Tyne & Wear Metro: Fleet Refurbishment List

[Tetchytyke]

Northumberland Park has the black and white scheme...sort of. It's looking a right state, most of the steelwork is rusting with all the paintwork flaked off.

I can't imagine Monument will be facelifted until they do the full refurb. Truthfully, they missed a trick by not getting Intu to pay for it as part of the planning application for the revamped mall.

 

[MetroCar4058]

I thought South Shields will be a totally seperate project with funding also coming from outside souces to move the station and completely re-build a new station along with a new bus station? That said, would it surprise me if those ambitions plans did not happen, I won't be and for me, will all the disruption and chaos be worth it, probably not.

Indeed it is. The project is most likely going to happen and permission has been given. For me this is a great way of getting people back into public transport, the general infrastructure around South Shields regarding PT is dire and in need of a refresh.

Planning applications for the Transport interchange was approved by South Tyneside Council’s Planning Committee in November 2015 and work is expected to begin in 2017.

It is part of the South Shields 365 regeneration programme. http://www.southshields365progress.com/

As for stations like Heworth and Tyne Dock, I imagine it will be more of a refresh than anything else although its interesting all station "refurbishments" have stopped for months now.

There were plans for refurbishments of both stations, interestingly the time period that NECA had put in documents was long ago. Probably linked to the cut in the All Change programme.

I'm sure none of the stations between Longbenton and Tynemouth has recieved the black and white colour scheme for example.

I think some of our old BR stations are protected? So there may be little willing to bring these stations up to the current look.

Northumberland Park has the black and white scheme...sort of. It's looking a right state, most of the steelwork is rusting with all the paintwork flaked off.

The paint peeling appears to be a common issue across the network. I cannot understand why Nexus wasted so much money on the line between Chillingham Road - North Shields at the expense of the rest of the system. Stations such as Percy Main did not require the fancy panels. I wonder if they will ever finish the refurb at Gateshead Stadium, or will the red panels with the Metro logo live on forever

I can't imagine Monument will be facelifted until they do the full refurb.

Apologies, I did mean a total refurb, not a facelift like the peripheral stations.

 

[142094]

EDIT: 4077 and 4022 are the replacement for the failed 111 in Pelaw Sidings, anyone know which two Metrocars it is as its too dark to see?
Sent from my Bush Spira B2 5 Smartphone using Tapatalk

4004 taken out of service at Sunderland due to suspected dragging brakes. Fitters attended to wind brakes off at Pelaw refuge.

 

[leyscjd]

Interesting to see what I think was 4001 & 4083 topping and tailing the RHTT today!

 

[MetroCar4058]

4055 has dreadful flats!

 

[ModernRailways]

Interesting to see what I think was 4001 & 4083 topping and tailing the RHTT today!

Yeah, it's easier to have them on the RHTT.

4055 has dreadful flats!

A lot of cars will be. Last week I've a feeling the driver was relatively new as they almost overrun at Fawdon - went into Emergency and just stopped in time. He came across apologising for the harsh braking. Then at Ilford Road he completely missed, apologised, advised people to cross back over. Trundled into West Jesmond, then he tried applying full power. We got nowhere and the carriage just stunk of burning again, took two attempts to leave West Jesmond I imagine even some of the more experienced drivers will be having some trouble at times as on almost every train they've struggled to get out of West Jesmond even on low power.

 

[MetroCar4058]

A lot of cars will be. Last week I've a feeling the driver was relatively new as they almost overrun at Fawdon - went into Emergency and just stopped in time. He came across apologising for the harsh braking. Then at Ilford Road he completely missed, apologised, advised people to cross back over. Trundled into West Jesmond, then he tried applying full power. We got nowhere and the carriage just stunk of burning again, took two attempts to leave West Jesmond I imagine even some of the more experienced drivers will be having some trouble at times as on almost every train they've struggled to get out of West Jesmond even on low power.

Is that good old time of year again! The friction was dire out of Wansbeck Road and Regent this evening. Evidently the RHTT needs more outings; surely it would save money on all of the damage to the rail and train equipment. Does Airport - Wansbeck Road even get a visit from the treatment train? Interestingly, the contamination of the rail head at Kingston Park level crossing seems to be limited.

I'm no expert at driving Metros either, but you can tell a new driver from an experience one at this time of year; although I've not had the fun of magnetic just yet! Shoutout to the driver of 105 (I think? 4014 in the lead) who was excellent this evening at around 1950.

 

[Scott M]

A lot of cars will be. Last week I've a feeling the driver was relatively new as they almost overrun at Fawdon - went into Emergency and just stopped in time. He came across apologising for the harsh braking. Then at Ilford Road he completely missed, apologised, advised people to cross back over. Trundled into West Jesmond, then he tried applying full power. We got nowhere and the carriage just stunk of burning again, took two attempts to leave West Jesmond I imagine even some of the more experienced drivers will be having some trouble at times as on almost every train they've struggled to get out of West Jesmond even on low power.

Tbf to him there is a ton of wheel slip going on at the moment. Come to expect emergency braking at least once per journey between Hebburn and Tyne dock, and quite commonly at Gateshead stadium. Always cringe when drivers perservere with full power when the train is clearly getting nowhere though - feel like even I know that can cause flats aha. But they are the driver, not me, so I am sure they have their reasons!

 

[MetroCar4058]

They're fighting a loosing battle if we're honest, so there is no point really blaming anyone. Even though many twitter and FB users think that LRH is a Metro only problem which has only just started in recent years, conveniently in line with the development of social media

Out of curiously, what is the capacity of the treatment train before it needs a refill? Also can it utilise the Manors curve?

 

[Tramfan]

4055 has dreadful flats!

I caught that one back from work today, was terminated at Regent Centre instead of Airport on its last full trip working on 106 due to late running after a medical emergency earlier, certainly one of the worst flats around at the moment.

Also had a train go into emergency braking coming into Longbenton the other, but even that seemed to make very little difference to the level of braking.
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Yeah, it's easier to have them on the RHTT.

I noted 4001 shunting 4077 around the depot today whilst also coupled to 4052. Was odd seeing 4001 sandwiched between 2 refurbs as a 3 car set!

 

[Scott M]

They're fighting a loosing battle if we're honest, so there is no point really blaming anyone. Even though many twitter and FB users think that LRH is a Metro only problem which has only just started in recent years, conveniently in line with the development of social media

Out of curiously, what is the capacity of the treatment train before it needs a refill? Also can it utilise the Manors curve?

Totally agree! Be more transparent = Get more grief. Wonder why they bother sometimes!

I got told off today for having forgot to tap in with my pop card. Why can they not just adjust season tickets to allow you to tap out without having previously tapped in?

Also I have noticed that S.Shields to Newcastle seems to be getting quite busy in the mornings now, often seem to be leaving passengers behind from Bede onwards! Makes me wonder if we could see a day where the passenger demand exceeds metro's capacity.

 

[MetroCar4058]

I got told off today for having forgot to tap in with my pop card. Why can they not just adjust season tickets to allow you to tap out without having previously tapped in?

I doubt it, they want to use the data to analyse the statistics; although I'm unsure if that really happens yet. Most staff are alright if you forget though :P

Also I have noticed that S.Shields to Newcastle seems to be getting quite busy in the mornings now, often seem to be leaving passengers behind from Bede onwards! Makes me wonder if we could see a day where the passenger demand exceeds metro's capacity.

I'd hope not, the line doesn't have enough capacity for many more services. Patronage is much lower this year due to Metros woeful, yet undeserved reputation, so, it is hopefully unlikely.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Totally agree! Be more transparent = Get more grief. Wonder why they bother sometimes!

I think people get frustrated because it's the same issue every year, but they don't seem to do a great deal about it. One of the worst areas for low rail adhesion is between Palmersville and Longbenton, because of all the trees overhanging the line, especially around Benton. But there's never any work done on clearing lineside vegetation, so every year we get the same issue from the same trees.

I got told off today for having forgot to tap in with my pop card. Why can they not just adjust season tickets to allow you to tap out without having previously tapped in?

The reason Nexus gave to me was revenue protection. They don't want people to be able to touch out without touching in because it would then be a lot easier to short-fare. I can kinda see their point, annoying as it is when you forget to touch in or when the validators are broken.

Makes me wonder if we could see a day where the passenger demand exceeds metro's capacity.

That day is pretty much upon us in North Tyneside, I can say that much. The trains are normally wedged even as far out as Northumberland Park and Shiremoor, and there are two huge new housing developments being built at Northumberland Park/Holystone and a third at West Monkseaton. I'm dreading the run up to Christmas.

 

[MetroCar4058]

I think Metro is in a bit of a sticky situation regarding capacity, the morning rush I find is allot more concentrated than the evening, and as you say capacity is limited. I must admit I have little experience of this and didn't really know it was a major issue as I use the Green Line and don't hit the central belt in the morning. But the point I will make is that during the day and at the evening, the service doesn't really warrant every diagram being two sets; maybe people who use the service more frequently during the day and evening have a better perspective, but maybe a 2,1,1,2,2 frequency could be operated per hour, by doing this at least 1 diagram can be took out of service for a few hours and another split at the terminus. Obviously there are both advantages and disadvantages regarding this but Nexus mustn't see it to meet capacity or be viable. It doesn't help that the B end doesn't have all of the equipment.

 

[ModernRailways]

I think Metro is in a bit of a sticky situation regarding capacity, the morning rush I find is allot more concentrated than the evening, and as you say capacity is limited. I must admit I have little experience of this and didn't really know it was a major issue as I use the Green Line and don't hit the central belt in the morning. But the point I will make is that during the day and at the evening, the service doesn't really warrant every diagram being two sets; maybe people who use the service more frequently during the day and evening have a better perspective, but maybe a 2,1,1,2,2 frequency could be operated per hour, by doing this at least 1 diagram can be took out of service for a few hours and another split at the terminus. Obviously there are both advantages and disadvantages regarding this but Nexus mustn't see it to meet capacity or be viable. It doesn't help that the B end doesn't have all of the equipment.

With the failure rate of trains it's better to have 2 cars on at all times. If 1 car fails the one that it's coupled to can potentially cause a lot less of a headache by moving and getting the train out of the way.


With regards to peaks. Trains are busier in the AM because, as you say, the amount of people travelling is a lot more closer together. In the Evenings people are more spread out, some may go grab food after work, some may go to the bar/pub etc. There's also the fact that people will finish work at alternate times but a lot will start at 8/9am.

 

[Tetchytyke]

With another 10% on season tickets to The Coast, to fund discounts for the West Jesmond students who cause so much hassle, I don't think it's going to be an issue for much longer.

NECA seem to think three zone tickets are too cheap. Even though they've gone up by £120 in two years. Price gouging on Coast passengers, nothing more and nothing less.

It's enough to make me think twice about driving instead. Another year or two of these rises- NECA want it to be a staggering £900/yr- and there won't be any question at all.

 

[142094]

Use of the track brake doesn't necessarily correlate to the experience of the driver. In fact, at times it is much better to use the track brake quickly to reduce speed rather than leave it later and have to brake to a sudden stop.

Also, especially at stations which have crossings where the signals are always on red, much better to use the track brake than have a Spad.

 

[nerd]

http://www.itv.com/news/tyne-tees/2...-help-design-next-generation-of-metro-trains/

Consultation on Metro fleet replacement

roll-up to have your say!

Pop-up labs:

Customs House, South Shields - Wednesday 9 November, 12:00-17:00
Gateshead Interchange - Friday 11 November, 14:30-18:30
The Bridges Shopping Centre, Sunderland - Friday 18 November, 11:00-15:00
Tynemouth Market - Sunday 20 November, 9:00-16:00
Newcastle Airport - Thursday 24 November (on trains during the day)
intu Eldon Square - Saturday 26 November, 11:00-15:00

 

[ModernRailways]

There is some discussion regarding the issues on the Sunderland line over the weekend in a separate thread. Just for those who are subscribed to this thread.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=137962

 

[MetroCar4058]

This morning was pretty shambolic for Metro compared to their good record so far, as reflected by the relatively impressive 76% punctuality compared to last year. The rail head from Airport to Regent Centre was awfully contaminated, it clearly had not been treat and this was reflected in quite simply shambolic adhesion. Hat off to the driver who did his best to keep to time but the service was ~6 minutes late. I wonder if drivers get rather angered about the efforts to deal with leaf fall?

Also, do the magnetics have any option other than full application? Can they be used at say 1/2 their full power?

 

[ModernRailways]

This morning was pretty shambolic for Metro compared to their good record so far, as reflected by the relatively impressive 76% punctuality compared to last year. The rail head from Airport to Regent Centre was awfully contaminated, it clearly had not been treat and this was reflected in quite simply shambolic adhesion. Hat off to the driver who did his best to keep to time but the service was ~6 minutes late. I wonder if drivers get rather angered about the efforts to deal with leaf fall?

Also, do the magnetics have any option other than full application? Can they be used at say 1/2 their full power?

Track brakes only have full application and are only meant for use in emergencies. As 142094 said sometimes drivers will use the track brake to lose speed quickly as to prevent a spad or for other reasons.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Track brakes only have full application and are only meant for use in emergencies. As 142094 said sometimes drivers will use the track brake to lose speed quickly as to prevent a spad or for other reasons.

I understand the normal usage of them. However, I was just wondering if MetroCars had the capability to alter the amount of current passed through the coils to vary how harsh the magnetics brake (if that is even possible)
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Very impressed with the positive attitude staff had at Monument during the peak today, its great to see people enjoying their job and the public being courteous to those working there.

We have delays on trains heading around the coast routes currently, due to an issue a driver experienced while travelling through Benton. We are sending staff down and will update with more info. Until then trains will have to pass at a reduced speed.

Does anyone have any information on the issue at Benton? Many thanks in advance.

 

[TC60054]

I understand the normal usage of them. However, I was just wondering if MetroCars had the capability to alter the amount of current passed through the coils to vary how harsh the magnetics brake (if that is even possible)

A magnetic track brake only has two settings - enabled, and unenabled (if that's even a word). There's no variable current that can be used - it's intended use is to stop the tram / unit as quickly as possible, so there's not really much point in making the current running through it when it's activated variable.

 

[142094]

Drivers are traied on how to use the track brake where needed during wheelslip, and the general rule of thumb is to not use the track brake to bring the train to a sudden stop.

However, in an emergency obviously the track brake is used to full effect.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Thank you for the information as ever!

 

[142094]

LRA season has been strange this year, starting much later than normal and it is still going on into December. Unfortunately I think the RHTT stops running at the end of this month which will exacerbate the problems. Wheelslip has been quite bad on recent mornings due to the frost, and also with the councils now spreading grit, is also affecting trains going across level crossings, which of course is more noticeable between Fawdon and Callerton.

 

[MetroCar4058]

LRA season has been strange this year, starting much later than normal and it is still going on into December. Unfortunately I think the RHTT stops running at the end of this month which will exacerbate the problems. Wheelslip has been quite bad on recent mornings due to the frost, and also with the councils now spreading grit, is also affecting trains going across level crossings, which of course is more noticeable between Fawdon and Callerton.

Why does the RHTT stop running? I must say the train has been helpful but the problem is still rather bad. Perhaps gel applicators at the end of level crossings would be a good idea to help with contamination from the roads?

 

[142094]

Nexus specify the time that the leaf fall season exists, and as a result when it is no longer the leaf fall season, the treatment train doesn't have to run - I believe that Network Rail have a similar classification for leaf fall season being upto December IIRC.

The only difference between LRA caused by leaf fall and that caused by grit on level crossings is that the effect of the grit is only concentrated in one area, whereas leaf fall LRA can be anywhere (surprisingly even in tunnels), so its effect will be a lot lower.

 

[Scott M]

That day is pretty much upon us in North Tyneside, I can say that much. The trains are normally wedged even as far out as Northumberland Park and Shiremoor, and there are two huge new housing developments being built at Northumberland Park/Holystone and a third at West Monkseaton. I'm dreading the run up to Christmas.

They are just going to have to increase capacity with the new trains. I don't like the idea of side seats but it seems it is a necessary evil now.

Following a decent spell, it has been a bit of a **** show recently. From the experience of the replacement bus last week, which took 20 mins to get from Monument to Gateshead during evening rush hour, to the broken down train at Heworth causing big delays this morning.

 

[142094]

One thing for sure, it isn't going to get any better soon.