UK switching to electric vehicles discussion

[telstarbox]

Well it's EV Eve for me as, partly encouraged by you lot, I've taken the plunge on a used ID3 which I'm picking up tomorrow. Excited for the brave new world!

 

[Lloyds siding]

This is for a KIA EV3

Amazon.co.uk

www.amazon.co.uk

It would be great if they made that the charging port...that would confuse people!

 

[RuddA]

Well it's EV Eve for me as, partly encouraged by you lot, I've taken the plunge on a used ID3 which I'm picking up tomorrow. Excited for the brave new world!

Hope you enjoy. I'd never want to go back to ICE, hopefully you'll feel the same.

 

[trebor79]

I remember doing a back on an envelope calculation a few years ago....

Basically I took the amount of Diesel/Petrol that was sold each year and worked out the total energy contained.
Multiplied this figure by about 0.35 to get amount that's used to convert to useful kinetic energy. (but waste heat here is very useful in the winter for vehicles)
If you assume EV will replace all that petrol and diesel the UK electricity grid installed capacity would need to rise from 70GW to about 200GW, this also assumes that each vehicle is charged adaptively (i.e. to smooth out charging peaks)

I am still not sure where the extra 130GW of installed capacity is coming from?

When you do the same calculation with the Domestic Gas Supply and if this heat has to be derived from Electricity Supply, assuming its not just generated from Gas! The figures for the UK Grid head north of 500GW, which IMO is totally unrealistic.

As other have said, the numbers you've arrived at are fantastical because you've gone wrong somewhere on the back of your envelope.

National Grids assessment on capacity needed for EVs: Busting the myths and misconceptions about electric vehicles

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Sep 2025 ==

So if you say a newish petrol car is averaging 45mpg, and you take National Grids figure of each gallon of petrol uses 4.5kWh to produce, then an existing petrol car is already sitting at 10 miles per KWh. A modern EV is typically 3 miles per KWh, however some can achieve 4 miles per KWh.

No, this is all wrong. Petrol and diesel is about 10kWh/l. A small efficient car might do 10 about 10 miles per litre, so the ICE manages about 1 mile per kWh.

I'm not sure what "gallon of petrol uses 4.5kWh to produce" is even referring to?

Bottom line is EVs require about 4 to 5 times less energy input than the equivalent ICE.

Well it's EV Eve for me as, partly encouraged by you lot, I've taken the plunge on a used ID3 which I'm picking up tomorrow. Excited for the brave new world!

You won't regret it! There's no way of ever go back to anything with an engine.

 

[N1]

I'm not sure what "gallon of petrol uses 4.5kWh to produce" is even referring to?

This is referring to amount of electricity used to refine crude oil to petrol, before it even touches the car.

Petrol and diesel is about 10kWh/l

Yes the calorific values for petrol and diesel in kWh are in my later post.

 

[trebor79]

This is referring to amount of electricity used to refine crude oil to petrol, before it even touches the car.

Yes the calorific values for petrol and diesel in kWh are in my later post.

Ok, well it was a confusing post and all we can really conclude is that your calculations contain either conceptual or arithmetic errors. The electricity used to refine petrol and diesel is not part of the calculation for the aggregate electrical demand of a fleet of EVs, for example.
Google tells me 47bn litres of petrol and diesel are sold in the UK. That's approx 470TWh of energy. As a rule of thumb EVs require one quarter the energy input of ICE. So that's 118TWh, or an average of less than 15GW.
That's well within the headroom of the grid - electricity demand has dropped by around 20GW since the late 90s peak. Of course it won't be an even 15GW, the vast majority of charging will happen at night due to vehicle use patterns and economic incentives from energy suppliers, just like today, which means most of this additional demand will be at night, when there is less load on the grid anyway.

 

[N1]

Ok, well it was a confusing post and all we can really conclude is that your calculations contain either conceptual or arithmetic errors. The electricity used to refine petrol and diesel is not part of the calculation for the aggregate electrical demand of a fleet of EVs, for example.
Google tells me 47bn litres of petrol and diesel are sold in the UK. That's approx 470TWh of energy. As a rule of thumb EVs require one quarter the energy input of ICE. So that's 118TWh, or an average of less than 15GW.
That's well within the headroom of the grid - electricity demand has dropped by around 20GW since the late 90s peak. Of course it won't be an even 15GW, the vast majority of charging will happen at night due to vehicle use patterns and economic incentives from energy suppliers, just like today, which means most of this additional demand will be at night, when there is less load on the grid anyway.

The calculations I did in post #5544 match yours so I think we are in agreement. Electricity used in refining is not part of the demand of an EV fleet, but does effect overall demand on whole grid.

 

[AM9]

Electricity used in refining is not part of the demand of an EV fleet, but does effect overall demand on whole grid.

Refining fuel for road vehicles only counts when there are IC vehicles to burn the fuel. In an EV context, it doesn't at all.

 

[E27007]

Are there any? It needs someone with access to the actual documents to be definitive, but as mentioned before salary sacrifice usually involves a notional salary before the sacrifice which things like pensions are calculated on.

I do hope those drivers opting for a salary sacrifice scheme have been advised of the long-term effects upon their pension.

The small print of the salary sacrifice scheme has to be studied, the reduction in salary may force a reduction in the employers yearly contribution into the employees pension pot, impacting the final value of the pot at retirement and lower income in retirement.
I believe schemes may vary in the treatment of the pension contribution arrangements,

 

[ExRes]

I was listening to a discussion yesterday about the fitting of kerbside chargers in Brighton & Hove, it was said that over 6000 of these are being introduced, the major thing that strikes me is how exactly they intend to go about providing 6000+ 'parking spaces' for cars to use them and what those 6000+ spaces are going to do to the 6000+ vehicles that would normally park there, presumably those who have made the decision have considered the downsides and will be happy to see hundreds of empty 'charging only' spaces sitting there unused every day while parking chaos increases everywhere else in the City

 

[Harpers Tate]

I was listening to a discussion yesterday about the fitting of kerbside chargers in Brighton & Hove, it was said that over 6000 of these are being introduced, the major thing that strikes me is how exactly they intend to go about providing 6000+ 'parking spaces' for cars to use them and what those 6000+ spaces are going to do to the 6000+ vehicles that would normally park there, presumably those who have made the decision have considered the downsides and will be happy to see hundreds of empty 'charging only' spaces sitting there unused every day while parking chaos increases everywhere else in the City

Not that I have any statistics to support this - but isn't it reasonable to suppose that the number of non-EVs is falling at whatever rate alongside the increase in EVs?

 

[jon0844]

I was listening to a discussion yesterday about the fitting of kerbside chargers in Brighton & Hove, it was said that over 6000 of these are being introduced, the major thing that strikes me is how exactly they intend to go about providing 6000+ 'parking spaces' for cars to use them and what those 6000+ spaces are going to do to the 6000+ vehicles that would normally park there, presumably those who have made the decision have considered the downsides and will be happy to see hundreds of empty 'charging only' spaces sitting there unused every day while parking chaos increases everywhere else in the City

The street light chargers I've already seen in Brighton aren't implicitly marked for EV owners only, but as more and more people get EVs and more charging points are put in, I suppose there won't be such an issue.

The important thing is probably to ensure there is enough parking so people can find a space. If all roads are packed with cars every day and night, it's going to be a problem (but finding a parking space full stop is going to be a problem, not just finding an EV charging point).

I expect many roads are very busy at night when people come home and near empty in the day, if there are parking restrictions for non permit holders for example. As such, people will likely have no issues charging if they can at least leave their car at home for some of the day. Many people may only need to charge once a week or fortnight.

Bar the hilly bits, Brighton is a decent walkable city with good public transport so I doubt people have such an issue with parking a bit further away.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Sep 2025 ==

Not that I have any statistics to support this - but isn't it reasonable to suppose that the number of non-EVs is falling at whatever rate alongise the increase in EVs?

In August, the motor industry data showed an approx 14% drop in petrol registrations, and about the same percentage increase for EVs.

Diesel was also way down, but hybrids have seen continued growth (I get that many people feel they'll need the backup of ICE but after purchasing probably realise they didn't - so maybe in 3-4 years time those getting another new car will, IMO, then go for a battery only car - especially if the range is now closer to 300-400 miles as standard even on a small car through new battery technologies).

The new plates are from September 1st, so I am surprised anyone got a new car registered in August so the September figures should prove interesting.

Purely anecdotally, I've seen a few 75 plate cars and I think they've all been EVs. However, I am not ready to claim that 100% of new car registrations were BEVs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The street light chargers I've already seen in Brighton aren't implicitly marked for EV owners only, but as more and more people get EVs and more charging points are put in, I suppose there won't be such an issue.

The important thing is probably to ensure there is enough parking so people can find a space. If all roads are packed with cars every day and night, it's going to be a problem (but finding a parking space full stop is going to be a problem, not just finding an EV charging point).

I expect many roads are very busy at night when people come home and near empty in the day, if there are parking restrictions for non permit holders for example. As such, people will likely have no issues charging if they can at least leave their car at home for some of the day. Many people may only need to charge once a week or fortnight.

Bar the hilly bits, Brighton is a decent walkable city with good public transport so I doubt people have such an issue with parking a bit further away.

This is all standard for terraced streets. Typically the frontages are narrower than the length of an average family car, so not everyone can park even if they only had one car per household. The key however is that it is possible to charge in enough places. I have an issue with the cable trough idea, because that furthers "parking wars" based on people feeling they need to be outside their own house.

Not everyone of course will need to plug in daily, but there does need to be the possibility of doing so from each space, and probably also a pricing structure that discourages plugging in every night and thus "hogging" chargers when you don't really need to charge every day.

 

[jon0844]

Cables from your house over (or under/in) the pavement seems like a terrible idea except in places like, perhaps, communal car parks where people have a designated spot.

Far better to be able to use your own cable to plug in to a lamp post or other charger at the roadside, and the Government/Ofgem to work out a way to offer cheaper charging for residents - sort of like being able to charge at your home rate. Perhaps having smart tariffs like Intelligent Octopus Go might not be possible, but even just paying the residential capped rate would be a marked improvement.

 

[telstarbox]

Yes definitely. Or the council could sell you a monthly package of kWh to use across any chargers in their patch. In our terraced area you often have to park in the next road over so spaces can't be personal.



== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Sep 2025 ==

Hope you enjoy. I'd never want to go back to ICE, hopefully you'll feel the same.

Bad news - they couldn't sort the V5 so it's currently resting in the dealership.
Good news - I have a courtesy GTX while they sort it out!

 

[E27007]

Well it's EV Eve for me as, partly encouraged by you lot, I've taken the plunge on a used ID3 which I'm picking up tomorrow. Excited for the brave new world!

The VW iD3 and BYD Dolphin are the key face-to-face competitors in their ZEV segment of the car market, if you considered the BYD, were there reasons for favouring the VW as your choice?

 

[thejuggler]

Well it's EV Eve for me as, partly encouraged by you lot, I've taken the plunge on a used ID3 which I'm picking up tomorrow. Excited for the brave new world!

I hope you get on with LHD wipers on a RHD vehicle. Only a small issue in the grand scheme of things, but I've been there on a different vehicle and it drove me mad. The windscreen was never clear of water as the sweep threw excess over the drivers side of the windscreen.

 

[Sun Chariot]

I chatted with a wonderful genial gentlemen this morning at my local farm shop; the proud owner of the attached (t's an Aston Martin Vanquish 2025 model). He is very much in the ICE camp - and, as he's in the autumn years of his life, I say good luck to him.

 

[telstarbox]

The VW iD3 and BYD Dolphin are the key face-to-face competitors in their ZEV segment of the car market, if you considered the BYD, were there reasons for favouring the VW as your choice?

There is actually a new BYD dealership within walking distance of my house and I popped in for a look. They only have new or preregistered ones at the moment. I opted for an approved used ID3 as I thought it would have ironed out any teething troubles at this point, and the build quality and environment seem slightly better. I can see the BYD ones selling well though.

 

[gabrielhj07]

I chatted with a wonderful genial gentlemen this morning at my local farm shop; the proud owner of the attached (t's an Aston Martin Vanquish 2025 model). He is very much in the ICE camp - and, as he's in the autumn years of his life, I say good luck to him.

Very nice indeed.

 

[E27007]

I chatted with a wonderful genial gentlemen this morning at my local farm shop; the proud owner of the attached (t's an Aston Martin Vanquish 2025 model). He is very much in the ICE camp - and, as he's in the autumn years of his life, I say good luck to him.

I'm puzzled when people "in their twilight" acquire such vehicles, an acquaintance, beyond three-score years and ten, "I want a Supercar", high on the list a Ferrari, at the dealership, his bubble burst, having wriggled into the drivers seat, he could not wriggle out again, the salesmen had to provide physical assistance, he did buy a high-performance car, but not a Ferrari, and a car he could enter and exit with a degree of grace.
Retired and in my twilight years, though still fit and agile, I am the opposite of "Mr Supercar" I strongly favour utility over image.
A Mercedes or Dacia? Dacia yes please!
Such are my limited aspirations, I may one day buy one of those ZEV thingies

 

[Sun Chariot]

How I laughed at your anecdote @E27007 I am 6' 6" and, although not as rugby-fit as I was thirty years ago, I still have "fun" fitting my shoulders and legs into many vehicles.

The Vanquish gent I chatted with, said he'd owned a string of Aston Martin models for much of his adult life; and admitted he was wedded to the cabin's opulence and driving feedback. He'd just returned from taking it to and from Cannes.

Having driven a DB9 nearly 20 years ago, I know his rationale. I suspect his lifelong budget has been far higher than mine!

 

[75A]

I'm just about to come into this category, although I'm in my 8th year of retirement I'm only just coming up to receive the £900 ish in State Pension. I know that HMRC will want their share but what to do with the rest?

I had a 911 in my 40's and being another 6 foot 6 ex rugby player found it a nightmare, not only getting in and out but using 5th gear, mind you my Wife's Sportage is just as bad to exit..

Not keen on Astons, I drove a DB7 and found it no different to my Mondeo (same chassis), if fact it was worse as it had no roof guttering and when you opened the window you got wet from the water coming off the roof.
The Vantage I had for 3 days @ Silverstone had a wet passenger side floor (air con apparently)

So top of my list at the moment (I've still got 2 months) is either a Bentley or BMW.
BMW's are 2 a penny round here, so that puts me off, so a Continental GT is looking a possibility.

 

[E27007]

So top of my list at the moment (I've still got 2 months) is either a Bentley or BMW.
BMW's are 2 a penny round here, so that puts me off, so a Continental GT is looking a possibility.

Since the forum is about the feasibilty of ZEVs, have you considered the feasibilty of spending your pension upon a high-performance ZEV such as the BYD Seal dual-motor AWD? The dual-motor Seal has a power delivery equivalent to north of 500bhp, check the youtube videos for drag-race sprint acceleration , BYD Seal vs Supercars, where the Seal eats exotic cars for breakfast

 

[Sun Chariot]

I had a 911 in my 40's and being another 6 foot 6 ex rugby player found it a nightmare, not only getting in and out but using 5th gear, mind you my Wife's Sportage is just as bad to exit..

My wife's car is a manual and with cable hand-brake. When I am in the front passenger seat and her driving, she spends a lot of time telling me to move myself...!

 

[75A]

Since the forum is about the feasibilty of ZEVs, have you considered the feasibilty of spending your pension upon a high-performance ZEV such as the BYD Seal dual-motor AWD? The dual-motor Seal has a power delivery equivalent to north of 500bhp, check the youtube videos for drag-race sprint acceleration , BYD Seal vs Supercars, where the Seal eats exotic cars for breakfast

No I hadn't but i'm going to spend the afternoon investigating (with the cricket on in the background).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Sep 2025 ==

I started reading reviews and quickly came across this one in Auto Trader:

Auto Trader Review - BYD Seal Review & Prices 2025 | Autotrader UK

Two versions of the BYD Seal will be available from launch, both using an 82kWh battery. The Seal Design is a rear-wheel drive car with a 312 horsepower. It can accelerate from rest to 62mph in a respectable 5.9 seconds. For those seeking greater performance, the Seal Excellence features a second electric motor and all-wheel drive, bringing the total power output to 530 horsepower, slicing the zero to 62mph time to an impressive 3.8 seconds.
Both cars have the same 111 mph top speed.

£48,695 for a new car with a top speed of 111mph, as Mr McEnroe would say: 'You cannot be serious man', i've got a 15 year old diesel Mondeo sitting on the drive that can do more than that.

Yes I know the national speed limit is 70mph and on the country lanes round here doing 50 mph is very optimistic but there are things called Track Days.

 

[MicroLithium]

The Hyundai Ioniq 5N might be a better option for the enthusiast, but all electric performance cars are focused more on acceleration than top speed

 

[75A]

The Hyundai Ioniq 5N might be a better option for the enthusiast, but all electric performance cars are focused more on acceleration than top speed

You're quite right, I hadn't initially realised that.

 

[jon0844]

There doesn't seem to be much of a market right now, but the limits are often just done in software to maintain efficiency (and not skew WLTP range etc). Some car makers unlock more motor power for a fee, and I'm sure in time we'll see more cars with higher limits, or the ability to increase the top speed with the usual warnings (for those wanting to go on a track, or the German autobahns).

When petrolheads eventually migrate, I am sure they'll be doing all sorts of conversions. It must be much easier to increase power on an electric car than ICE.

 

[MicroLithium]

There doesn't seem to be much of a market right now, but the limits are often just done in software to maintain efficiency (and not skew WLTP range etc). Some car makers unlock more motor power for a fee, and I'm sure in time we'll see more cars with higher limits, or the ability to increase the top speed with the usual warnings (for those wanting to go on a track, or the German autobahns).

When petrolheads eventually migrate, I am sure they'll be doing all sorts of conversions. It must be much easier to increase power on an electric car than ICE.

I suspect there is a bit of a harder ceiling imposed by the fixed reduction gear between the motor and the wheels. The gear ratio must be a compromise between acceleration off the line and ultimate top speed. But the torque curve is such that these cars get to up to speed much faster than the top speed stat would suggest.