly as he was presumably sat in the thing most of the way, but it just goes to show how easily a Driver can forget what he's got behind him.

 

[blakey1152]

Well I finally got a response back from SET.

Basically it says they investigate all safety complaints of this type and they've very kindly given me £30 of rail vouchers for the inconvienence...however in true SET form just like the platform was missing so are the rail vouchers

So I had to call them up and they said they'd send them out and ermm whooops.....

 

[34D]

NXEA EMUs have a slider on the cab desk for 4, 8 and 12 car trains.

However, they are only any good if they have been set up correctly. For example, if a train has been worked down to Chingford as a 4 car and then another unit attachs before going back up to Liv St there's a very good chance it will still show 4 in the country end cab.

If you hook on at chingford, the guy who works this up will obviously set the london end slider to 8 - but who's responsibility is it to check the country end one? Presumably its in their procedures manual? Arguably after coupling and pull-away test, the guy who takes the 8 car set south should be going to check the tail lights and brake release in the rearmost cab - likewise the relieving driver at liv st should check the london end cab before proceeding to go north?

There was a mildly amusing incident a few years back, whereby a service heading down to Portsmouth Harbour from Bristol had been strengthened at some point by the addition of a Class 153 on the rear. These units are not permitted beyond Southampton Central on this line of route due to clearance issues, but unfortunately on this occasion neither Control nor the crew appeared to realise and the 'burger van' got as far as Fratton, where a slightly bemused relieving crew noticed it hiding it at the back! There was no excuse on the Guard's part really, particularly as he was presumably sat in the thing most of the way, but it just goes to show how easily a Driver can forget what he's got behind him.

In a similar vein, a class 90 got dragged halfway across the north wales coast a few years back - pos as far as Bangor.

Why aren't 153/155 permitted beyond Southampton then? Surely they and the 158s are all C3 profile? Did 155s work to Portsmouth when new?

 

[scotsman]

Why aren't 153/155 permitted beyond Southampton then? Surely they and the 158s are all C3 profile? Did 155s work to Portsmouth when new?

Axle loads? Fouling 3rd rail?

 

[DavidBusDriver]

If I remember rightly, was something to do with step boards by the doors fouling the platform edges.

 

[12CSVT]

A few years ago at the TOC I work for, a driver of an 8 car train stopped at a 4 car marker in error and released the doors. He was immediately taken off the job, the train taken out of service, and a driver manager was summoned to work the ECS to depot.

Now, the number of coaches is displayed in the cab, and whenever there is change of driver en route, the driver working the train inbound is required to inform the relief driver how many coaches are on the train

 

[hairyhandedfool]

When I worked for Thameslink some 6 years ago now, they gave all drivers a piece of laminated paper with "4" on one side and "8" on the other. It was A5 size and nicely covered one set of door open buttons meaning it was much harder to open them on the wrong side. Some drivers put them in the drivers side front window which was useful for passengers because if you saw an "8" you knew it was a 4 car train and if you saw a "4" you knew it was an 8 car train.

 

[hozza94]

Bit of paper and some blu-tack would do

And a black board marker?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

A few years ago at the TOC I work for, a driver of an 8 car train stopped at a 4 car marker in error and released the doors. He was immediately taken off the job, the train taken out of service, and a driver manager was summoned to work the ECS to depot.

I can understand the driver being taken off, but why take the train out of service as well? Was there simply no relief driver available?

 

[A-driver]

I've recently been on a 465 where the PIS had got out of sync with which station we were at. I'm suprised it happened; I thought they were based on GPS. The driver eventually turned it off to avoid confusion.

The PIS on 465s and a few other older systems uses wheel rotations to get its location. Newer systems like that found on 377s, 455 and 456 use GPS. FCC 365s use wheel rotations to which is why they announce stevanage so early if you are diverted round Hertford way-it's 2 miles longer so mucks up the wheel rotation count.

As for stopping short drivers have their own ways to deal with it but no system is full proof and it does happen an awful lot. I know on my TOC the vast majority of driver SOL incidents are stop shorts. It only takes a seconds lapse in concentration and you have done it. Of course you realise the second you put the release up-I speak from experience here...

 

[12CSVT]

I can understand the driver being taken off, but why take the train out of service as well? Was there simply no relief driver available?

The TOC involved barely employs enough drivers to cover its timetabled services, let alone have relief drivers.

 

[jopsuk]

The PIS on 465s and a few other older systems uses wheel rotations to get its location. Newer systems like that found on 377s, 455 and 456 use GPS. FCC 365s use wheel rotations to which is why they announce stevanage so early if you are diverted round Hertford way-it's 2 miles longer so mucks up the wheel rotation count.

Often wondered how the older systems worked. Cheers for the explanation.

 

[MCR247]

The PIS on 465s and a few other older systems uses wheel rotations to get its location. Newer systems like that found on 377s, 455 and 456 use GPS. FCC 365s use wheel rotations to which is why they announce stevanage so early if you are diverted round Hertford way-it's 2 miles longer so mucks up the wheel rotation count.

How does that work? Surely the amount of wheel rotations will vary?

 

[A-driver]

Wheel rotations never really vary. The wheels rotate the same number of times weather you are bombing around at line speed or crawling about stopping at signals. Suppose it can vary slightly if you encounter wheel slip but it's not gonna be that far out. I would imagen it's also fairly simple for the WSP brain box to tell the PIS that it's encountered slips and do it can compensate.

 

[Morris Dancer]

Hello, first time poster here.
Reading this thread has reminded me of an incident as I was travelling to Lincoln from Watford Junction on a footex in the early Eighties. We had a train of 11 Mk1s, but as it was a midweek game there wasn't that many going, so the football club stewards running the train kept everybody in the first half of the train. Some time into the journey I decided to go for a walk down the length of the train. To say I was surprised on sliding open one of the big wooden doors to go into the next coach and all I saw was railway track would be a complete understatement!
Anyway I beat a hasty retreat and casually mentioned it to the guard who was just as shocked as me. On the locking of the door no more was said and that was that.