UK face coverings discussion

[Richard Scott]

It’s law in Scotland sadly. According to Sturgeon, it makes people talk more loudly and increases the risk as a result.

What total rubbish, she's making this up as she goes along, where's her scientific proof? Like all other politicians and silly policies there isn't any.

 

[kez19]

It’s law in Scotland sadly. According to Sturgeon, it makes people talk more loudly and increases the risk as a result.

I got to laugh at that...yet I was walking past retail shops today and music blaring especially along Argyll Street what utter bull crap (I will give the stores there due at least it wasn’t pure Scottish bagpipe music) it was songs in a mix and from several decades!


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Sep 2020 ==

What total rubbish, she's making this up as she goes along, where's her scientific proof? Like all other politicians and silly policies there isn't any.

It’s the same with when she claimed something like being in a pub you will breathe differently to something else or was that the gym?, when asked on proof just roll with “I’ll get back to you”, no proper follow ups with the media... yes no wonder even I can’t be bothered with the news these days! It’s ok though the BBC have rolled over for her to continue her “daily” briefings... maybe if the BBC get a backbone maybe tell her to keep it to less than 20 mins? (far from political here but maybe get on with the day job than be in front of tv just like everyone else?)

 

[HSTEd]

I do fear for the hospitality sector as I don't see this being viable for a prolonged period without either financial support or significant easing of restrictions before Christmas, neither of which seems likely at this point sadly.

What do you need a hospitality sector for when you can just listen to the leader's daily speeches?

 

[Huntergreed]

I got to laugh at that...yet I was walking past retail shops today and music blaring especially along Argyll Street what utter bull crap (I will give the stores there due at least it wasn’t pure Scottish bagpipe music) it was songs in a mix and from several decades!

I completely agree it’s utter nonsense and it’s just political (I can look “safe” more than you, Boris!) Its only the law in pubs but not shops (at least not yet!)

It’s the same with when she claimed something like being in a pub you will breathe differently to something else or was that the gym?, when asked on proof just roll with “I’ll get back to you”, no proper follow ups with the media... yes no wonder even I can’t be bothered with the news these days! It’s ok though the BBC have rolled over for her to continue her “daily” briefings... maybe if the BBC get a backbone maybe tell her to keep it to less than 20 mins? (far from political here but maybe get on with the day job than be in front of tv just like everyone else?)

Indeed, she’s doing it for:

Attention
To look better than Boris to support her independence campaign
To feel powerful

It’s growing rather tiresome :/

 

[kez19]

I completely agree it’s utter nonsense and it’s just political (I can look “safe” more than you, Boris!) Its only the law in pubs but not shops (at least not yet!)



Indeed, she’s doing it for:

Attention
To look better than Boris to support her independence campaign
To feel powerful

It’s growing rather tiresome :/

But remember follow 2 weeks or month behind Boris though...

If it’s to make her feel powerful she looks more restless being on daily... I wonder if maybe soon she’ll properly crack in her briefings, storm out in a sense (I see this coming), as there has been a few times it looks like she is rabbit caught between the headlights regarding questions, so I think the breakdown is heading that way

 

[Skimpot flyer]

That is the point - the minister potentially having acted repeatedly to bypass parliamentary scrutiny, failed to carry out impact assessments (which might have led to the law being different), perhaps legislating in breach of human rights and people subject to life-changing financial penalties from mere PCSOs (amounts many times larger than ever before using this type of mechanism) and potentially criminal records (some trials already scheduled) etc
His latest ruse this week has been to try to get away with extending the reach of the penalties to those who don't follow the government's separate and completely unregulated "guidance" (which might have posed a problem for Cummings' get-out mechanism if they'd tried this trick sooner - you might argue Cummings breached guidance but not law, but now they're writing wider all-encompassing penalties into law but allowing exemptions if you're following their separate guidance which they can change on a whim without any parliamentary involvement). The bureaucrats are continuing to push the boundaries of our governing dictatorship against a weak opposition, a weak parliament and weak courts and one of those three calling them out and attempting to wind some of this back is long overdue.

Applicable in our current situation as in the US, this quote from Ronald Reagan springs to mind:

‘Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free’

 

[HSTEd]

‘Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free’

Freedom isn't Free.

Unfortunately when the time came for a certain sector of society to make their generation's payment, they decided it wasn't worth it.

 

[Richard Scott]

I completely agree it’s utter nonsense and it’s just political (I can look “safe” more than you, Boris!) Its only the law in pubs but not shops (at least not yet!)



Indeed, she’s doing it for:

Attention
To look better than Boris to support her independence campaign
To feel powerful

It’s growing rather tiresome :/

Agreed but I think it got tiresome months ago!!!

 

[furlong]

But (I should have said) from what I recall the people behind the challenge seem to be expecting that if they are successful it will mean the government will have to drop all restrictions and let the country go back to 'normal'. And I do not think that is true.

The action was to quash the regulations but with the option of a short delay to give the government time to replace them with lawful ones (e.g. proportionate given the current level of risk, not in contravention of human rights law, with prior parliamentary approval - depending on what the court decides). But postponement keeps raising the stakes and by the end of October we ought to have a more general understanding of the false positives, a consistent cycle threshold cut-off (the government rushed out a paper on this last week and I suspect it's one of the reasons behind the current reduction in testing) and maybe even the required follow-up testing where the quantity found is low.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Sep 2020 ==

if a customer uses the new government app with the government-supplied QR code poster that identifies to the app the premises, this does not discharge the duty on the premises to collect the information itself. Use of the app apparently supplements and does not replace other Track and Trace requirements.

The regulations now published do allow scanning of the QR code as an alternative but premises will still need to take names to protect themselves against accustaions that they were not complying, as they have no way to prove QR codes were actually scanned by the government app. Premises must display the government poster (propaganda) and local authorities can enforce. People who haven't given details must not be allowed to enter, thereby laying the groundwork for the immunity passports to accompany "non-mandatory" vaccination. If the latest rumours going around are to be believed, it seems we won't have another "national" lockdown (keeping that high-profile promise), but everyone will just be subject to a different "local" lockdown instead - some of which will require masks more extensively than now

 

[DB]

People who haven't given details must not be allowed to enter,

Is that actually law, or guidance which they are pretending is law?

 

[island]

Is that actually law, or guidance which they are pretending is law?

It is law, specifically section 16 (1) of The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Collection of Contact Details etc and Related Requirements) Regulations 2020. The section also requires the refusal of entry to a premises to anyone providing false details.

 

[DB]

It is law, specifically section 16 (1) of The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Collection of Contact Details etc and Related Requirements) Regulations 2020. The section also requires the refusal of entry to a premises to anyone providing false details.

Thanks. Wonder what that will do to customer numbers? I certainly won't be going in anywhere where this applies.

 

[island]

Well, then you won’t be going into any restaurant, bar, café, barber, community centre, or village hall, amongst other things.

 

[DB]

Well, then you won’t be going into any restaurant, bar, café, barber, community centre, or village hall, amongst other things.

Indeed. I'm sure I won't be alone in this either - yet more economic damage to businesses as a result of knee-jerk reactions with no coherent policy behind them.

 

[trebor79]

It is law, specifically section 16 (1) of The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Collection of Contact Details etc and Related Requirements) Regulations 2020. The section also requires the refusal of entry to a premises to anyone providing false details.

How are they meant to know if details are false or not? There is no way a business can easily do this, as we don't have identity cards in this country.

 

[35B]

How are they meant to know if details are false or not? There is no way a business can easily do this, as we don't have identity cards in this country.

Local businesses will know people, other businesses might well have booking details on file. This whole wormhole of "how can I avoid engaging with the law" is deeply depressing, and says something very sad about those who are engaging in it, even though the general point about this being a grave intrusion is justified.

 

[DB]

Local businesses will know people, other businesses might well have booking details on file. This whole wormhole of "how can I avoid engaging with the law" is deeply depressing, and says something very sad about those who are engaging in it, even though the general point about this being a grave intrusion is justified.

To me, it says that the government is over-stepping the mark if people who would normally be law-abiding are looking for ways to circumvent the law.

 

[trebor79]

Local businesses will know people, other businesses might well have booking details on file. This whole wormhole of "how can I avoid engaging with the law" is deeply depressing, and says something very sad about those who are engaging in it, even though the general point about this being a grave intrusion is justified.

To me, it says that the government is over-stepping the mark if people who would normally be law-abiding are looking for ways to circumvent the law.

Indeed. As far as I'm concerned the government itself is avoiding the rule of law by utilising "emergency powers" to invent legislation when there is plenty of opportunity for it to be debated in the normal manner.
I'm not saying I would give false details, I'm just not sure how businesses are meant to verify them. Local businesses might know me by sight, they might know my first name but they don't know where I live or my surname. I could also claim my legal name is different from the one I am known by (I had a girlfriend once who's brother was Robert, but was known by everybody, including his family as Jack for some reason that nobody was quite sure of. It did cause him problems with official stuff like getting a passport application countersigned as people thought the details he'd entered were incorrect).

It's just another poorly thought out knee jerk. The irony is that is government followed due process, they might end up with better legislation that is fit for purpose!

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Well, then you won’t be going into any restaurant, bar, café, barber, community centre, or village hall, amongst other things.

As little as 6 months ago, if someone had told the population that any time you want to go to any restaurant, bar, café, barber, community centre, or village hall, you’d have to leave a digital trail of your movements, including forced use of card payments (even on the bus / train into town), there would considerable unease.
Why not just stick a tracking chip under our skin, and be done with it?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Well, then you won’t be going into any restaurant, bar, café, barber, community centre, or village hall, amongst other things.

It's only the first 3 of those places that are legally required to prevent you from entering if you don't provide details. The others must request you to do so but are under no obligation to force you to do so.

 

[kez19]

There was a takeaway shop on the outskirts of Glasgow with a poster saying "to enter masks must be worn", spotted this on the bus heading to Victoria Park yesterday. Just to also add I didn't get any bother walking around Glasgow when I didn't have my snood up and that includes on buses (guess driver discretion and again just my own opinion here)

Train journey was actually OK today was a bit more relaxed compared to Monday but noted again no inspections of tickets (both directions on Monday and today on return), carriages (well the carriage I was in was quiet), everyone had masks on including driver/conductor. The one thing I do agree on is that Scotrail really needs to up its game in terms of E/M Tickets if thats the way forward (I know LNER are possibly XC too?)

 

[trainophile]

On a TfW train today on the Marches line, two Security bods (according to the back of their jackets) walking through the 3-coach train a couple of times between each station and telling people to put their masks on, or to wear them properly. Overkill, or the shape of things to come?

 

[Trackman]

On a TfW train today on the Marches line, two Security bods (according to the back of their jackets) walking through the 3-coach train a couple of times between each station and telling people to put their masks on, or to wear them properly. Overkill, or the shape of things to come?

oh, I would have loved them to say that to me - they would be in for a mouthful.

 

[kez19]

On a TfW train today on the Marches line, two Security bods (according to the back of their jackets) walking through the 3-coach train a couple of times between each station and telling people to put their masks on, or to wear them properly. Overkill, or the shape of things to come?

I wonder if they were the COVID marshals Boris spoke of?

 

[STINT47]

Arrived at Cannon Street earlier to find more staff wearing purple jackets than passengers. I was wearing the sunflower and despite a few looks no one said anything.

Went downstairs to the tube. Two police officers stood in the ticket hall. Was expecting to be challenged but walked past with nothing said.

Perhaps there is hope.

 

[F Great Eastern]

edit: found better thread.

 

[Yew]

I have complied with all the regulations from day one. Why should I have to potentially suffer a loss of employment because it's deemed more important to provide someones right to an education, despite the fact they couldn't care less about anyone but themselves?

I think you're not asking the bigger question, why should you potentially suffer a loss of employment for the good of those already on deaths doorstep?

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Just seen something that might bring a little relief into the face coverings discussion.
The ideal Christmas gift for everyone in your bubble

iSphere

The Coronavirus is changing our relation to each other and affecting our perception of reality. This virus is very democratic: it spreads over the borders, has…

vimeo.com

 

[kez19]

Just seen something that might bring a little relief into the face coverings discussion.
The ideal Christmas gift for everyone in your bubble

iSphere

The Coronavirus is changing our relation to each other and affecting our perception of reality. This virus is very democratic: it spreads over the borders, has…

vimeo.com

View attachment 83697

Could be used for going into space or for keeping goldfish in!

 

[peteb]

At WOF awaiting 1426 to Stratford. Hardly anyone wearing masks on platform, estimate 4 out of 20 mask wearing. Why???

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Sep 2020 ==

At WOF awaiting 1426 to Stratford. Hardly anyone wearing masks on platform, estimate 4 out of 20 mask wearing. Why???

I usually get on at Kidderminster, just folks wear masks on platform there.