UK switching to electric vehicles discussion

[marshlinker]

You’re quite correct I meant miles per kWh! I’ve also realised the figures I gave were meaningless without context.

So as I said I can get 5.5-6 miles per kWh in slow driving which would be typical of urban commuting but my average life figures across almost 60000 miles is 4.2 miles per kWh. Most of my journeys are higher speed rural, with a fairly high amount of motorway/70mph dual carriageway where it’ll typically be 3.3-4.0 depending on weather conditions and traffic. Not very much urban commuting but some trips to/through the local larger towns and cites. 4.2 miles per kWh is almost bang on the WLTP range of the car and I would expect most cars to exceed their WLTP range by around 15-25% if they were used purely for urban and low speed commuting. So suddenly a car with a quoted WLTP range of 160 miles has an actual commuting range of 180-200 miles.

It won't have in winter!

 

[thejuggler]

There are now quite a few videos about the new Smart #2 (pronounced "hashtag two" it seems, whereas the petrol Smart that most people know was called the "Fortwo"), for example this one from What Car:

The range is not officially confirmed but they have a "target" of 180 miles. The video says charging is capped at 65 kWh and will take 20 minutes to charge from 10-80% at that speed. So 20 minutes charge to go 127 miles. Is that good? The video says this is good compared to the Honda Super N and Renault Twingo.

We had two original smarts. they had tiny 22 litre fuel tanks, but good for 200-250 miles (50-60mpg). 'Recharging' took a few minutes at a petrol station. No need for an EV with those figures.

 

[Bald Rick]

We had two original smarts. they had tiny 22 litre fuel tanks, but good for 200-250 miles (50-60mpg). 'Recharging' took a few minutes at a petrol station. No need for an EV with those figures.

250 miles of petrol at 60mpg - £33
250 miles of electricity at 5m/kWh* - £13.15, and recharge while you are doing something else, eg sleeping.

* at standard price cap rate of 26.3p / kWh. My guess is that a Smart #2 will do rather better than 5m/kWh.

 

[The Ham]

It’s worth noting that in an urban commuting context achievable mileage will often exceed the WLTP range figure as the typical speeds are rarely in excess of 40 mph (and are often much lower). I regularly see 5.5-6kwh per mile on these types of journeys in a larger car so these lighter A segment cars should achieve even higher figures.

Indeed, the point i was making was around a winter long distance journey, and that for that sort of car that would be unusual and so would be ideal for a lot of people.

Especially given that it's not uncommon for people to stick to about 15 journeys of over 50 miles a year.

 

[jon0844]

250 miles of petrol at 60mpg - £33
250 miles of electricity at 5m/kWh* - £13.15, and recharge while you are doing something else, eg sleeping.

* at standard price cap rate of 26.3p / kWh. My guess is that a Smart #2 will do rather better than 5m/kWh.

My rate is currently 6.6p per kWh for car charging. Max 6 hours at that rate using smart charger, which would be overkill for the battery in the Smart. I could charge from 0% each night and still be finished before the time limit was reached.

 

[Noddy]

It won't have in winter!

And conversely in UK summer conditions the range will be even higher. The UK has an increasingly mild climate and urban areas are typically even warmer. The cost of using a small EV for urban commuting in the UK would be tiny if home charging, and even if you are public charging would be cheaper than any comparable petrol or diesel because you will be significantly exceeding the quoted range/miles per kWh. You cannot do that with an ICE in an urban context.

 

[marshlinker]

My rate is currently 6.6p per kWh for car charging. Max 6 hours at that rate using smart charger, which would be overkill for the battery in the Smart. I could charge from 0% each night and still be finished before the time limit was reached.

How much premium are you paying on your day rate to get your 6.6p?

 

[The Ham]

How much premium are you paying on your day rate to get your 6.6p?

I would suggest it depends on if that's on a fixed tariff.

I pay 3.8p per kWh off peak, day rate is 27.8p whilst the current price cap is 26.32p.

I used abot 366kWh off peak of which 68kWh was home and 121kWh peak of which 113kWh was home.

As such (ignoring my EV use) my average kWh rate as around 19p, whilst all useage was around 11p per kWh.

My standing rate is also about 10p a day less than the current price cap rate.

That was fixed in the days before the US started striking Iran (just through dumb luck, I'm not in the great and glorious leaders inner circle - so had no pre warning of what was due to come).

 

[jon0844]

How much premium are you paying on your day rate to get your 6.6p?

36.18p (standing charge 51.67p per day) - and this is fixed until 29 September 2027.

But I have a home battery, so run off the off-peak rate all day.

And with the way Octopus works, if I plug the car in every day and it decides to use cheap electricity in the daytime, it takes the electricity from the grid then and charges the 6.6p rate (as well as making all household usage the same 6.6p rate - which I don't benefit from because I'm running off the battery).

 

[Harpers Tate]

How much premium are you paying on your day rate to get your 6.6p?

A better question might be:
What is your net/average rate using a split tariff vs a flat one?

For example, in the last full month before I got my own Solar/Battery, my effective rate for electricity was under 15p/unit over 24 hours x 1 month, compared to the flat rate at the time of around 23p. Bear in mind: not all domestic use occurs in the daytime, and for some, it's also feasible to shift some day consumption into the off-peak period; we used to run our dishwasher, washing machine and dryer overnight whenever we could.

 

[jon0844]

If you get a decent size battery (and batteries are way cheaper now with Fogstar being one brand that's very good value) then you can charge from the off peak rate to go all day when without solar panels.

Obviously if you can get solar then all the better and the tariff does require having an EV and smart charging it at least once per month.

 

[dcbwhaley]

And conversely in UK summer conditions the range will be even higher. The UK has an increasingly mild climate and urban areas are typically even warmer.

Which requires A/C another drain on the battery

 

[marshlinker]

36.18p (standing charge 51.67p per day) - and this is fixed until 29 September 2027.

But I have a home battery, so run off the off-peak rate all day.

And with the way Octopus works, if I plug the car in every day and it decides to use cheap electricity in the daytime, it takes the electricity from the grid then and charges the 6.6p rate (as well as making all household usage the same 6.6p rate - which I don't benefit from because I'm running off the battery).

Whilst I acknowledge that (and i manage 76 Kwp of Solar plus a little battery storage over 3 sites for my heritage railway) Its not really a representative running cost of an EV in my opinion.

 

[Bald Rick]

Whilst I acknowledge that (and i manage 76 Kwp of Solar plus a little battery storage over 3 sites for my heritage railway) Its not really a representative running cost of an EV in my opinion.

Which is why I sued the standard capped rate. As every electricity consumer has access to that, acceptign that not every car driver will find it easy to put electricity at that rate into their car.

 

[Noddy]

Which requires A/C another drain on the battery

Only if there is a big difference in outside temperature versus required inside temperature. Which, heatwaves excluded, most of the time there isn’t as, as I said previously, we live in a country with a mild (not super hot or super cold) climate.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Which requires A/C another drain on the battery

.....whereas using a/c in a conventional vehicle makes no difference. Except that it does - quite dramatically. (The same is not true of heating; that does indeed have no material effect on consumption in an ICE).

 

[birchesgreen]

Yes i have AC in my ICE car but seldom use it as its too annoying.

 

[AM9]

And conversely in UK summer conditions the range will be even higher. The UK has an increasingly mild climate and urban areas are typically even warmer. The cost of using a small EV for urban commuting in the UK would be tiny if home charging, and even if you are public charging would be cheaper than any comparable petrol or diesel because you will be significantly exceeding the quoted range/miles per kWh. You cannot do that with an ICE in an urban context.

The UK is rapidly approaching a Mediterranean climate, - yesterday there was a meteorologist saying that we will have 'Warm Wet Winters, Hot Dry Summers' which I firmly remember from my Geography O levels. Sounds good but of course, the wet bit can be seriously so, just look at the regular flood in the Med coast areas in France and Spain.

 

[Snow1964]

Yes i have AC in my ICE car but seldom use it as its too annoying.

I just leave it on all year, demists in winter.

I will manually boost fan speed or put on screen, but never touch the a/c button. Although my most recent 3 cars (including current EV) have dual zone climate control so can just leave it in auto mode.

And if left ticking over, never needs sanitiser, or a/c service (lucrative for dealers) and doesn't ever seem to leak as seals don't dry out. Had cars upto 9 years old and never needed regassing either. I figure a few pence on fuel each day is better than a £100-150 regas bill

 

[trebor79]

Which requires A/C another drain on the battery

Only if there is a big difference in outside temperature versus required inside temperature. Which, heatwaves excluded, most of the time there isn’t as, as I said previously, we live in a country with a mild (not super hot or super cold) climate.

It's negligible after the initial cool down. I say in my Tesla on a conference call in blazing sun over 30C outside for 90 minutes and used less than 2% of the battery.