Tyne & Wear Metro: Fleet Refurbishment List

[ModernRailways]

that doesn't seem to make sense.

They make lots of decisions that make no sense. I'm sure they just do it for the giggles at times.

 

[MetroCar4058]

They make lots of decisions that make no sense. I'm sure they just do it for the giggles at times.

I think a lot of the decision made are not for giggles; they don't have a job with a decent PTEs such as TFL for a reason Metro has been extraordinarily poor of late. The issue is not DBs fault nor the Govs, but Nexus for messing around with horrific business cases since 2000. How can you expect investment from the DfT if your plans are changing every other year?
I must say though, it does look like they've been investing some hard cash into the rolling stock, lots of equipment that appears 'new' on the underside of many units.

I don't see why Nexus didn't kill off more RGC trains and run more Monseaton ones? The trains to Regent are always empty and are a pain for the Airport trains, delaying them significantly in some cases. Not so long ago my train was 15 minutes behind time due to a late running peak and general chaos on the congested central belt. It really shouldn't be about that 3 minute frequency, it should be about a good spread of services meeting peak demand.

Its about time Nexus really pulled themselves together and got back to the 70s passion and innovation that brought the Metro to fruition.

 

[Tramfan]

I don't see why Nexus didn't kill off more RGC trains and run more Monseaton ones? The trains to Regent are always empty and are a pain for the Airport trains, delaying them significantly in some cases.

I've noticed that as well, particularly as there's a period in the evening peak where 3 trains terminate at Regent Centre within 12 mins (1701, 1707 and 1713) as well an Airport train passing at 1704. I've seen it a couple of times where the 1701 arrival is 6 mins late, with the 1707 2 minutes behind. In this case they sometimes send the late one back to Pelaw from Regent Centre platform 2 without it using the siding, but this still ends up holding up the Airport/South Hylton ones.

I'm relieved I don't need to use the Monkseaton/Coast trains as I'll gladly let them pass for a Regent Centre starter/terminator as I know how packed they can get even if all peak trains are out.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Metro hasn't recovered from nexus wasting all that time and money on Project Orpheus, which was always a complete non-starter. If they'd sorted something realistic then, rather than Willy-waving about trams here, there and everywhere, Metro would already have the new stock it needs.

 

[MetroCar4058]

With the North Tyneside plan now being published and past consultation, meaning that thousands of new homes may lie along the already buckling north loop by 2032, is it still 'clever' of Nexus to only want 82 new units? It really does seem short sighted with the ever growing number of homes aligned with the Metro, such as the massive new developments at Bank Foot & the aforementioned near Monkseaton. Also, we must be lacking around 20 trains recently due to cancellation of the peaks?

These are great opportunities for Nexus to push for free cash from developers as part of the development rights. As Arctic Troll highlighted a while ago, hopefully they won't miss out like they did with Eldon Square.

Perhaps the mooted speed increase to 100kmh will be needed to keep the Metros competitiveness against express bus services.

 

[142094]

Talking of peak trains being cancelled, does a service suspension between Monkseaton and North Shields really justify cancelling ALL peak services this afternoon!?

Train which failed at Tynemouth had a seized gearbox, so unable to drive it away or get an assisting train to help. Had to be jacked up and put on wheel skates, which meant an overhead isolation. In addition, it failed in a bad place seeing as Tynemouth has points which allow turnbacks, which meant service had to be suspended between North Shields and Monkseaton.

Part of the problem when there is disruption is the fact that drivers are displaced. Under the current roster there are 70 duties (used to be 72 until the timetable changed), not including early and late standby, and any spare drivers. As the roster is fixed, there is no room for changes unless you have a decent number of spare drivers or drivers who are willing to work beyond their day (which again can bring problems for duties the next day due to the need for 12 hours rest in between shifts).

For this disruption it meant that some drivers were having to be based at Monument to work St. James - North Shields, which means additional travelling time from the signing on point at South Gosforth. Plus with trains turning back at Monkseaton, it means the timetable goes to pot on the Coast route. The easiest way to 'create' extra drivers is to cancel the shorts and put those drivers onto normal service trains, but this again has problems as most of the duties which contain short workings finish by about 6/7pm. Only other way to get drivers in is ask at short notice, which will normally only mean one or two extra drivers.

So in short, there is very little leeway in the diagrams. A delay of 6 minutes to one driver can mean that he/she is unable to pick up the next part of their duty. So when there is a large disruption, it is chaotic.

 

[142094]

Yes, it frequently is, as that's the train I get home. That explains why, though, even if it doesn't make elbowing on to the 1712 any nicer.

I've seen a few occasions where it has run...and diverted to Regent Centre instead. Given the north half of the Coast loop is one of the busiest parts of the network, with the big car parks at FLE and Northumberland Park, that doesn't seem to make sense.

155 has the shortest mileage, being only a Depot - Pelaw - Monkseaton - empty to Depot working. Of course this means if there is a lack of trains in the afternoon it is the first to be cut. However, seeing as Nexus design the timetable, it is their fault that 155 is a peak train to Monkseaton (and covering more stations than a Pelaw - Regent Centre train).

 

[142094]

I must say though, it does look like they've been investing some hard cash into the rolling stock, lots of equipment that appears 'new' on the underside of many units.

Very little on the underside is new. Only new things you'll probably notice are wheelsets, which need to be changed on a regular basis. Anything else will have been overhauled as per the usual mileage-based servicing and probably has had a clean (e.g. gearboxes).

The only changes that I know that have happened to the underside was the removal of components containing asbestos and also changing the batteries. Unfortunately just about everything else is still the same as before the 3/4 life refurb, which explains why a lot of trains are failing each day.

 

[bramling]

Train which failed at Tynemouth had a seized gearbox, so unable to drive it away or get an assisting train to help. Had to be jacked up and put on wheel skates, which meant an overhead isolation. In addition, it failed in a bad place seeing as Tynemouth has points which allow turnbacks, which meant service had to be suspended between North Shields and Monkseaton.

Part of the problem when there is disruption is the fact that drivers are displaced. Under the current roster there are 70 duties (used to be 72 until the timetable changed), not including early and late standby, and any spare drivers. As the roster is fixed, there is no room for changes unless you have a decent number of spare drivers or drivers who are willing to work beyond their day (which again can bring problems for duties the next day due to the need for 12 hours rest in between shifts).

For this disruption it meant that some drivers were having to be based at Monument to work St. James - North Shields, which means additional travelling time from the signing on point at South Gosforth. Plus with trains turning back at Monkseaton, it means the timetable goes to pot on the Coast route. The easiest way to 'create' extra drivers is to cancel the shorts and put those drivers onto normal service trains, but this again has problems as most of the duties which contain short workings finish by about 6/7pm. Only other way to get drivers in is ask at short notice, which will normally only mean one or two extra drivers.

So in short, there is very little leeway in the diagrams. A delay of 6 minutes to one driver can mean that he/she is unable to pick up the next part of their duty. So when there is a large disruption, it is chaotic.

Are there any booked spare turns? (In theory and in reality?!).

I have two weeks in Newcastle at the beginning of July. I was lucky enough to catch 4001/4040 last year. What's the likelihood of the other two unrefurbished metro cars being in service this summer?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Perhaps the mooted speed increase to 100kmh will be needed to keep the Metros competitiveness against express bus services.

Nah, the hideous traffic congestion in Newcastle city centre will do that much. Express buses into town don't work because of the traffic situation.

Of course Newcastle City Council have made it worse- whoever re-designed the efficient one-way system around Neville Street/Central Station, and turned it into a car park every night, needs a smack- but there are hotspots you can't get around.

If the express bus doesn't get stuck in traffic in Gosforth or South Gosforth it'll be Shieldfield or Neville Street.

 

[142094]

Are there any booked spare turns? (In theory and in reality?!).

I have two weeks in Newcastle at the beginning of July. I was lucky enough to catch 4001/4040 last year. What's the likelihood of the other two unrefurbished metro cars being in service this summer?

Can't remember off the top of my head the exact figures but there are early and late spare weeks on the roster, plus also random single spare duties. This is in addition to one early and one late standby. However the vast majority of spare weeks get filled either to cover sickness or holidays, so some days there may be very few if no drivers sitting without a turn to cover.

If you are visiting during the week, there will be a very good chance 4040 and 4083 are out as there are no spare sets at the minute and every available car is needed for service. 4001/02 unlikely to be out.

 

[bramling]

If you are visiting during the week, there will be a very good chance 4040 and 4083 are out as there are no spare sets at the minute and every available car is needed for service. 4001/02 unlikely to be out.

Thanks for that. Looks like I was lucky to get 4001 last year, but will keep fingers crossed for at least 4083!

 

[MetroCar4058]

Appears to be quite a few trains running around with minor faults, namely door sets OOS. Signs that they are struggling to keep up in the depot?

I'm keenly awaiting the last months performance data.

 

[142094]

Doors fail all the time, nothing new. Normally worse in the summer due to the heat.

 

[Paul_10]

Doors fail all the time, nothing new. Normally worse in the summer due to the heat.

How does the heat affect the doors reliability? An odd one in my eyes but i did hear many years ago, the doors on the prototypes used to be vulnable of "sticking" in wet weather, no idea if there is actually any truth in that or not.

Talking of the prototypes, apparently 4001 and 4002 has been out on the system on test runs, any truth in that? Also did 4055 derail in the depot as reported on here? Did not see that unit when i was last up in the region

 

[142094]

There are a lot of grease lubricated parts in the top of the doors which seem to be more of an issue during the heat.

Haven't seen 4001/02 move off the depot yet. One of them is being prepared to test the new radio system but there have been some technical problems which means that they cannot run just yet.

There were a couple of minor derailments recently (not including 4022) but not sure which one was 4055.

 

[MetroCar4058]

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/tyne-wear-metro-return-public-13214178

Thoughts? I am surprised that the punctuality stats are close to the 90s; have they changed the way they monitor them?

 

[ModernRailways]

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/tyne-wear-metro-return-public-13214178

Thoughts? I am surprised that the punctuality stats are close to the 90s; have they changed the way they monitor them?

No, and that article just speaks volumes for the Chronicles love for Metro being public (the only comment on the article (by 'JustTheFacts' hints at similar). If you look at the facts, DB had increased performance highly themselves prior to handing over, Nexus have managed to keep it around the same spot DB left it at.

Also, if you look at previous figures we are now sitting around 84%, this is the same as last year around October. Nexus have been sitting at ~85% since taking back the system, the first performance chart from them was 90% but that then went back to ~85%

DB left the system on an upward trend, with figures of ~88% (87.23%, then increased to 88.42% (the 88.42% is up to the 1st April too, so is DB's last figures)) after the timetable change. Nexus then got it to 89.36% but it's now back at 85%.

I fear they'll continue with the steady decline again. I've seen no improvements, and trains with faults are becoming more and more common.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Thoughts?

Other than that the Chronic isn't fit to be hung on a nail in the outhouse?

Nexus hacked away at the peak timetable and they still can't run the service to timetable. I'm amazed punctuality is as high as that, my experience is that it isn't. Well, to be more exact, the trains that run seem to be punctual, it's that they cancel so many of the peak trains to manage it.

Nexus has whacked out huge chunks of the timetable, massively cut the PVR, and punctuality hasn't improved. That's pathetic. I wouldn't be crowing about "success" if that's what I'd managed, but then Newcastle City Council politicians have always has a tenuous grasp on reality.

Nexus seem to be hoping that if they announce "good service, running to timetable, no reported issues" regardless of how many peak trains are cancelled, nobody will notice.

 

[theblackwatch]

Did anyone ever work out why 4040 was chosen as the fourth set not to be refurbished? 4001/4002 were obviously chosen due to being prototypes, while 4083, as mentioned earlier in this thread, was involved in an accident which took integrated transport to a new level.

Apologies if I've missed the answer somewhere in this thread!

 

[Paul_10]

Did anyone ever work out why 4040 was chosen as the fourth set not to be refurbished? 4001/4002 were obviously chosen due to being prototypes, while 4083, as mentioned earlier in this thread, was involved in an accident which took integrated transport to a new level.

Apologies if I've missed the answer somewhere in this thread!

The accident has nothing to do with 4083 not recieving a 2nd refurbishment as it has recieved a first refurbishment since that photo which involved the front ends being rebuilt. The only reason i can think of 4040/4083 not recieving a refurbishment(apart from the cost issue) is that they both recieved an Emirates livery and it makes more sence the other 2 units not to get refurbished would be units that carried an advert livery than the old fleet livery.

The intention was for ALL 90 Units to be refurbished, including the prototypes, but the cost went way overboard because of corrosion being worse than anticipated.

As for the performance figures, then its good things have not went downhill again and it should really be the case that the vast majority of passengers should 9 times out of 10 have a smooth uneventful journey but at one poimt during DB's reign performance went so bad that evwn people without social media probably noticed how bad the service was and that is what people will remember about DB Regio.

 

[MetroCar4058]

I've noticed that Nexus have stated that Monkseaton trains will be cancelled for the foreseeable future, citing a particularly poor component. Does anyone know much about the current major headaches for maintenance?

It's really concerning that ~30 units are out of service. The major line closure has came at just the right time.

 

[ModernRailways]

I've noticed that Nexus have stated that Monkseaton trains will be cancelled for the foreseeable future, citing a particularly poor component. Does anyone know much about the current major headaches for maintenance?

It's really concerning that ~30 units are out of service. The major line closure has came at just the right time.

FWIK, it's to do with the coupling system and the reason there's so many out of service is because the parts need to be manufactured as they can't just be bought off the shelf anymore. This will only become more and more common as the stock gets older, failure rates increase and more of the parts become obsolescent.

They could only ride the high for so long though. Service has been doing too well for the past couple of months

 

[lgb2100]

I've noticed that Nexus have stated that Monkseaton trains will be cancelled for the foreseeable future, citing a particularly poor component. Does anyone know much about the current major headaches for maintenance?

It's really concerning that ~30 units are out of service. The major line closure has came at just the right time.

Is it really 30 units out of service ? reading the posts, it suggests that there are only 90 units - meaning that a third are out of use.

Metro had eight trains out of use yesterday, I assume this means 16 units. Where are the other 14 units ?

 

[MetroCar4058]

FWIK, it's to do with the coupling system and the reason there's so many out of service is because the parts need to be manufactured as they can't just be bought off the shelf anymore. This will only become more and more common as the stock gets older, failure rates increase and more of the parts become obsolescent.

They could only ride the high for so long though. Service has been doing too well for the past couple of months

Thank you! Seems a rather unusual 'common' fault! Availability and faults are at an unusual low and high respectively.

Is it really 30 units out of service ? reading the posts, it suggests that there are only 90 units - meaning that a third are out of use.

Metro had eight trains out of use yesterday, I assume this means 16 units. Where are the other 14 units ?

There must be. Metro has 90 units, 20 'spare' during the peak service, (this used to be 12) I can't remember but its around 4-6 out for heavy at a given time. (others will be able to clarify the exact numbers)

6 services cancelled at peak yesterday means 12 trains out of service, thus a number of around 30.

As Metro have admitted and ModernRailways highlights, old stock and obsolete parts makes running the service hard.

 

[ModernRailways]

Is it really 30 units out of service ? reading the posts, it suggests that there are only 90 units - meaning that a third are out of use.

Metro had eight trains out of use yesterday, I assume this means 16 units. Where are the other 14 units ?

It's more 20 units. You have 4001 and 4002 which are out of service. There was 2 out of service due to faults (I'm on holiday at the minute so not sure of the current levels), then you have the usual trains in for regular maintenance/exams.

Metro has 90 metrocars, so 45 sets for service if every single car was available.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Anything to do with an (alleged) separation between two out of service Metrocars at Heworth?

 

[jkkne]

Anything to do with an (alleged) separation between two out of service Metrocars at Heworth?

Looking at the Sort Out The Metro group and photos of said alleged incident...probably

 

[ModernRailways]

Anything to do with an (alleged) separation between two out of service Metrocars at Heworth?

I've heard nothing about this - any images? If they separated unintentionally then it would need reporting to the RAIB.

Looking at the Sort Out The Metro group and photos of said alleged incident...probably

Could you reshare the photos here or direct link them please?

 

[MetroCar4058]

I've heard nothing about this - any images? If they separated unintentionally then it would need reporting to the RAIB.



Could you reshare the photos here or direct link them please?

This is the image https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=cb0684a908d141a492668e20799c3030&oe=5A03C139