UK General Election 2024

[HSTEd]

The thing is she and many like her were a very significant part of the Labour Party in 2019 and consequently suffered the worst election defeat since 1935. Many people were put off by the idea of her being Home Secretary, so while I would accept them being part of a small faction of Labour who can influence the wider party to take a more distinctive left-of-centre stance so as not to become Tories in red ties, having them near positions of power is electoral poison.

She was also a major part of the Labour party at the only general election at which Labour have net gained seats this millennium (at least for the next few weeks). And it did it against a backdrop of massive and repeated sabotage by the labour right.

If it was as simple as what you claim, that would not have happened.

This is just Starmer trying to purge anyone who is not a mindless drone from the party. Which is also why he loved the idea of Natalie Elphicke, she will be an MP that has no independent support base and is entirely dependent on his patronage. He envisages a future parliamentary party that is merely an extension of his will - he has the same messiah complex as Tony Blair, but without any of Blair's redeeming qualities.

We can see this in his desperate attempts to purge them without admitting he is doing it, using standard lawyer get-out clauses.
The NEC might technically make the decision, but it is pretty much a rubber stamp for Starmer's will at this point.

If the NEC has not made a decision, it is because he commands it and for no other reason.

 

[najaB]

but which connives and conspires to prevent Diane Abbott from continuing as an MP.

I don't know if it makes any difference, but Angela Rayor has said, as deputy leader, that there's no reason Diane Abbot can't stand.

 

[jfollows]

The thing is she and many like her were a very significant part of the Labour Party in 2019 and consequently suffered the worst election defeat since 1935. Many people were put off by the idea of her being Home Secretary, so while I would accept them being part of a small faction of Labour who can influence the wider party to take a more distinctive left-of-centre stance so as not to become Tories in red ties, having them near positions of power is electoral poison.

Yes, I hear you, but there is no implication that Abbott would have any position of power under Starmer, and the wider electorate knows that in the main, what’s now happening is grubby and unfair to her and those (not me) who believe in her and her ideas.

 

[Sorcerer]

She was also a major part of the Labour party at the only general election at which Labour have net gained seats this millennium (at least for the next few weeks). And it did it against a backdrop of massive and repeated sabotage by the labour right.

If it was as simple as this, that would not have happened.

If you refer to the 2017 general election, then also consider the fact that this was against Theresa May who Jeremy Paxman referred to as "a blowhard who collapses at the first sign of gunfire", and even despite all the hopelessness of the Conservative Party there and then, Labour still lost. In no other kind of election would falling 64 seats short of a majority and coming second place be considered a victory. You can blame the centrist factions of the Labour Party, the Tory-leaning press, and Brexit for that as much as you like, but a lot of people also recognised that someone like Diane Abbott should not have her powers extended beyond being an MP for her constituents.

Yes, I hear you, but there is no implication that Abbott would have any position of power under Starmer, and the wider electorate knows that in the main, what’s now happening is grubby and unfair to her and those (not me) who believe in her and her ideas.

Personally I'm kind of indifferent to the whole situation. I can accept the idea that Starmer has tried too hard on his course corrections from Jeremy Corbyn's abominable loss in 2019, but Abbott is a very controversial figure (for many reasons which I won't get into) who doesn't fit the new image of a more centrist Labour Party, so I can see why he might want to not to have her running for him. I don't know enough to say whether or not it was the right decision, but I doubt it will actually be something that will hurt Labour come polling day.

 

[HSTEd]

but a lot of people also recognised that someone like Diane Abbott should not have her powers extended beyond being an MP for her constituents.

Well now Starmer has gone rather beyond that and demanded she be purged from the party, but isn't even willing to admit that he is doing it.

so I can see why he might want to not to have her running for him

She is not and was never running for Starmer.
Starmer might believe that he is the party, but he is not.

 

[najaB]

Well now Starmer has gone rather beyond that and demanded she be purged from the party, but isn't even willing to admit that he is doing it.

I missed that, would you be kind enough as to provide a source please?

 

[Thirteen]

If it were me, I would let Diane Abbott stand on the condition she stands down at the next election. Given her health issues, I think it would allow to bow out gracefully since she'd probably would want to retire after that.

 

[HSTEd]

I missed that, would you be kind enough as to provide a source please?

The NEC has not permitted her to stand, and the NEC is controlled by Starmer loyalists.

 

[deltic]

If it were me, I would let Diane Abbott stand on the condition she stands down at the next election. Given her health issues, I think it would allow to bow out gracefully since she'd probably would want to retire after that.

She was meant to be retiring at this election and probably would have done if her suspension hadn't dragged on so long. Classic case of Labour shooting itself in the foot.

 

[DarloRich]

If it were me, I would let Diane Abbott stand on the condition she stands down at the next election. Given her health issues, I think it would allow to bow out gracefully since she'd probably would want to retire after that.

I would have said: You can come back into the party IF you accept a move to the Lords or retire with an agreed valedictory statement. Those or your choices.

the NEC is controlled by Starmer loyalists.

The NEC is an independent governing body. it just happens to agree with the leader ( as it did, mostly, under Corbyn)

 

[najaB]

The NEC is an independent governing body. it just happens to agree with the leader ( as it did, mostly, under Corbyn)

As I would expect - an organisation isn't likely to get very far if their governing body and leader are constantly at loggerheads!

 

[DarloRich]

She was meant to be retiring at this election and probably would have done if her suspension hadn't dragged on so long. Classic case of Labour shooting itself in the foot.

how many in the real world will care? Starmer can once again point to how how is cleaning up the party and getting "the highest quality candidates" etc

Would the Tory press be so interested in Tory candidate machinations?

 

[brad465]

Not a defection now but another former Tory MP backing Labour:

Mark Logan: Former Tory MP backs Labour at general election

Mark Logan, who is standing down as an MP, says the Tory Party is "unrecognisable" from a decade ago.

www.bbc.co.uk

Former Conservative MP Mark Logan has said he is backing Labour at the next general election, saying the party could "bring back optimism into British life".
In an exclusive interview with BBC News, Mr Logan, who represented Bolton North East for the Tories until Parliament dissolved on Thursday, said Labour had been on a "journey" and now offered "centrist politics".
He added that the Tory Party was now "unrecognisable" from the party he joined a decade ago.
Mr Logan won his seat with a majority of just 378 in 2019, making it one of the most marginal in the country.
He said his application to join Labour was "going in today".
Mr Logan, who supported Brexit, is standing down at this election and Labour has already chosen a candidate for his former constituency.
However, asked if he could run for Labour in the future, he said: "I wouldn't rule out coming back into public life."
Explaining his decision to support Labour, he said: "The time has come to bring back optimism into British public life."
He compared the mood of the country to New Labour's 1997 election campaign, which had Things Can Only Get Better as its official anthem, and was followed by a landslide victory for the party.
"When I look back to my teenage years, in 1997 when Labour came to the fore at that time and we obviously heard the song Things Can Only Get Better, I feel that we're at that point again in British politics and British history," he said.
He added: "For my constituents and for the country, it's right that we get some stability back into the UK, we get optimism, we get new and fresh ideas."

 

[D6130]

Not a defection now but another former Tory MP backing Labour:

Mark Logan: Former Tory MP backs Labour at general election

Mark Logan, who is standing down as an MP, says the Tory Party is "unrecognisable" from a decade ago.

www.bbc.co.uk

.....and the band played on as the ship slid slowly under the icy waters.

 

[Busaholic]

She was meant to be retiring at this election and probably would have done if her suspension hadn't dragged on so long. Classic case of Labour shooting itself in the foot.

''Meant to be''? She'd never uttered a word on the subject that I know of, or we can be sure that the Mail, Telegraph or GB News would be highlighting it now! It's just Sir Starmer's control freakery and shows who exactly he is listening to, which is both the unelected officials he's appointed and the voices of the late and unlamented (by the population as a whole) 'New Labour' that received its marching orders in 2010, but some of whose Top Dogs refuse to go quietly despite their, in some cases, fabulous wealth derived from their previous activities. I see Douglas Alexander, one of the breed displaced by the SNP in Scotland bigtime, has now inveighled himself back in and awarded the plummest likely Lab gain in East Lothian, rather than a Glasgow seat of his fixer days.

Never mind, Labour will now welcome any Tory MP or recent ex-MP who transitions to Labour in place of people who've devoted their lives to what might be called socialist principles. Animal Farm is alive and well.

 

[takno]

''Meant to be''? She'd never uttered a word on the subject that I know of, or we can be sure that the Mail, Telegraph or GB News would be highlighting it now! It's just Sir Starmer's control freakery and shows who exactly he is listening to, which is both the unelected officials he's appointed and the voices of the late and unlamented (by the population as a whole) 'New Labour' that received its marching orders in 2010, but some of whose Top Dogs refuse to go quietly despite their, in some cases, fabulous wealth derived from their previous activities. I see Douglas Alexander, one of the breed displaced by the SNP in Scotland bigtime, has now inveighled himself back in and awarded the plummest likely Lab gain in East Lothian, rather than a Glasgow seat of his fixer days.

Never mind, Labour will now welcome any Tory MP or recent ex-MP who transitions to Labour in place of people who've devoted their lives to what might be called socialist principles. Animal Farm is alive and well.

The left wing is still clearly alive in the party and still seems determined to lose the election for Labour. Their main complaint appears to be that they're back to being an irrelevant rump, and don't have the power to actually throw it.

 

[Trestrol]

The country will not vote in a far left Labour government, those days are gone. Tony Blair knew that and that's why he moved the party to centre left. Kier Stammer is trying to do the same. I think it's a bit hypocritical to accuse the Labour party of purging the party of the far left, remember momentum? Purging the labour party of the centre left under Corbyn's reign? Diane will probably been aware of that being so "close" to Corbyn. Looking at her public appearance she really didn't look well, shaking hands, slurred speech and helped by others. I hope she gets the medical attention she needs but don't think she is fit enough to stand.
?

 

[Purple Train]

The left wing is still clearly alive in the party and still seems determined to lose the election for Labour. Their main complaint appears to be that they're back to being an irrelevant rump, and don't have the power to actually throw it.

Indeed, and it does make me quite conflicted about the whole affair. Partially because Starmer would probably try and boot me out if I was an MP, but equally, isn't it essentially the equivalent of a hypothetical Tory leader trying to boot out the likes of Braverman and Badenoch (for which I imagine there would be less uproar)?

Starmer does need to be careful here - even with a gargantuan poll lead, he neither wants nor needs to start a controversy when he needs a 12% swing to get the keys to number 10. The Ming vase isn't glued to his hands.

 

[DarloRich]

The country will not vote in a far left Labour government

the country has NEVER voted in a far left government. Which of Attlee, Wilson or Blair was far left?

( we will put aside Ramsey MacDonald)

 

[Gloster]

I am getting a bit concerned that too much complacency is beginning to appear. There is a risk that too many likely Labour voters will say that the party is bound to get in, so they won’t bother to vote as it doesn’t really need their vote. At the same time at least some within Labour seem to be so sure of winning that they are getting started on the post-election bloodletting already. Yes, the nutters in momentum need to be kept under control, but infighting in the run-up to an election is never a good idea.

I have to say that I think that Corbyn and, to a lesser extent, Abbott’s continuing intention to stand is pure self-indulgence. Not only is he 75 and she 70, but all they are likely to do is damage the party they profess to care so much about. However, I doubt if they see it like that.

My problem with Starmer at the moment (*) is that he seems to continue to be frightened of the Hate Mail and its ilk. I know that they, regrettably, have a far stronger influence on the party’s policies than they should, but there are areas where he really needs to stand up and put forward a line which is far more appropriate to the current situation than he has done so far, even if the Hate Mail blows a gasket. He is never going to get them on side (at best they might tone down some aspects of their criticism) and any readers who are going to vote Labour have probably already decided to do so, but he stands a chance of getting voters from the centre and centre-left who are wavering because he is too wishy-washy. I am also concerned about the way that they keep making pledges about not spending money on this or raising that tax: they may hamstring themselves so that they can’t do what they should without breaking a promise.

* - Anybody who supports Labour knows that there will be plenty of problems and disappointments to come: it goes with the party.

 

[takno]

Indeed, and it does make me quite conflicted about the whole affair. Partially because Starmer would probably try and boot me out if I was an MP, but equally, isn't it essentially the equivalent of a hypothetical Tory leader trying to boot out the likes of Braverman and Badenoch (for which I imagine there would be less uproar)?

Is there any uproar? It seems to me that they've tried to do the decent thing for the benefit of both Abbot and the party. Arguably they've been at pains to treat her properly even though the easiest and most effective way to shut it down would have been to just leave her suspended from the party.

The whole affair has just been stirred up by a combination of the Times, and "friends" of Abbot who seem quite happy to bully her into wasting her hard-earned retirement on the backbenches.

The party are allowing her to stand and paying fulsome tributes to her. It seems at the moment that she's going to insist on actually standing rather than bowing out gracefully, which is quite sad all round. Unfortunately, because she was part of a clique which continues to alarm the electorate, it's necessary for the leadership to make it clear that she doesn't have any real power or influence.

For all the dramatic headlines and column inches, how many ordinary people actually care?

 

[BrianW]

Indeed, and it does make me quite conflicted about the whole affair. Partially because Starmer would probably try and boot me out if I was an MP, but equally, isn't it essentially the equivalent of a hypothetical Tory leader trying to boot out the likes of Braverman and Badenoch (for which I imagine there would be less uproar)?

Starmer does need to be careful here - even with a gargantuan poll lead, he neither wants nor needs to start a controversy when he needs a 12% swing to get the keys to number 10. The Ming vase isn't glued to his hands.

Ah yes- the 'Ming' vase- hand-thrown away and broken, made in BirMINGham- can it be fixed? Maybe a case for Kintsugi- cracks filled with gold?

 

[birchesgreen]

Is there any uproar? It seems to me that they've tried to do the decent thing for the benefit of both Abbot and the party. Arguably they've been at pains to treat her properly even though the easiest and most effective way to shut it down would have been to just leave her suspended from the party.

The whole affair has just been stirred up by a combination of the Times, and "friends" of Abbot who seem quite happy to bully her into wasting her hard-earned retirement on the backbenches.

Yes a lot of it was engineered by the Tories and their mates in the press, though Labour dithering gave them the way in.

I doubt the "uproar" will affect the polls much, especially so early in the campaign. But Labour need to up their game a bit and see these traps before them can be sprung.

 

[Thirteen]

The country will not vote in a far left Labour government, those days are gone. Tony Blair knew that and that's why he moved the party to centre left. Kier Stammer is trying to do the same. I think it's a bit hypocritical to accuse the Labour party of purging the party of the far left, remember momentum? Purging the labour party of the centre left under Corbyn's reign? Diane will probably been aware of that being so "close" to Corbyn. Looking at her public appearance she really didn't look well, shaking hands, slurred speech and helped by others. I hope she gets the medical attention she needs but don't think she is fit enough to stand.
?

I think if she stands and wins, she may be forced to cut her term short due to illness

 

[AlterEgo]

This is just Starmer trying to purge anyone who is not a mindless drone from the party. Which is also why he loved the idea of Natalie Elphicke, she will be an MP that has no independent support base and is entirely dependent on his patronage. He envisages a future parliamentary party that is merely an extension of his will - he has the same messiah complex as Tony Blair, but without any of Blair's redeeming qualities.

I'm not sure Starmer has a messiah complex but he is purging the party of wacky and individual candidates for an army of normies.

 

[spyinthesky]

It will be used to provide quite a lot of unpaid labour to care homes, propping up that system.
The net cost of forcing 700,000 people to do unpaid labour in care homes et al probably isn't that high. At least in cash terms.

Which in turn means the pensioners who would voting the Tories in will be looked after by those who they apparently despise, the youth.

 

[HSTEd]

Which in turn means the pensioners who would voting the Tories in will be looked after by those who they apparently despise, the youth.

Which, a cynic might suggest, is the point.

 

[Irascible]

The country will not vote in a far left Labour government, those days are gone. Tony Blair knew that and that's why he moved the party to centre left. Kier Stammer is trying to do the same. I think it's a bit hypocritical to accuse the Labour party of purging the party of the far left, remember momentum? Purging the labour party of the centre left under Corbyn's reign? Diane will probably been aware of that being so "close" to Corbyn. Looking at her public appearance she really didn't look well, shaking hands, slurred speech and helped by others. I hope she gets the medical attention she needs but don't think she is fit enough to stand.
?

Keep going... remember Kinnock vs Militant Tendancy? post Michael Foot's unilateral disarmament policies ( in 1983! ) and subsequent thrashing. I agree, this country will just wander from slightly right of centre to slightly left & back, with very little difference in actual govt. At least Blair's lot managed to let you go to A&E & expect to be seen.

I am getting a bit concerned that too much complacency is beginning to appear. There is a risk that too many likely Labour voters will say that the party is bound to get in, so they won’t bother to vote as it doesn’t really need their vote. At the same time at least some within Labour seem to be so sure of winning that they are getting started on the post-election bloodletting already. Yes, the nutters in momentum need to be kept under control, but infighting in the run-up to an election is never a good idea.

If anyone wins there I suspect it'll be the LibDems.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Yes, I definitely very complacent labour party is currently on show for all to see
As things stand, I don't think they'll get the requisite number of votes from England alone and neither will the conservatives
The infighting within the party and uncertainty about candidates being allowed to stand or otherwise. Pl. The currently unconfirmed but suspected by some purging of potential candidates is bad behaviour at any time but with 5 weeks to go is just the worst display and shows that in some aspects at least this is the same old labour party behaving the same old way
The conservatives are going through a very obvious tilting it wingmills phase with this completely moronic national service thing and another phase of parachuting in candidates from far and wide to fill seats. And I'm not saying other parties aren't guilty of this either because they are. But the Tories do seem particularly bad for it and meanwhile north of the border, the SNP are buried deep in a quagmire of largely their own making and seem to have lost the map to the exit
The major parties are going to need the devolved Nations votes to prop them up I think and at the moment it could go any way as whilst I think labour will do well in Scotland. I don't know about Wales this time and even then I think the liberal democrats could come in and split the vote in several places which could make for an interesting makeup at Westminster, especially as thus far the big two have ruled out a coalition with them

 

[Trestrol]

Scotland have the worst drink and drugs problems in Europe, yet the SNP insist on electing leaders who are only interested in independence. You wonder if they are the ones with the drink and drugs problems. What a load of tosh Sweeney came out with when the election was called. Disadvantages Scotland because it's in the school holidays. I visit Scotland regularly and a lot of people are turned off by them constantly harping on about independence. They are in cloud cookoo land thinking the EU will take them back with open arms straight after independence.