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Tyne & Wear Metro: Fleet Refurbishment List

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ModernRailways

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Looks to me like it was intentional. A coupling fault may have occurred which meant they units needed to be separated so they could run safely.

As a side note, 4022 is on it's holidays somewhere down south (Bristol I think). Hopefully getting it's articulated section repaired after the derailment.
 

ModernRailways

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Has anyone else seen this article? It doesn't surprise me in the slightest with this Government, but a new fleet is desperately needed so I can only imagine it's the Chronicle being a little flexible with their reporting. The article is below for those who don't want to go through to the PC crushing Chronicle site.


ChronicleLive said:
Ministers have refused to promise funding for the £435million needed for a new fleet of trains for the creaking Tyne and Wear Metro.

Transport Secretary Chris Grayling says the Government is “looking very carefully” at proposals, but could not set a date for a decision, when challenged in the House of Commons.

It comes after North East transport body Nexus submitted proposals to the Department for Transport for a new fleet of trains to replace the 40-year-old vehicles used at the moment.

Gateshead MP Ian Mearns highlighted the need to replace the trains, telling MPs that Tyne and Wear commuters “are affected daily” by failing trains, adding: “That is largely due to the fact that the Metro is well past the 35 years for which it was designed.”

Delays have become a regular experience for frustrated passengers using the system, with trains often having to be withdrawn from service.

Earlier this week fed-up commuters were told peak services would be disrupted due to a lack of trains in the ageing fleet.

Last month bewildered commuters were booted off a Newcastle-bound train at Hebburn after the windscreen wipers broke.

And earlier this year a fault with door mechanisms led to several trains being removed from service at rush hour.

Delays have become a regular experience for frustrated passengers using the system, with trains often having to be withdrawn from service.

Earlier this week fed-up commuters were told peak services would be disrupted due to a lack of trains in the ageing fleet.

Last month bewildered commuters were booted off a Newcastle-bound train at Hebburn after the windscreen wipers broke.

And earlier this year a fault with door mechanisms led to several trains being removed from service at rush hour.

He added: “My Department is looking very carefully at what the best options are. I understand the need to make changes, so that the Metro can carry on serving people in the way it has in the past.”

But the delay in making a decision was criticised by Newcastle Central MP Chi Onwurah, who told Ministers: “We have had many flowery words from the Government about understanding the experience of our constituents in the North East who are forced to use crumbling rolling stock on Tyne and Wear Metro, but flowery words will not get our constituents to work on time unless they are matched by investment.”

Nexus has been in talks with the Department for Transport’s Board Investment and Commercial Committee (BICC) with details of proposals to invest in a new fleet of Metro vehicles.

While BICC will need to approve plans for funding, Government Ministers will then make a final decision.

A Nexus spokesman said: “Nexus has been working for several years to secure funding for a new train fleet. The current fleet is almost 40 years old and its reliability is an increasing problem, causing trains to fail in service too often.

“A new fleet for the decades ahead will require external funding because of the significant cost involved, around £435 million.

“Nexus put in a detailed business case to the Department for Transport at the end of last year and has been in talks with civil servants since; while there is agreement that Metro needs investment for new trains we are yet to agree a funding model.”

The proposed fleet is due to have air conditioning, CCTV facilities to approve security and WiFi available for passengers.

There will also be an improved passenger information system.

The carriages are due to have “linear” seating, which means that seats are along the side of the carriage facing the centre.

A paper presented by Nexus to the North East Combined Authority warns that this could lead to trains having slightly fewer seats than existing models, but there will be room for more passengers in total, leading to less overcrowding. It’s also possible that the new trains will be sightly longer than existing vehicles, in which case the number of seats will not be cut.
 
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jkkne

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Can nexus justify the £350m they've spent on all change? That'd be the question I'd be asking, and secondly, why now? A lot of time has been wasted

The refurbishing at Central and North Shields, the latter in particular seemed overly expensive.
 

ModernRailways

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Can nexus justify the £350m they've spent on all change? That'd be the question I'd be asking, and secondly, why now? A lot of time has been wasted

The refurbishing at Central and North Shields, the latter in particular seemed overly expensive.

They haven't spent £350 million all change because some of the funding was cut back from the Government.

They've definitely wasted some of the money but it's a tiny percentage (5% of the full amount or so). Most of the All Change program has been needed. So track renewals, replacing old infrastructure, station refurbishments etc. All of which were needed since some of it hadn't been touched since the Tyneside Electrics, and in some cases earlier (excluding minor works and Metro preparation works - there's been no major modernisation).

One of the key issues right now is train reliability but it should start to increase again in the next few weeks - I say increase loosely, you never know what might just crop up.
 

MetroCar4058

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Can nexus justify the £350m they've spent on all change? That'd be the question I'd be asking, and secondly, why now? A lot of time has been wasted

The refurbishing at Central and North Shields, the latter in particular seemed overly expensive.

As ModernRailways highlights, there has been a lot of cuts to the funding for the Metro. All programmes have been needed and in most cases delivered to budget well.

Refurbishment of Central Station received quite a bit of external funding, was highly required and was delivered to budget, just. The funding was given to refurbish stations to create a transport system fit for the future. To keep passengers using your system it must have a certain level of aesthetic value, as well as being modernised at the 'back end' such as the fire safety systems.

Overall, of course the programme was justified. Otherwise the network would have been hampered by TSRs and frequent infrastructure faults. The money wasn't allocated for major rolling stock work, something that is noted mostly by passengers. Nexus has published the work they have done so far and it has been successful on the limited budget. You could argue that this programme is a few years too late and it must be supplemented by further investments which Nexus is bidding for.
 
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Tetchytyke

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Looks to me like it was intentional. A coupling fault may have occurred which meant they units needed to be separated so they could run safely.

That's what I thought, tbh.

As for All Change, most of the work has been unseen. A lot of track and embankment works, as much of the trackbed hadn't been touched since the 50s. Of the visible stuff, North Shields seemed to get a needlessly elaborate station (and the scallies still just climb over the back fence) but beyond that the station work hasn't been ridiculous. Central was on budget and the issues were more with unexpected work than anything else.

I do blame Nexus for the trains though. The new train order should have been dealt with when, instead, they were messing about with Project Orpheus. If they'd done it under a Labour government they'd have got the money. Now they probably won't; the Tories don't give money to towns who don't vote for them.
 

ModernRailways

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That's what I thought, tbh.

I'm back at work next week so I'm going to try and find out what happened, but if it was unintentional then the RAIB would have likely been made aware as it would have meant something very, very serious has gone wrong - if the carriages uncouple then the track brakes apply as a fail safe.

I do blame Nexus for the trains though. The new train order should have been dealt with when, instead, they were messing about with Project Orpheus. If they'd done it under a Labour government they'd have got the money. Now they probably won't; the Tories don't give money to towns who don't vote for them.

I'm torn on this. They were pushing for expansion similar to that of the MCR Metrolink, a lot of what they had proposed was using existing railway alignments that have been abandoned/mothballed. They definitely wasted a lot of money on it though, and new trains (read: trams - they still have a thing for trams) should have been asked for instead of a refurbishment. The refurbishment was a complete waste of money on the whole as it mainly just removing asbestos and then giving them a lick of paint. There was hardly any work beyond that done, especially on the last cars.

Any new trains will be done on the cheap because, as you say, we have a Tory Govt. who won't tend to care, and Brexit is causing some issues which will change how money is spent. I believe they are asking for ~£400 million for new trains/trams. Keeping in mind LUL spent ~£1.5 billion on 192 S7/S8 stock trains (938 S7 Carriages at around £1 billion, 464 S8 Carriages at around £500 million). With that in mind we should be getting some decent trains, but with this Govt. they'll probably be trying to make it cheaper. The Govt. have asked for the PTE councils to all pay for new stock but obviously they've laughed and basically said 'F off'.
 

Tetchytyke

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The original Metrocars are just glorified trams, they were marketed as "SuperTram" by Metro-Cammell (IIRC, before my time!).

I don't think replacing the fleet with trams, like on Metrolink, would be such a bad idea. They don't need to be trains, they just need to work.

My issue with the messing about is they didn't sort the stock out, they focused on the expansion. They did it the wrong way around. Order a fleet you can expand, like Metrolink did, then worry about the expansion itself. That, and they were focusing on an expansion at a time when the expansion they had managed, to South Hylton, was performing so badly that they decided that half the trains turned at Park Lane to save money.
 
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ModernRailways

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The original Metrocars are just glorified trams, they were marketed as "SuperTram" by Metro-Cammell (IIRC, before my time!).

I don't think replacing the fleet with trams, like on Metrolink, would be such a bad idea. They don't need to be trains, they just need to work.

My issue with the messing about is they didn't sort the stock out, they focused on the expansion. They did it the wrong way around. Order a fleet you can expand, like Metrolink did, then worry about the expansion itself. That, and they were focusing on an expansion at a time when the expansion they had managed, to South Hylton, was performing so badly that they decided that half the trains turned at Park Lane to save money.

Glorified trams maybe, however, they have the capacity/design of a railcar. Trams can't handle nearly as many passengers as a Metro can. I feel like Metro need two designs. One railcar design for current routes and routes that exclusively use heavy rail type infrastructure and another design for routes that will include on street running etc. I genuinely believe a one size fits all wouldn't work up here. We're aiming to have 60ft cars that are walk through, I know that much.



Also, as an aside, I asked a colleague about the coupling issue that occurred at Heworth and from what he told me it was completely unintentional. The train was out of service for a fault anyway but they uncoupled and the leading car's brakes never applied, whereas on the rear car they did - if the train's uncouple then the track brakes apply on both cars because the circuit has been broken. The driver drove on with no knowledge of what had happened because there was no indication. Keep in mind, this could all be exaggerated.
 

danielnez1

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Also, as an aside, I asked a colleague about the coupling issue that occurred at Heworth and from what he told me it was completely unintentional. The train was out of service for a fault anyway but they uncoupled and the leading car's brakes never applied, whereas on the rear car they did - if the train's uncouple then the track brakes apply on both cars because the circuit has been broken. The driver drove on with no knowledge of what had happened because there was no indication. Keep in mind, this could all be exaggerated.

If that did actually happen, could the front unit have cleared the proceeding signals?
 

Paul_10

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Also, as an aside, I asked a colleague about the coupling issue that occurred at Heworth and from what he told me it was completely unintentional. The train was out of service for a fault anyway but they uncoupled and the leading car's brakes never applied, whereas on the rear car they did - if the train's uncouple then the track brakes apply on both cars because the circuit has been broken. The driver drove on with no knowledge of what had happened because there was no indication. Keep in mind, this could all be exaggerated.

May make sence given where the rear car stopped but what i struggle to make sence of is how come there was a spare driver around to drive the train away? Or maybe the driver of the train finally got a message through and had to walk back to Heworth to rescue the stranded set?

Its one of those where you wish you were there too actually see what happened though for the sake of clarity.
 

MetroCar4058

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May make sence given where the rear car stopped but what i struggle to make sence of is how come there was a spare driver around to drive the train away? Or maybe the driver of the train finally got a message through and had to walk back to Heworth to rescue the stranded set?

Its one of those where you wish you were there too actually see what happened though for the sake of clarity.

There are always spare drivers on duty, one was probably dispatched from SGF to recover the set, hence the delays that day.

If that did actually happen, could the front unit have cleared the proceeding signals?

No, a train in a block is a train in a block, regardless if it is a 2 car unit or a stranded car. Safety of trains in service would not have been compromised.
 

ModernRailways

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If that did actually happen, could the front unit have cleared the proceeding signals?

Yes, the trains following would have been held at red aspects as the car was still occupying the section but the leading car with the driver could drive on for as long as they had aspects showing a proceed status.

I'm not entirely sure how it was collected, but as it was the tail end of the peak a pelaw short train might have rescued it.
 

tez thorn

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Anyone got any pictures of the re paint of 4001/2 that ive seen mentioned

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ModernRailways

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Anyone got any pictures of the re paint of 4001/2 that ive seen mentioned

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It's just the same as the rest of the refurbs. There's no decent photos as neither have been in passenger service, however they're currently stabled outside so someone could probably get a photo through the fence if they wanted. Or you could always ask the social media team they might be able to grab one for you if you ask nicely :lol:
 

Paul_10

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Anyone got any pictures of the re paint of 4001/2 that ive seen mentioned

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There is one decent photo of 4001 at the depot taken a few good months ago by a person who I assume was part of a private group visiting the depot as his album contains a good numbers of photos all taken at the depot.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/39670739@N05/33822189053/in/album-72157683768782425/

4022 is also within the photos and one must assume if there was damage to the articulated section then its on the side we don't see. Be interesting too see how long it will be down Bristol for, surprised the repairs can't be done at Gosforth.
 

HA25322

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Is there a current list of serviceable units? I am up in the area in a couple of weeks and even though I am aware of the engineering works, I am hoping to get some of my last units.
I understand that 4002 is out of traffic, but any help with 4011, 4016, 4018, 4024, 4025, 4028, 4042, 4045, 4057, 4059, 4072, 4083 & 4084?
And btw even though these may not be useful for quite a while, please find details of the updated diagrams.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/tyne_and_wear_metro_current_work#outgoing-665752

Regards
 

Tramfan

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Of the units you've listed, only 4016 has been missing for a while, 4083 hasn't been out for a few days, but all the others have been out and about. Not sure how many units are going to be required during the engineering works though. They're running extras around the Coast during AM/PM peaks, so this would be the best time.
 

Kite159

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Is there a current list of serviceable units? I am up in the area in a couple of weeks and even though I am aware of the engineering works, I am hoping to get some of my last units.
I understand that 4002 is out of traffic, but any help with 4011, 4016, 4018, 4024, 4025, 4028, 4042, 4045, 4057, 4059, 4072, 4083 & 4084?
And btw even though these may not be useful for quite a while, please find details of the updated diagrams.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/tyne_and_wear_metro_current_work#outgoing-665752

Regards

4011, 4059, 4072, 4083 & 4084 were all out in service on the 21st July when I had a good unit hunting session (left with just 3, long term out of traffic 4002 plus 4018 & 4043)
 

tez thorn

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4011, 4059, 4072, 4083 & 4084 were all out in service on the 21st July when I had a good unit hunting session (left with just 3, long term out of traffic 4002 plus 4018 & 4043)
4028 has been out too,i saw it on Friday coupled to 4085

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HA25322

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Many thanks for the replies as it is very much appreciated. I shall advise what I manage to get on my return in a couple of weeks.
Regards
 

jkkne

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The first day of the major line closure seemed well handled. Delays to services along Benton Park Rd, they seemed to be plugging gaps with buses sitting at Four Lane Ends ready to step in.

Train wise, the information boards at South Gosforth were showing trains every 20 minutes. It appears they can't recognise trains turning back towards Shields. Station staff and waiting drivers were proactively telling customers to ignore and that trains were running at regular frequencies.

It was all rather...good. Which was unexpected!!
 

MetroCar4058

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Does anyone know whether any stock is being stabled away from the depot due to the major line closure? I believe I saw one unit in the sidings at Regent Centre a few days back which had been tagged (big style) which made me think some may be away from the relative safety of the depot.
 

danielnez1

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I have a bit of a odd question: on the approach to St. James Platform 2, just before you enter the platform, the tunnel seems to widen out and looks like it could have accommodated an extra track. Was this originally intended for an extra platform or siding?
 

HA25322

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So today I was finally able to pop up to Newcastle in order to try to have a ride on my required 14 units.
I obviously realise that there is the major engineering works on going so I was not sure how many turns were out. So going by the turns previously mentioned this is what I have seen.
101 - 4038/64
102 - 4067/31
103 - 4049/11
104 - 4053/75
105 - 4060/42
106 - 4030/73
107 - 4012/84
108 - 4037/08
109 - 4058/63 these failed and were replaced by 4033/21
110 - 4074/65
111 - 4079/13
112 - 4010/68

121 - 4090/61
122 - 4027/26
123 - 4089/87
124 - 4029/35 who failed and were replaced by 4004/57
125 - 4086/28
126 - 4072/41
127 - 4059/70
128 - 4077/17

129 - not running
130 - not running
The following were running on the St James - Four Lane Ends only.
131 - 4088/81
132 - 4034/19
133 - 4025/78
134 - 4003/07
135 - 4048/76
Extras
136 - 4009/62
137 - 4050/71
138 - 4024/36

140 - 145 not seen as not in Newcastle early enough.
150 - 159 also did not run. However the following did run from South Gosforth - Pelaw.
146 - 4082/66
147 - 4040/83
148 - 4035/29
149 - 4054/39.

So quite different from the original diagrams but I still managed to get 10 of the units I required so I was pleased with that.
Just 4002, 4016, 4018 & 4045 still to get.

I hope this may help some for anyone out there.
Regards.



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142094

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I have a bit of a odd question: on the approach to St. James Platform 2, just before you enter the platform, the tunnel seems to widen out and looks like it could have accommodated an extra track. Was this originally intended for an extra platform or siding?

Only planned for 2 platforms. The extra space is used to accomodate staff toilets, water pumps and the escalator voids on both platforms.

In answer to a previous question all trains are returning to the depot during the blockade apart from two which stable overnight at St James. The one that was tagged was done in Regent Centre sidings
 

142094

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If that did actually happen, could the front unit have cleared the proceeding signals?

It is a rare occurrence under a specific set of circumstances, and has happened in the past. However as has been said, both cars will occupy a track circuit block which will show up on the signalling mimic board, and no trains in front or behind will be affected.

The working instruction regarding moving a failed train which has to have equipment isolated to allow it to move has been changed so that an incident like this shouldn't happen again.
 
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