TV Alert - Dispatches on Channel 4 ''Train Journeys from Hell"

[ralphchadkirk]

The Working Timetable is a secret timetable to con the passengers? Give me strength...

 

[deltic1989]

when it started and I saw that it was Victor Meldrew presenting, that kind of set the tone really. And in the process of attempting to be informative he set about making himself look like an un-informed tw@, I mean honestly how many people have sat in the toilet on a commuter train eh? you only do that if youre trying to fare dodge right? and as if the stupid man expects people to bleive that the working timetable is a secret timetable so that TOCs can make excuses for late running services, i mean honestly, Mind you some people belive the tosh the Daily Mail print every day so anythings possable. total waste of time thank christ it wasnt on the BBC I would hate to think i'm paying my TV licence to fund crap like this.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

wI mean honestly how many people have sat in the toilet on a commuter train eh? you only do that if youre trying to fare dodge right?

In fairness to him on that point, sometimes people do.

 

[northwichcat]

To be fair how would a visitor to Manchester know which station would be best to depart from? As there is a frequent service from Victoria to Leeds I think its a reasonable request.

For an experiment I called NRES and pressed the option for Traintracker. Its useless if you have an accent. I tried asking the simple request of Newcastle to Sunderland, it thought Newcastle was Chingford!:roll:
My Wife however, made same call and got the required information and she is Chinese.........

I think the whole idea of him doing Victoria-Harrogate was to use Northern Rail services as they are operator of the year. As most people who travel with Northern know their trains are old, overcrowded and frequently faulty but more punctual than with other operators and this is exactly that Richard Wilson found with Northern.

 

[blacknight]

Right at the very end he phoned EMT as said he got a PF when towards the begining of the show he filmed a UPFN... a very interesting programme none the less (albeit heavily bias)

Should have travelled with East Coast as they would have only excessed him for forgetting is senior railcard.
Privitisation as resulted in the loss of standardisation in Britains Railways not to say duplication wasn't Dr Beeching supposed to get rid of that.
Politician come out really badly Conservatives messed up privitising railway & Ms Ellman from Labour forgot that Labour was running country & railways for last 13 years, have things gone down hill since last may:roll:

 

[northwichcat]

I absolutely despise NRES.

Customer: "I want to buy a ticket to X"
Me: "Thats X amount"
Customer: "But I phoned national rail inquires and they said......."
Me "FUUUUUUU...."

Made up prices and made up train times. I think they just roll dice sometimes for a laugh.

There was a ticket office person at Huddersfield I once heard telling someone to not contact NRE for rail enquiries because they tell you a load of rubbish.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

NRES Call Centre in the UK staffed by local and knowledgeable staff for starters........

Knowledgeable about which area exactly?

When I asked for Altrincham-Middlesbrough train times and fares they told me there were no direct trains between Manchester and Middlesbrough - WRONG and that I had to change at Manchester, Leeds and Darlington. They also gave me the wrong fare and told me to use a rail ticket on a Metrolink service that it wouldn't be valid on.

 

[Oswyntail]

What I was able to watch I found quite entertaining, and certainly little different from the arguments that crop up here regularly. The only part that made me snort was Steven Norris trying to push the old line that BR at the time of privatisation was impossibly inefficient and that privatisation was the cure. No one pointed out that he was President of the Road Hauliers Association!

 

[Daimler]

What I was able to watch I found quite entertaining, and certainly little different from the arguments that crop up here regularly. The only part that made me snort was Steven Norris trying to push the old line that BR at the time of privatisation was impossibly inefficient and that privatisation was the cure. No one pointed out that he was President of the Road Hauliers Association!

Indeed - I was more irritated by that part of the programme than by anything else. While at times it was undoubtedly sensationalist and somewhat unfair, in general I was pleasantly surprised by what I saw - especially when compared to the various 'trailers' for the show.

 

[jon0844]

In fairness to him on that point, sometimes people do.

The toilet looked like quite a nice place to sit. The FGW HSTs are pretty nice inside, so what's the fuss?

Are ALL the trains like that in the morning? I say that because I know a few services in the peak by me that are very busy, so I simply avoid them. If every train turns up full, that's different.

For me, I'm lucky in that on the GN route there are the inner and outer suburban routes, so I can wait for trains that start just one stop back. Does FGW run any trains that start at Reading that will be empty? They might take longer, but if someone moans about never getting a seat when there ARE trains with seats, they probably shouldn't moan too much.

 

[mailman]

Well, as a vocal critic of the clowns called first crapital connect I have to say that the program was a bit of a let down.

There is so much wrong with todays railways, that the program should have been like shooting kids in a pond or something. By the end of it I felt hollow and didnt get anything out of the show at all. Yet another missed opportunity to inform and educate...wasted down the drain.

Mailman

 

[passmore]

Well Richard Wilson was a joy to watch, especially as he battled with TrainTracker. I half expected him to come face to face with Wolmar and blurt out 'I don't beeelieve it'.

Was anyone really expecting this program to present a balanced argument of the state of our railways today?

 

[boing_uk]

BR had billions of debt that was written off when it was privatised to give a clean slate, it also had no debt repayment program so the debts were just growing without ever being paid back (had some debts from investment in the 70's it had never repayed a penny of). It didnt reach the NR debt against regulatory base but it was in the tens of billions. This was because the government controlled the purs strings and didnt allow it to make long term investment, instead it had to self fund itself and every investment had to make at least an 8% return on investment (nowadays its even worse with everything publically funded needing at least a 50% return on investment).

So the sectretary of state allowed BRB to go over the £5BN limit then?

 

[jon0844]

I half expected him to come face to face with Wolmar and blurt out 'I don't beeelieve it'.

He nearly said it a few times, and there was even a faint smirk when it happened! I wonder if he was told not to, or thought it would be too cheesy.

 

[northwichcat]

Well, as a vocal critic of the clowns called first crapital connect I have to say that the program was a bit of a let down.

I think that's your problem. The FCC and FGW haters have the national tabloids on their side so you fail to realise the tabloids have a go at your operators, they are unbalanced in reporting and make problems sound worse than they actually are.

The program gave a neutral view on a Northern Rail service: early 1980s diesel train (150) with original seating, Wilson commented on it being on time but the heating and lighting failing and commenting on the noisy engine. Wilson also mentioned Northern attracting more passengers and showed the train being overcrowded before it reached Leeds. That was a lot more balanced than the Daily Mail having a go.

 

[TGV]

I've just watched it online. There were a few amusing errors no doubt deliberately put in to highlight potential problems that the vast majority of public have the common sense to avoid, but they highlighted that the ticketing system is lunacy. Sounds just about right to me.

Overcrowding - that's not news. It's the same at rush hour into every major city in the world including Paris and Tokyo whos railways are often used by these journalists as a model of perfection. And what do they propose? At peak time more trains can't physically be put down most of these lines, and my GOD, we can't build a new line can we? What would the NIMBY's say? So, I pretty much ignored the overcrowding thing - it's a fact of modern life ANYWHERE there are large cities and railways. Maybe all those moaning about overcrowding should drive... let's see how that works out for y'all.

The ticketing bit was the most worthwhile - the system is sh*t. Even for people who know a fair bit about the network and how it all works.

I had to laugh at the pacer bit - because I agree with the sentiment - and also that RW was complaining about the drone of DMU engines - I can't stand the bloody things either for more than about 20 minutes.

Richard Wilson was fine - it's not like nobody knew what to expect from him. Overall, I'd give the program 6/10.

 

[The Barlow Boy]

when it started and I saw that it was Victor Meldrew presenting, that kind of set the tone really. And in the process of attempting to be informative he set about making himself look like an un-informed tw@, I mean honestly how many people have sat in the toilet on a commuter train eh? you only do that if youre trying to fare dodge right? and as if the stupid man expects people to bleive that the working timetable is a secret timetable so that TOCs can make excuses for late running services, i mean honestly, Mind you some people belive the tosh the Daily Mail print every day so anythings possable. total waste of time thank christ it wasnt on the BBC I would hate to think i'm paying my TV licence to fund crap like this.

I have a colleague who lives in Reading and often sits in the toilet on the way in to Paddington to gain a seat. I'm not defending the programme, I didn't watch it because I knew that it would be nonsense. Unless it goes out live what you watch is what the editor wants you to watch.

 

[jon0844]

We, as a nation, used to be able to do proper cutting journalism (like when Panorama was an hour long, before being dumbed down). Dispatches is actually quite unique in being an hour long on one subject these days, but it still padded out a lot of rather pointless things while missing the opportunity to go into more depth about the real problems. Was it really necessary to waste so much screen time on Richard Wilson not using a speech recognition service properly - and outdoors, where background noise makes it even worse?

However, Dispatches does the same thing on most subjects - so it's not a specific attack on the railways, rather poor and lazy research - and a lack of pride in wanting to do things properly, and fairly. To be fair, if I can, I bet the production company have cut resources to the bone like everyone else. I've heard shocking stories about the cuts within ITN and the BBC is also losing staff at the end of this month. Journalism will only continue to suffer, and everything will get dumbed down even more.

It's far easier to do celebrity gossip TV, crap like The Only Way Is Essex and quote 'news' from press releases than do hard hitting documentaries. What we have now is a standard formula for attacking businesses or industries, adopted by Dispatches, Panorama, Watchdog and so on.

The expenses scandal was a good example of getting things right, while a lot of other stuff was literally handed to the media on a plate (wikileaks).

 

[ralphchadkirk]

We, as a nation, used to be able to do proper cutting journalism (like when Panorama was an hour long, before being dumbed down).

What, you mean like the spaghetti harvest?

 

[jon0844]

If they showed that again next week, I am sure even more people would believe it!

Except, nobody would probably watch it as they'd be looking at the new series about Katie Price on the other side!

 

[mailman]

I think that's your problem. The FCC and FGW haters have the national tabloids on their side so you fail to realise the tabloids have a go at your operators, they are unbalanced in reporting and make problems sound worse than they actually are.

The point I was making was this;

"Even someone as myself, who is no fan of FCC, I found this show to be devoid of any useful information on the current state of the UK railway system".

Regards

Mailman

 

[Yew]

I think that's your problem. The FCC and FGW haters have the national tabloids on their side so you fail to realise the tabloids have a go at your operators, they are unbalanced in reporting and make problems sound worse than they actually are.

The program gave a neutral view on a Northern Rail service: early 1980s diesel train (150) with original seating, Wilson commented on it being on time but the heating and lighting failing and commenting on the noisy engine. Wilson also mentioned Northern attracting more passengers and showed the train being overcrowded before it reached Leeds. That was a lot more balanced than the Daily Mail having a go.

I wont have anyone slagging off northern 150's those trains are full of character!

Although i could imagine the government deciding to scrap the 150s and keep the pacers :/ Somtimes they do get stupid about fares too (100 quid for forgetting your wallet, but still having tickets :/

 

[Anon Mouse]

I wont have anyone slagging off northern 150's those trains are full of character!

Although i could imagine the government deciding to scrap the 150s and keep the pacers :/ Somtimes they do get stupid about fares too (100 quid for forgetting your wallet, but still having tickets :/

Terms and Conditions of Railcards state as follows "6. you must carry your Railcard with you on your journey and when asked by rail staff, you must show a valid ticket and valid Railcard. If you fail to do so, you will be required to pay the full price Standard Single fare for your journey as if no ticket was purchased before starting the journey and in some cases a Penalty Fare" prior to this it states "1. You must sign the Railcard before use to show acceptance of all the conditions listed in this leaflet"

These conditions are not difficult to understand, are rather simple and are not hidden. As you need to sign it, you are agreeing to the terms and therefore if you cannot produce your railcard then its full fare. If you discover you forgot your Passport when you get to the Airport Check In, will you be allowed to travel? The same applies to advance tickets, you tick a box if you buy it onlie which asks if you have read and understood the T & C's and staff at ticket office tell you you MUST travel on the booked service and the tickets state BOOKED TRAIN ONLY. Yes we do have discretion, but that does not mean we MUST use it in every case. Also if somebody has forgotten their Railcard and they have, for example a ticket from Skipton to Ashford you will be travelling on several trains so that passenger will be relying on say, 3 Guards, maybe at least 1 RPO, 3 members of Barrier staff to all use their discretion and its very unlikely that that passenger will make it all the way without somebody stopping him, charging him or PF'ing him. Sometimes we are able to meet people half way and charge an XS fare which can soothe the pain a little, but its not a God given right. The rules are rules, are explained and are simple. Such is life forgotten railcard or wrong train will cost £5.40 from Newcastle to Durham or £119.20 from Leeds to London.