pokemonsuper9
Established Member
Sounds like we need electric car charges on the Euroshuttle and ferries then.
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UK switching to electric vehicles discussion
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Which neatly sums up the issue. For some, an EV is ideal - off road charging available, mostly short journeys, probably mostly urban. For those who do long journeys (rep-mobiles), or are probably rural, can't afford a more expensive car, maybe does some towing, an ICE is ideal. Do we need a one-size-fits-all?
Overtime, with improvements, the tipping point between ICE and EVs will change.
I have to give it to Moto, I usually dislike them (especially Bridgwater services) but they’ve been really good at getting high power EV chargers rolled out with Gridserve.
Most of Motos seem to have 6+ 350kW bays, with Rugby having a whopping 36 (18 dual bay chargers), though that’s a single site for north and southbound.
Queues are rare, utilisation tends to be good but if there’s a cheaper Tesla up the road it’s noticeably quiet.
WelcomeBreak is ok, some have AppleGreen electric which has plenty of chargers but far from every site, many have some Teslas. Roadchef is disappointing but slowly improving.
It feels like EV charging has finally gotten good. Part of that is reliable chargers (Alpitronic, Kempower and some ABB) having emerged, with operators staying far away from the early unreliable units the likes of GeniePoint has. It’s particularly noticeable with BP between an old Chargemaster site and a more modern Alpitronic site.
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I recall that a car with a long CB-type aerial tried to 'plug' into the OHLE on the Euroshuttle. It didn't end well.
pdq
Member
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- 7 Oct 2010
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Already a thing. Irish Ferries have EV charging on some of their vessels, albeit only 7kWh.
Electric Cars | Irish Ferries | Charging points
We are delighted to offer recharging points for electric vehicles on our Irish Sea and Ireland-France services
www.irishferries.com
Fair point about the mass but every little helps. I've often let the tank run nearly dry without any problem. I can think of four supermarkets and another four filling stations within three miles of my house so it's not as if filling up is going to be a problem.
Indeed so. I have a friend with a Tesla who drove it to southern Italy for the summer family holiday this year.
Plenty of chargers at the eurotunnel terminals, including some 200kW+ that will fully charge most vehicles in less time than it takes to get a coffee at Starbucks in the terminal buildings.
The Electric Trucker's latest upload is a visit to a truck show exhibiting electric trucks and he talks extensively about battery technology and their use in commercial applications, as well the upcoming offerings from Mercedes, DAF, IVECO, etc. He has a large back catalogue of videos using pure electric trucks across Germany.
If you believe what happens in commercial applications filters down towards consumer vehicles, then his channel is worth a look.
If you believe what happens in commercial applications filters down towards consumer vehicles, then his channel is worth a look.
I have often thought that due to the additional fire risk of a ZEV, the additional risk being the battery fire is a chemical reaction which is hard to control and extinguish, house insurance would be affected, especially if the ZEV is kept in an integral garage to the house.
It seems that scenario is happening, the link is to the owner of a Porsche Taycan , those vehicles are subject to a safety recall for the batteries due to cell damage and fires.
The owner of a taycan has had both his car insurance and house insurance cancelled due to the safety issue of the Porsche batteries.
Insurance cancelled due to fire risk of ZEV Porsche Taycan
It seems that scenario is happening, the link is to the owner of a Porsche Taycan , those vehicles are subject to a safety recall for the batteries due to cell damage and fires.
The owner of a taycan has had both his car insurance and house insurance cancelled due to the safety issue of the Porsche batteries.
Insurance cancelled due to fire risk of ZEV Porsche Taycan
Are there any stats to support that statement?
I would much rather have a large battery in the garage than 70 litres of petrol.
I have kept at least 20 litres of petrol in my various garages over nearly sixty years with never a fire.
I also keep 7kG of LPG and lithium ebike batteries in my current garage and I know which is the most likely to cause problems
I'm not a rep but I drive high mileages in connection with my job and there's no way I'd consider anything other than an EV. It's absolutely fine.
No. The stats show the exact opposite, a BEV is about 80 tomes less likely to catch fire than ICE.
Sample size = 1
The owner of that car has made a fortune from the anti-EV YouTube content he has produced. I'm sure he's quite happy, assuming everything he says is 100% true.
I see both his and your points of view, view the link, his £120,000 car has lost £75,000 to £90,000 in 2 years since new, the ownership experience was very poor, his Taycan is afflicted with defects common to the Taycan, battery safety issues, failed heater system, expensive to service. the Taycan is clearly an expensive premium car manufactured to low standards.
In his shoes I would consider issuing proceedings against Porsche for a refund, I knew a Rolls-Royce owner whose unreliable car was refunded in full, the Chairman of RR visited their home to deal with the matter.
Porsche Taycan ZEV extreme depreciation
How a car is powered and child poverty certainly wasn't on my anti EV bingo card.
EVs will be cheaper to maintain and more reliable so if anything will help struggling families who need a car but can barely afford to run one. Sure, maybe not today or tomorrow but certainly once EVs are in the majority - which obviously is going to happen whether you like it or not.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
I still think we should not be buzzing around in lots of small individual vehicles. Public transport anybody ?.
What does that specifically have to do with electric cars? Is there some link that I'm unaware of? Are electric cars in some way worse than e.g. Gucci bags or something?
Not great outside of major cities.
For sure. While I can't see myself unable to go without a car entirely, we only do around 5,000 miles per year and use public transport (or walking, cycling) wherever possible.
I don't think we can get everyone to give up their cars entirely, as not everyone will live in environments where public transport is plentiful (or even taxis) but we seek to get people to use the right tool for the job, and by making public transport or cycling more available and appealing, people won't drive as much.
Indeed, they can then earn money from their cars being used as home batteries when not being driven!
Peter Sarf
Established Member
The only thing I worry about there is that once someone owns a car they are going to be very tempted to use the car for journeys where a car was not necessary.
Worse still if they have invested in an expensive (as in brand new) EV there will be less inclined to use public transport as it does not reduce the depreciation cost part of ownership. At least with an old ICE I do not have to consider the depreciation. Time will tell whether there will be a plentiful supply of almost fully depreciated EVs for the light user (or poor) market.
I haven't been tempted to drive more just because I have the car, but I'm sure some people do. Sunk costs and all that.
We will soon* have many EVs for £1000 or even less, and in due course a lot more than just old Nissan Leafs to choose from.
* Next 2-3 years by my own estimation.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Fingers crossed, sooner than I thought.
It's not the depreciation that I think about but the fuel cost. I can drive to London and back for less than a fiver in my EV. In my old 208 that would have cost me about £40 in fuel and another £10 in the kitty for oil and servicing.
Consequently I hardly ever take the train now. Even an off peak ticket is £60 return, fully flexible £110.
Yes, you'd certainly want to look at the total cost of ownership.. and for an old car, you might be seeking the cost of an extended warranty to cover any nasty surprises.
So an ICE car might be a lot cheaper, but it might be due some costly maintenance work (either normal scheduled stuff, or something more serious and unexpected), require expensive routing servicing, not run quite as efficiently as it once did (just like an EV battery degrading by 10-20% before starting to level off), all of which you need to factor in as well as the cost of fuel.
The EV might cost more, but be a relatively safe bet. Sure, check the tyres and suspension etc, but otherwise if the battery is good then you're likely all set for some years of fuss-free motoring. Servicing will be less, you may not need any extra warranty (but the battery might still be covered anyway) and if you can charge at home then 'fuel' might be 10 times cheaper.
Each individual needs to do the maths to work out what works, but I think a more expensive second-hand EV is almost certainly going to be the safer bet.
Now if you're talking about an old car with no fancy electronics and you've got the skills to do your own work on it then, fine, the ICE car might not be a risk at all - but you still have the cost of fuelling it to consider. Electricity is expected to go down in price this year and next, with more time-of-use tariffs coming, plus hundreds more hours of free or negative priced electricity, but I am not sure there's any suggestion that petrol or diesel is going to come down significantly anytime soon.
So an ICE car might be a lot cheaper, but it might be due some costly maintenance work (either normal scheduled stuff, or something more serious and unexpected), require expensive routing servicing, not run quite as efficiently as it once did (just like an EV battery degrading by 10-20% before starting to level off), all of which you need to factor in as well as the cost of fuel.
The EV might cost more, but be a relatively safe bet. Sure, check the tyres and suspension etc, but otherwise if the battery is good then you're likely all set for some years of fuss-free motoring. Servicing will be less, you may not need any extra warranty (but the battery might still be covered anyway) and if you can charge at home then 'fuel' might be 10 times cheaper.
Each individual needs to do the maths to work out what works, but I think a more expensive second-hand EV is almost certainly going to be the safer bet.
Now if you're talking about an old car with no fancy electronics and you've got the skills to do your own work on it then, fine, the ICE car might not be a risk at all - but you still have the cost of fuelling it to consider. Electricity is expected to go down in price this year and next, with more time-of-use tariffs coming, plus hundreds more hours of free or negative priced electricity, but I am not sure there's any suggestion that petrol or diesel is going to come down significantly anytime soon.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
+
We will have to see how the charging for the use of the UK road network pans out.
Will there be higher charges than now for EVs to use the roads thus encouraging public transport use ?. I suspect there will - the state is hooked on taxes and significantly so.
As it stands a lot more public transport could well be come dead in the water. Whether that is a good thing is a question for another thread.
In my opinion the one single thing that would advance the cause of EV adoption would be the reduction of public charging costs.
I note Germany are introducing a "pass through" model for truck charging costs on their soon to be implemented autobahn infrastructure. This allows businesses to use their 'home' electricity tariff when their vehicles are out and about on the motorways, the so called "pass through" tariff. Naturally, there is an added "facility fee" to cover the costs of site development - although I have no idea what that fee could be.
If adapted to personal use vehicles, this pricing model could be a game changer for me, and the millions of others who can't charge at home and don't want to pay 89p per unit outside.
Could it become a reality in the UK?
www.energate-messenger.com
I note Germany are introducing a "pass through" model for truck charging costs on their soon to be implemented autobahn infrastructure. This allows businesses to use their 'home' electricity tariff when their vehicles are out and about on the motorways, the so called "pass through" tariff. Naturally, there is an added "facility fee" to cover the costs of site development - although I have no idea what that fee could be.
If adapted to personal use vehicles, this pricing model could be a game changer for me, and the millions of others who can't charge at home and don't want to pay 89p per unit outside.
Could it become a reality in the UK?
"Pass-through model ensures price transparency for the first time"
Berlin - With the tender for the e-fast charging network for trucks, the so-called pass-through model is becoming mandatory for the first time. In an interview with energate, Knut Hechtfischer, CEO of the start-up Decarbon1ze, describes how the technology strengthens competition and reduces...
www.energate-messenger.com
Peter Sarf
Established Member
That is a good step forward. For me also the high cost of public charging acts as a disincentive.In my opinion the one single thing that would advance the cause of EV adoption would be the reduction of public charging costs.
I note Germany are introducing a "pass through" model for truck charging costs on their soon to be implemented autobahn infrastructure. This allows businesses to use their 'home' electricity tariff when their vehicles are out and about on the motorways, the so called "pass through" tariff. Naturally, there is an added "facility fee" to cover the costs of site development - although I have no idea what that fee could be.
If adapted to personal use vehicles, this pricing model could be a game changer for me, and the millions of others who can't charge at home and don't want to pay 89p per unit outside.
Could it become a reality in the UK?
"Pass-through model ensures price transparency for the first time"
Berlin - With the tender for the e-fast charging network for trucks, the so-called pass-through model is becoming mandatory for the first time. In an interview with energate, Knut Hechtfischer, CEO of the start-up Decarbon1ze, describes how the technology strengthens competition and reduces...
johncrossley
Established Member
In my opinion the one single thing that would advance the cause of EV adoption would be the reduction of public charging costs.
I note Germany are introducing a "pass through" model for truck charging costs on their soon to be implemented autobahn infrastructure. This allows businesses to use their 'home' electricity tariff when their vehicles are out and about on the motorways, the so called "pass through" tariff. Naturally, there is an added "facility fee" to cover the costs of site development - although I have no idea what that fee could be.
If adapted to personal use vehicles, this pricing model could be a game changer for me, and the millions of others who can't charge at home and don't want to pay 89p per unit outside.
Could it become a reality in the UK?
"Pass-through model ensures price transparency for the first time"
Berlin - With the tender for the e-fast charging network for trucks, the so-called pass-through model is becoming mandatory for the first time. In an interview with energate, Knut Hechtfischer, CEO of the start-up Decarbon1ze, describes how the technology strengthens competition and reduces...
That sounds like the way fuel cards work. In a similar way, fuel card users don't pay the inflated posted rate at motorway services. The analogy for private users is that they do pay the high prices at motorway services, so they use supermarkets and other cheaper petrol stations instead. Supermarkets already offer free or cheaper charging.