UK General Election 2024

[Blindtraveler]

Scotland have the worst drink and drugs problems in Europe, yet the SNP insist on electing leaders who are only interested in independence. You wonder if they are the ones with the drink and drugs problems. What a load of tosh Sweeney came out with when the election was called. Disadvantages Scotland because it's in the school holidays. I visit Scotland regularly and a lot of people are turned off by them constantly harping on about independence. They are in cloud cookoo land thinking the EU will take them back with open arms straight after independence.

As a former resident of Scotland, there were times that the SNP drove me to drink
And yes, the one trick pony mentality of the SNP has definitely graded on a good number
I'm being careful what I say here though as I know there is someone here who are firm believers in and supporters of the SNP and the independence cause and upsetting them. Generally results in an arguement and we don't want that but for what it is worth, I completely agree with you on all of your points

 

[dangie]

Keir Starmer is in Scotland. He wants to make Scotland the headquarters of ‘British Green Energy’ a new publicly owned company.

However the SNP and the Conservatives say this will cost tens of thousands of jobs. Obviously this will be in the oil industry.

The Greens though, say it doesn’t go far enough.

Damned if you don’t, damned if you do. A perfect example of whatever one party says, others will criticise.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The S&P have already thrown the oil and gas industry to the wolves several times, so I don't suppose they care much about that, but I actually can't see where the tens of thousands of jobs that it might cost are going to go from. If they are perhaps referring to customer service and back office functions for the current multitude of privatised energy companies, then I don't think it's too much of a concern as so much of it is now automated and they will need the same number of people if not more to run the new national system. So unless they're going to subcontract all of it out to India then surely the legislation could be written in such a way that all current suppliers are disbanded and staff given the option to toupee across

 

[deltic]

Scotland have the worst drink and drugs problems in Europe, yet the SNP insist on electing leaders who are only interested in independence. You wonder if they are the ones with the drink and drugs problems. What a load of tosh Sweeney came out with when the election was called. Disadvantages Scotland because it's in the school holidays. I visit Scotland regularly and a lot of people are turned off by them constantly harping on about independence. They are in cloud cookoo land thinking the EU will take them back with open arms straight after independence.

I have never understood this point of view. The only reason the SNP exists is to campaign for independence. It has perhaps been the most successful party in keeping members who support very socially conservative views and very progressive ones under one roof with the only thing uniting them being independence. If they put anything else as their priority issue they would fall apart faster than they are doing at present.

 

[Trestrol]

The SNP want all the past profit from oil and gas to support independence from the UK government. Which obviously they are not going to get. The greens are idealists a bit like Corbyn was. Taking steps to stop climate change is the right thing to do but, you lead by concencus. Tell the British public your petrol engined car or gas boiler will be obsolete overnight, then tell them it will cost them more to travel or heat their homes. They will be out the door toot sweet. Have you seen Toyota have just launched a new multi fuel engine that people are saying will kill EV? Car companies can't shift EV as nobody is buying them. Rishi knew this which is why the climate targets were pushed back to 2035.

 

[birchesgreen]

Have you seen Toyota have just launched a new multi fuel engine that people are saying will kill EV? Car companies can't shift EV as nobody is buying them. Rishi knew this which is why the climate targets were pushed back to 2035.

I'm sure they have.

 

[sprunt]

Rishi knew this which is why the climate targets were pushed back to 2035.

Do the polar ice caps know this? Perhaps they'll stop melting if somebody tells them.

 

[Trestrol]

Do the polar ice caps know this? Perhaps they'll stop melting if somebody tells them.

Does a fresh chicken know it's use by date? The public will only move when they are on the edge of the abyss.

 

[nw1]

My plan to vote Labour is undergoing serious re-evaluation; I won't vote Conservative but Labour appears to be the best anti-Conservative vote where I live.

The problem to me is that I don't feel happy voting for a party which accepts Natalie Elphicke as an MP (and, I know, she's no longer an MP and not standing for re-election) but which connives and conspires to prevent Diane Abbott from continuing as an MP. I admire Diane Abbott for what she's done, I hardly agree with her on anything, but to me she's representative of a significant part of what I think the Labour Party should be.

I certainly agree about Diane Abbott - though I am very much more sympathetic to her policies and in my view she should be the Labour candidate for her seat. The Labour party is supposed to be a broad church and should reflect that by including left-wingers such as Diane Abbott - who are arguably the heart and soul of the party. I too believe that Elphicke does not really belong in the Labour Party.

However, if you don't vote Labour, does that not risk the possibility of the Tories somehow getting in (albeit probably without a majority) and we end up with 5 more years of Sunak, reactionary right-wing policies, marginalisation of minorities with anti-"woke" nonsense, and with zero progress towards restoring good relations with the EU? I hate to think about what kind of place the UK will become if Sunak wins. An increasingly authoritarian and intolerant place, I suspect, in which liberals and the left are increasingly marginalised.

I am angry about the treatment of DIane Abbott (as well as Faiza Shaheen and Lloyd Russell-Moyle) but the spectre of 5 more years of Sunak and his hard-right politics is sufficiently frightening to just vote for a Labour government for all their faults.

 

[WesternLancer]

I certainly agree about Diane Abbott - though I am very much more sympathetic to her policies and in my view she should be the Labour candidate for her seat. The Labour party is supposed to be a broad church and should reflect that by including left-wingers such as Diane Abbott - who are arguably the heart and soul of the party. I too believe that Elphicke does not really belong in the Labour Party.

However, if you don't vote Labour, does that not risk the possibility of the Tories somehow getting in (albeit probably without a majority) and we end up with 5 more years of Sunak, reactionary right-wing policies, marginalisation of minorities with anti-"woke" nonsense, and with zero progress towards restoring good relations with the EU? I hate to think about what kind of place the UK will become if Sunak wins. An increasingly authoritarian and intolerant place, I suspect, in which liberals and the left are increasingly marginalised.

I am angry about the treatment of DIane Abbott (as well as Faiza Shaheen and Lloyd Russell-Moyle) but the spectre of 5 more years of Sunak and his hard-right politics sufficiently frightening to just vote for a Labour government for all their faults.

This and @jfollows point is a good reason to consider contacting the Labour candidate concerned in the seat you live in and make it known that what is going on makes your prospects for voting for them less certain than it was not long before. They should use their influence to get it resolved within the Party's system.

 

[nw1]

I'm not sure Starmer has a messiah complex but he is purging the party of wacky and individual candidates for an army of normies.

Which I think is more likely to backfire if anything. I suspect the net effect of the Diane Abbott controversy will be that they will have a smaller majority than if they had just let her stand unambiguously.

The Labour party needs to retain its heart and soul as otherwise many will turn off in 2029 I suspect, and the Tories will get back in.

 

[jfollows]

I certainly agree about Diane Abbott - though I am very much more sympathetic to her policies and in my view she should be the Labour candidate for her seat. The Labour party is supposed to be a broad church and should reflect that by including left-wingers such as Diane Abbott - who are arguably the heart and soul of the party. I too believe that Elphicke does not really belong in the Labour Party.

I don't know why they didn't let her back earlier and unambiguously allowed her to stand - providing she wanted to, of course.

However, if you don't vote Labour, does that not risk the possibility of the Tories somehow getting in (albeit probably without a majority) and we end up with 5 more years of Sunak, reactionary right-wing policies, marginalisation of minorities with anti-"woke" nonsense, and with zero progress towards improved relations with the EU?

I hate to think about what kind of place the UK will become if Sunak wins. An increasingly authoritarian and intolerant place, I suspect, in which liberals and the left are increasingly marginalised. The Tories will go around like they own the place, with the confidence that they will likely not lose an election any time soon and thus can force through whatever nonsense they come up with through the support of the even further-right DUP. It will be a truly miserable - and hopeless - environment for those of us who are fundamentally opposed to Sunak and all he stands for.

I am angry about the treatment of Diane Abbott (as well as Faiza Shaheen and Lloyd Russell-Moyle) but the spectre of 5 more years of Sunak and his hard-right politics sufficiently frightening to just vote for a Labour government for all their faults.

The important thing here, of course, isn't my vote but whether large numbers of people in a similar situation are thinking the same, and I don't have a feeling for that.

What I do think is that Starmer needs to close this down now in a proper manner. I think that means allowing all the three people you mention to stand, and be grateful that Corbyn has been so stubborn and stupid that leaving him to stand as an independent and living with the consequences if he wins is fine.

If Starmer doesn't close this issue down soon it's going to fester and detract significantly from his campaign, and more and more people will notice. I don't think it's caused by our press, but of course they love it now that it's happened and aren't going to let it go away.

 

[birchesgreen]

Heh

Iain Dale abandons bid to run for Tory MP in Tunbridge Wells after saying he ‘never liked’ town

LBC presenter quit his job on Tuesday after 14 years to run as a Conservative candidate

www.telegraph.co.uk

Iain Dale has withdrawn from the race to become Tory candidate for Tunbridge Wells just two days after announcing he was quitting his job as a radio presenter to run for Parliament.

The LBC presenter revealed he had decided to drop out of the contest after the Liberal Democrats dug up a podcast in which he had said he “did not like living in Tunbridge Wells and would quite happily live somewhere else”.

 

[nw1]

The important thing here, of course, isn't my vote but whether large numbers of people in a similar situation are thinking the same, and I don't have a feeling for that.

What I do think is that Starmer needs to close this down now in a proper manner. I think that means allowing all the three people you mention to stand, and be grateful that Corbyn has been so stubborn and stupid that leaving him to stand as an independent and living with the consequences if he wins is fine.

If Starmer doesn't close this issue down soon it's going to fester and detract significantly from his campaign, and more and more people will notice. I don't think it's caused by our press, but of course they love it now that it's happened and aren't going to let it go away.

True.

I suppose we have to thank the orange felon for distracting the media today and allowing Labour to sort it out while out of the spotlight a little.

IMV it's clearly the case that he should let all three stand and move on. It's obvious to me that Labour would gain more net respect. I don't think the country is full of people who are frightened of Diane Abbott and Faiza Shaheen being MPs, and nor is it generally frightened of candidates sympathetic to Gazans. Diane Abbott would clearly win in that case, but so would Faiza Shaheen I suspect, and with a good majority. She is a clear contrast with Duncan Smith and would likely win a larger majority than some bland candidate; in the latter case you could even get people not voting Labour in protest and Duncan Smith gets back in.

 

[jfollows]

Starmer took questions just now, with the first two:

1. BBC on him ditching candidates and policies, so how can he be trusted to do what he says?
2. ITV on Diane Abbott

He needs to act fast to change the agenda.

 

[nw1]

I am getting a bit concerned that too much complacency is beginning to appear. There is a risk that too many likely Labour voters will say that the party is bound to get in, so they won’t bother to vote as it doesn’t really need their vote.

On the other hand if the polls narrow a little, I suspect that complacency will disappear.

 

[AlterEgo]

Which I think is more likely to backfire if anything. I suspect the net effect of the Diane Abbott controversy will be that they will have a smaller majority than if they had just let her stand unambiguously.

The Labour party needs to retain its heart and soul as otherwise many will turn off in 2029 I suspect, and the Tories will get back in.

I agree that the normification of Labour is unwelcome. I can’t quite put my finger on why, but it seems to me at least that an overbearing grey-beige party will tend to be ridiculously managerialist. Governance by a HR department.

 

[SynthD]

Saying that the country will be managed by managerial type people seems more of a compliment than I think intended. It’s a wise and newspaper-proof plan to be boring, consistent. Now all Starmer has to do is be consistently good, and these candidate changes aren’t good.

 

[deltic]

Car companies can't shift EV as nobody is buying them. Rishi knew this which is why the climate targets were pushed back to 2035.

Over 100,000 battery EVs sold in first 4 months of the year with 17% market share in April plus another 150.000 hybrid EVs. Plenty of people are buying them.

 

[jfollows]

It looks as if Diane Abbott will be standing for Labour (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-69078711):

Abbott will be Labour's candidate in Hackney - party source​

In the last few minutes, we've heard Labour leader Keir Starmer say Diane Abbott is "free to go forward" as a Labour candidate.
A senior Labour source has clarified that this means Abbott will be Labour's candidate in the constituency of Hackney North and Stoke Newington.
They also confirm the National Executive Committee (NEC), Labour's governing body, will not block her.
The committee will meet next week to endorse all Labour's candidates before nominations legally close on 7 June.

It took too long to get to the right place.

 

[WesternLancer]

It looks as if Diane Abbott will be standing for Labour (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-69078711):

It took too long to get to the right place.

How can Sir K know that for sure - it's an independent process under the control of the NEC surely, nothing to do with him

 

[Thirteen]

I wonder if it's likely that Diane Abbott may end up not standing, given how unwell she looked in appearances in the last few days, I'm not sure if she can do five more years as a MP.

 

[birchesgreen]

How can Sir K know that for sure - it's an independent process under the control of the NEC surely, nothing to do with him

Well as Starmer is on the NEC i suspect he knows what decisions are being made by it.

 

[WesternLancer]

Well as Starmer is on the NEC i suspect he knows what decisions are being made by it.

what - even before they make the decisions (which is next Tuesday as I understand it)?
Funnily enough though, I suspect he does know what will happen on Tuesday...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 May 2024 ==

I wonder if it's likely that Diane Abbott may end up not standing, given how unwell she looked in appearances in the last few days, I'm not sure if she can do five more years as a MP.

If key people in the LP knew that was a possibility then it shows they have handled this even more badly than it appears, by letting this drag on as they appear to have done. It may force her to feel she needs to stand even though that may not be in the best interests of her own health.

She has been treated poorly in my view, at a personal level if nothing else.

And it should not be forgotten that it was the whatsapp group of LP staff a few years ago who made very disparaging remarks about her in internal conversations (staff, who in my view had they done a better job in the run up to the 2015 election might have saved the Labour Party from the internal chaos that emerged after the 2015 defeat).

From the Guardian:
The report by Martin Forde QC found that some of the attitudes expressed towards Abbott and other Bame MPs in private WhatsApp messages among staffers hostile to Jeremy Corbyn represented “overt and underlying racism and sexism”.

Abbott said she had received no apology for the comments, which Forde said used “expressions of visceral disgust, drawing (consciously or otherwise) on racist tropes, and they bear little resemblance to the criticisms of white male MPs elsewhere in the messages”.

 

[birchesgreen]

what - even before they make the decisions (which is next Tuesday as I understand it)?
Funnily enough though, I suspect he does know what will happen on Tuesday...

He said she is free to go forward as a candidate, when she had the whip restored. He didn't say she would be the candidate (though i suspect after the last few days it would be strange if it didn't happen now).

 

[AlterEgo]

Saying that the country will be managed by managerial type people seems more of a compliment than I think intended. It’s a wise and newspaper-proof plan to be boring, consistent. Now all Starmer has to do is be consistently good, and these candidate changes aren’t good.

It’s not good to be boring when the country is in a total mess and needs something radical.

 

[WesternLancer]

He said she is free to go forward as a candidate, when she had the whip restored. He didn't say she would be the candidate (though i suspect after the last few days it would be strange if it didn't happen now).

Points well made.

 

[The Ham]

The SNP want all the past profit from oil and gas to support independence from the UK government. Which obviously they are not going to get. The greens are idealists a bit like Corbyn was. Taking steps to stop climate change is the right thing to do but, you lead by concencus. Tell the British public your petrol engined car or gas boiler will be obsolete overnight, then tell them it will cost them more to travel or heat their homes. They will be out the door toot sweet. Have you seen Toyota have just launched a new multi fuel engine that people are saying will kill EV? Car companies can't shift EV as nobody is buying them. Rishi knew this which is why the climate targets were pushed back to 2035.

Heating homes (in real terms) has got cheaper for people as homes have got better insulated.

Cost of lighting homes have done likewise as bulbs have moved to being LED.

No one is suggesting that gas boilers will become obsolete overnight.

Maybe you need to look at the SMMT new car data:

Over 100,000 battery EVs sold in first 4 months of the year with 17% market share in April plus another 150.000 hybrid EVs. Plenty of people are buying them.

Indeed, however not only that but the numbers and market share have both increased compared to last year.

However this is also meaning that there's a fairly rapid growth in the total number of EV's compared to a few years ago.

If anything the car fuel which is at risk is diesel, where there's slightly less than half the number is new cars as EV's (46,304 vs 107,031) and had lost 1.4% market share compared to the first for month is last year (at 6.8% down from 8.2%).

 

[Irascible]

It’s not good to be boring when the country is in a total mess and needs something radical.

I think, after so many years of reactionary and contradictory government, that it's exactly what's needed at home.

Given the situation in the rest of the world, then it's absolutely not what you want for foreign policy.

You are voting for who represents you best in your ward, remember.

 

[AlterEgo]

I think, after so many years of reactionary and contradictory government, that it's exactly what's needed at home.

Sorry, is your argument that what is needed is more baking in of the status quo which has been, as you've said, set by a reactionary and contradictory government? If that's the case we are completely cooked. Incapable of visualising something better or fairer, as long as we have some stability as our society declines.

Given the situation in the rest of the world, then it's absolutely not what you want for foreign policy.

I don't understand this point, what situation are you thinking of, and how do you think a milquetoast government of managerialists would be better to handle it?

You are voting for who represents you best in your ward, remember.

That's very idealistic. I will not be voting for the best candidate. I will be voting for the one who has the best chance of unseating the Conservative one.