UK General Election 2024

[DarloRich]

The fact that your mortgage hasnt got better is nothing to do with Liz Truss.

it ABSOLUTLY does. This shouldn't be a difficult concept to grasp. it is one of the reasons the Tories will hopefully get the showing they deserve. FAFO as the yoofs say.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I'm just a bit surprised Blindtraveller would say he's voted for Reform! I thought Reform would be the worst party to vote for if you disabled, as they very rarely mentioned at all in their contract and they are worse than the tories when it comes to Welfare. 4 months to find a job, seems a bit mad to me, especially if you are disabled and not in the light touch work groups!

I acknowledge that their views nationally on people with disabilities are pretty deployable but the conservatives haven't exactly showered themselves in glory on this issue either. And a Facebook q and A that I was in a couple of weeks back. Didn't give me any sign of new green shoots from the labour camp who I was prepared to give a fair hearing to in all honesty when it comes to this.4 months to find a job without sanction is an impossible target to meet. And they would should. They actually have the power to enforce it. Find that they had to do an extremely speedy U-turn on it as the system would become overwhelmed and would simply break. The reason that so many parties are harsh on this and I'm afraid labour are not perfect. Although in some aspects are better on this subject is that there is still this negative stigma that all people with disabilities don't want to work and would rather sit on benefits. Whilst I am affected by welfare policy and whilst I would love to not see myself as disabled, a lack of useful vision unfortunately puts me well and truly in that category and I'm less than amused about it to say the least.
If I were voting front and centre from the point of view of a disabled person, then the liberal democrats would almost certainly be the winner every time and liberal democrat is generally speaking my safe place home when it comes to who to vote for. But the liberal democrat candidate for my seat is another disgruntled ex-member of the legal profession who may or may not keep doing some work from that point of view and doesn't seem to really have a grasp on what's going on locally in my constituency. And as I've said several times I wanted a new good quality constituency MP and whilst I know this wouldn't sit well with some people but had the previous one been staying on then my vote would have gone in the conservative box. This has been a very hard decision to make and I've made it based as I say what makes most sense to me in my local constituency and the reality is that reform aren't even going to be guaranteed a slot at prime minister's questions every week. So if all I get out of it is a local MP that seems to know what they're doing and is actually local which does matter to me. Then I'm satisfied. The reality is that people who are receiving any kind of support from the system are shunted from Piller to post regardless of what colour the government is. And I've still never forgiven the new labour job centre plus concept for telling me when I left school at 18 that the world of work wasn't interested in me and I should simply apply for benefits and sit on them for the rest of my life. If they said the same thing now, I might take them up on it except that the internet has grown so big that there is now sufficient stigma against anyone with a disability actually claiming support that they are in theory entitled to that I be frightened to do it for the sake of keeping a roof over my head. So to all the critics I say, please put your own house in order before you cast. Too harsh a judgement on how anybody votes based on what the party they're voting for might or might not do to them as a disabled person. We are the lowest common denominator and a piece of **** to all parties no matter which one is in charge in downing Street. So please bear this in mind


For background, I have worked all my adult life and this has often been a challenge with discrimination, a daily problem and many years as self-employed and or freelance, which of course didn't do me any good during the pandemic. I've paid into the system and stuck by the rules and never claimed an out-of-work benefit. Although have claimed dla and pip for all of that time and have also accessed in work benefits from time to time. The reality is that the world of work does not want disabled people and whilst I find that really hard to stomach, we're only going to get somewhere with this issue by educating employers and I encourage supporters of all parties to ask representatives of said parties at a senior level. What plans they have for doing this? As I think you'll find the answer is they don't. The reason being no political party thus far. Invented understands the challenges we're facing and not all of these are as a result of government welfare or related policies, the employment sector needs as big a boot up the ass as any complacent or failing government

 

[Cross City]

Be thankful you didn't have mortgage in the 1970s, as interest rates reached 17%, which again is another anomaly

Of course, back then despite interest rates house prices were still much lower vs the average was compared to now and most could afford to buy a home on a single income which is a complete pipe dream these days.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The fact that your mortgage hasnt got better is nothing to do with Liz Truss. The impact of her budget was short lived, the impact of Russia's invasion of Ukraine has not been.

Given Labour party policies area virtually no different to those of the Tory party and both are deceiving the electorate about the state of public finances and services and the need for either large tax rises or large public sector cuts, how anyone could vote for either of them is beyond me!

Here here

 

[DarloRich]

So to all the critics I say, please put your own house in order before you cast. Too harsh a judgement on how anybody votes based on what the party they're voting for might or might not do to them as a disabled person.

my house is very much in order

I am not criticising anyone for thier choice. Far from it. That is your business. I just want to try to understand it. I honestly cant. Reform have nothing to offer except glib statements with no depth.

 

[Morgsie]

I'm autistic and got mental health issues who is in receipt of benefits both PIP and income related, I am also a member of a party which some on here know full to well. I'm really worried about what some parties including Labour and the Tories are promising as it could affect me and it is bad enough at some point I will move to to Universal Credit. Also if even if I did work I could lose money than what I'm getting now. I've been reading this thread and I felt I had to say something even though it is emotional. I'm also a graduate and there are many graduates who do not meet the various thresholds to pay back student loans which is not frequently talked about.

 

[Cross City]

Here here

Just because you agree with it, doesn't make it true.

 

[X-City-WM]

For interest, I put the current percentages from the vote at the top of this thread into Electoral Calculus. If the vote went that way, the result would be:

LAB: 508
LIB: 102
SNP: 15
GRN: 3
PLC: 3
CON: 1
REF: 0

Full Results

 

[Halwynd]

I remember well a good friend, no longer with us, falling on hard times during the late Blair/Brown period. He had to apply for a benefit called Employment Allowance and was treated abysmally by the system. In the end he consulted with his (Labour) MP - basically, she was not interested.

The 'working man' expects to be shafted by the Conservatives, but you don't expect it from Labour.

I'll be overjoyed when the Conservatives lose tomorrow, but I won't be jumping up and down with excitement when Labour take over.

 

[Blindtraveler]

my house is very much in order

I am not criticising anyone for thier choice. Far from it. That is your business. I just want to try to understand it. I honestly cant. Reform have nothing to offer except glib statements with no depth.

Okay, I'll try and explain it a different way, I thought perhaps my previous explanation had made sense, but as I genuinely do want to help
As a party, the conservatives policy, particularly with regards to welfare and those with disabilities is absolute rubbish, and that's really not putting into words how I actually feel about it. Unfortunately, having been prepared to give them a fair hearing and vote accordingly. There was little being offered to me in the labour plans or promises on the same or similar issues. I am a floating voter and have cast a ballot for most parties over the years with the exception of SNP and green, So whilst I have no time really for the current incarnation of the labour party or its management doesn't mean to say that I wouldn't go out and vote for them in 5 years should they have suddenly started tuning in to my views or should I be at a radically different point in life in 5 years time
Equally were I to move back to Scotland and were the SNP to simply become a roughly dead centre party with a Scottish accent prepared to stand up for Scotland and challenge business at Westminster rather than the divisive racist and incompetent party that they currently are. Then I again might vote for them
My natural voting home is liberal democrat and that would have been fine except the liberal democrat candidate for my constituency which is Chatham and alesford was underwhelming in their publicity and completely unresponsive by email or social media. When I tried to contact them to gauge their views and feelings various things. So as none of the parties standing for election is currently speaking to me on a national level, I decided to whittle it down to who might make the best local MP. Had Tracy crouch been staying around then she would have got my vote. Despite my dislike of the current incarnation of the conservatives. She wasn't. So I simply settled down to research each candidate standing in my seat, including those for the more minor parties to see which one I thought might represent me as a member of the local community. Best and sadly, and I do say sadly because it wasn't an easy decision or a particularly nice one, but reform came out best. I do care quite strongly about what happens with immigration going forward but on this subject I can categorically state honestly and hand on heart that no party have got the balance right where this is concerned. So from that point of view we are no further forward. No party. Have quite got the correct mixture with regards to people with disabilities as well as welfare. So again no forward progress. They have all been less than accurate in my opinion where what they're going to do on taxation and spending is concerned and I'm not really interested or motivated by green issues other than firmly locking my door to anyone who wants to come and rip out my gas boiler and replace it with a heat pump that costs five times as much to run. So that maybe explains it better but happy to explain further

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jul 2024 ==

I'm autistic and got mental health issues who is in receipt of benefits both PIP and income related, I am also a member of a party which some on here know full to well. I'm really worried about what some parties including Labour and the Tories are promising as it could affect me and it is bad enough at some point I will move to to Universal Credit. Also if even if I did work I could lose money than what I'm getting now. I've been reading this thread and I felt I had to say something even though it is emotional. I'm also a graduate and there are many graduates who do not meet the various thresholds to pay back student loans which is not frequently talked about.

None of the main parties have got it right. To be honest. Some have done it better than others but imperfection is the name of the game here sadly
I don't affiliate much with the world of disability at all. Preferring to interact and socialise and indeed work as an outsider in the normal world, but I have grown rather tired of those who are convinced that labour will win and by Christmas we will see a return to the early 2000s of generous benefits and limited scrutiny

 

[AlterEgo]

I was. And the markets and economy have not only recovered, but have got (a little) better from her 7 weeks as PM.

Because she isn’t around any more and none of the policies were implemented, which made the markets rebound somewhat.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I remember well a good friend, no longer with us, falling on hard times during the late Blair/Brown period. He had to apply for a benefit called Employment Allowance and was treated abysmally by the system. In the end he consulted with his (Labour) MP - basically, she was not interested.

The 'working man' expects to be shafted by the Conservatives, but you don't expect it from Labour.

I'll be overjoyed when the Conservatives lose tomorrow, but I won't be jumping up and down with excitement when Labour take over.

I was trying to change jobs at around this time having taken on a new challenge and found I didn't like it and wanted to see what my options were and felt absolutely identical having gone through a near identical process other than actually applying for the benefit having not been eligible due to still being in said job. Like yourself, I won't be sorry to see the back of the current incarnation of the conservative government, but have absolutely zero enthusiasm for its predicted replacement

 

[DarloRich]

So that maybe explains it better but happy to explain further

thank you for doing that. I understand your positions and, whilst i don't agree with you, I respect both your positions and the argument you have crafted. I don't agree but such is life!

At least we CAN disagree!

EDIT - I never criticise people for voting for who they chose, just that they have a thought out reason for doing so.

 

[Halwynd]

I was trying to change jobs at around this time having taken on a new challenge and found I didn't like it and wanted to see what my options were and felt absolutely identical having gone through a near identical process other than actually applying for the benefit having not been eligible due to still being in said job. Like yourself, I won't be sorry to see the back of the current incarnation of the conservative government, but have absolutely zero enthusiasm for its predicted replacement

Sorry to hear you had similar experiences.

I got involved with helping my buddy, writing letters etc... it became dibilitating - sometimes I thought deliberately so.

At the end of the day we each vote with our conscience or convictions. You've done that, so job done.

 

[D1537]

As I explained earlier, interest rates as low as 0.1% are a massive anomaly. Be thankful you didn't have mortgage in the 1970s, as interest rates reached 17%, which again is another anomaly. Mortgage rates now generally lower than the mini budget announced by Kwasi Kwartang, and are predicted to drift lower, no matter who forms the next government.

Again, this is no comfort to those who were screwed over by Truss's incompetence. If her fiscal event hadn't happened, those people would been renewing or beginning their fixed rates on greatly lower rates.

What interest rates were in the 1970s or the fact that 0.1% base was an anomaly (yes, it was) are irrelevant to this particular issue - i.e. that Truss damaged the economy with her fiscal event - which let's face it was mostly massive tax cuts with only a vague wave at how this would be funded. It was so insane that most of it was withdrawn within days - however this was too late to quell the turmoil in the markets.

btw, whilst I didn't have a mortgage in the 70s, I did have one in the 80s ... on a variable rate ... taken out in January 89 ... ouch.

 

[brad465]

The fact that your mortgage hasnt got better is nothing to do with Liz Truss. The impact of her budget was short lived, the impact of Russia's invasion of Ukraine has not been.

Given Labour party policies are virtually no different to those of the Tory party and both are deceiving the electorate about the state of public finances and services and the need for either large tax rises or large public sector cuts, how anyone could vote for either of them is beyond me!

Politicians don't just lie for their own benefit, they do it because a critical mass of the public can't handle the truth and telling the truth is electoral suicide.

 

[nw1]

For interest, I put the current percentages from the vote at the top of this thread into Electoral Calculus. If the vote went that way, the result would be:

LAB: 508
LIB: 102
SNP: 15
GRN: 3
PLC: 3
CON: 1
REF: 0

Full Results

So who is the one Conservative? Knowing our luck it'll be Braverman....

 

[renegademaster]

I trust all the people putting blame for the interest rise on Truss put sole responsibility for the global financial crisis on Gordon Brown?

 

[nw1]

Politicians don't just lie for their own benefit, they do it because a critical mass of the public can't handle the truth and telling the truth is electoral suicide.

The other issue is, are "large public sector cuts" actually acceptable?

Wealthy and financially secure right-wingers who can afford to use the private sector for every aspect of their life might think so, but for others, the devastating impact on many people's lives they will have means they are simply not an option.

A solution that is worse than the problem, and makes things more difficult than they were before, is not really a solution. Quite frankly we've had enough hard times in the last four and a half years and I don't think the population can take much more. Implement swingeing public sector cuts and the anger from the population will, I'm sure, be immense. We need to look at just about any (peaceful and democratic) alternative.

 

[X-City-WM]

So who is the one Conservative? Knowing our luck it'll be Braverman....

This model has Alister Jack in Dumfries and Galloway as the only Tory to retain his seat.

 

[nw1]

This model has Alister Jack in Dumfries and Galloway as the only Tory to retain his seat.

So Scotland keeps a Tory and nowhere else does! That would be ironic...

 

[bavvo]

The other issue is, are "large public sector cuts" actually acceptable?

Wealthy and financially secure right-wingers might think so, but for others, the devastating impact on people's lives they will have means they are simply not an option.

Even wealthy and secure right wingers might not be so keen when the bill comes in for care for elderly care to the tune of £20 - £30k per year because there is no public provision available.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

They called an autistic kid a "vegetable", I'm shocked any disabled person could vote for them.

Who are 'they'?

 

[Bald Rick]

Even wealthy and secure right wingers might not be so keen when the bill comes in for care for elderly care to the tune of £20 - £30k per year because there is no public provision available.

And the rest! Round here it’s £10k/ month!!!

 

[WesternLancer]

Even wealthy and secure right wingers might not be so keen when the bill comes in for care for elderly care to the tune of £20 - £30k per year because there is no public provision available.

Indeed. But that would be bargain care price there. You can look at £1,500 per week per person

 

[DynamicSpirit]

what are they talking sense about? They haven't got any actual policies!

Reform's manifesto is here. It's about 28 pages long. A lot of it is unrealistic and reads to me like the kind of thing you'd come up with in the pub when you're not thinking things through, but it's not true to say they don't have any policies

 

[DarloRich]

but it's not true to say they don't have any policies

It may surprise you but I have read it. I try to read the published manifesto if I can. The problem is they are statements with no substance and certainly no "how". They don't stand up to any test or scrutiny but SOUND great. That, surely, being the essence of populism!

 

[deltic]

it ABSOLUTLY does. This shouldn't be a difficult concept to grasp. it is one of the reasons the Tories will hopefully get the showing they deserve. FAFO as the yoofs say.

It absolutely doesnt - as this graph clearly shows. Liz Truss's budget had no impact on the US or Eurozone economies but interest rates there moved exactly in line with those in the UK. World economies were impacted by rising energy prices caused by the war in Ukraine and very lax monetary policy as a result of quantitative easing due to trying to reduce the economic impacts of COVID leading to rapid increases in inflation.

 

[takno]

It absolutely doesnt - as this graph clearly shows. Liz Truss's budget had no impact on the US or Eurozone economies but interest rates there moved exactly in line with those in the UK. World economies were impacted by rising energy prices caused by the war in Ukraine and very lax monetary policy as a result of quantitative easing due to trying to reduce the economic impacts of COVID leading to rapid increases in inflation.

That's certainly a picture of what the bank base rate did in the UK versus other major economies. Do you have a similar picture of how mortgage payments increased as a proportion of total income in each of those economies? The US and most of Europe have a very different mortgage structure and in general lower home values as a proportion of income.

Interest rates are one way of dealing with inflation, but how appropriate they are is heavily dependent on the structure of the economy they are being applied to. Liz Truss of course understood absolutely none of this, and her budget made it rapidly impossible for any of the rest of us to have an intelligent conversation about it, because it turned a pressing situation into an emergency.

 

[RT4038]

Indeed. But that would be bargain care price there. You can look at £1,500 per week per person

I went to look at one near me recently (not for me!) and it was £1400-1700 per week depending on room.