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TV Alert - Dispatches on Channel 4 ''Train Journeys from Hell"
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Sun Chariot
Established Member
So it'll be delayed by two hours and then only formed of two 10 minute segments, as staff shortages prevent the full programme being run...?
MidnightFlyer
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I do hope that it involves serious stories, not just giving a 'platform' for people to air their views about everyday overcrowding etc on. Having said that, Channel 4 docs are usually good. I'll watch!
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Next Monday 21st at 8pm on Channel 4 there's a documentary on where Richard Wilson examines the state of railways in Britain.
Daimler
Member
:cry:
It does sound like it might be quite an interesting show though...I wonder what angle it will take - a general history of the railways up to this point, or a more serious look at the various effects privatisation has had on the network.
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WatcherZero
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So of all the TV rail presenters:
Michael Portillo
Pete Waterman
Michael Palin
Chris Barrie
Griff Rhys Jones
Joanna Lumley
probably a half dozen I dont remember, who was the best?
Michael Portillo
Pete Waterman
Michael Palin
Chris Barrie
Griff Rhys Jones
Joanna Lumley
probably a half dozen I dont remember, who was the best?
Dennis
Established Member
What did Joanna Lumley present? I missed it....did involve bouncing around on a Pacer at any point?
Of that list, Chris Barrie wins it for me.
Chris Barrie is very good, enthusiastic unlike Portillo, he literally sends me to sleep...not one of his episodes have kept me awake until the credits! Although I am genuinely interested in what he's saying my eyes do not agree! Pete Waterman is good, but if he wasn't a rail fan I wouldn't like him!
It's the "Dispatches" program they were fishing for tales of woe for not long back- given the one sided way they were asking about experiences of the railways, do not expect a balanced or fair showing, sensationalism is the name of this game
tbtc
Veteran Member
There was an advert for it with him phoning a "helpline" asking for a train from Manchester Victoria to Harrogate. If you're going to let the details be that sloppy on the short clip (anyone heading towards Harrogate would surely use Piccadilly), then I'm not expecting great things. Would like to be wrong, of course...
Masbroughlad
Established Member
I hope that it will expose some of the everyday problems that Joe Public comes up against. Whether that will make the remotest bit of difference remains to be seen!
So the first part of the helpline response should be along the lines of "You would be better off starting from Piccadilly". Or do you think that investigations should only ask standard questions (as has been suggested after the recent Which report!).
On the other hand, as the show is called "Train Journeys From Hell" I suspect it to have the full backing of the RAC Foundation. And win prizes for impartiality.
It will surely be a fair and balanced piece.
Which will explain why Channel 4 turned up at the bustling hub that is Kennett station today, to film the disgusting state of the toilets there as had been reported to them by someone enduring a 'journey from hell'.
Talk about digging for sh*t. Only one minor problem with the toilets there - they don't exist. (Not many passengers either !)
Which will explain why Channel 4 turned up at the bustling hub that is Kennett station today, to film the disgusting state of the toilets there as had been reported to them by someone enduring a 'journey from hell'.
Talk about digging for sh*t. Only one minor problem with the toilets there - they don't exist. (Not many passengers either !)
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Daimler
Member
Oh dear, what a pity. I was hoping for a somewhat more constructive programme.
Still, I suppose we oughtn't dismiss it out of hand before it's broadcast...
trickyvegas
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Always the chance to enjoy a pint at Stalybridge buffet bar though.
Simon Poole
Member
Rob Curling, did BBC Television Railwatch from the 80's with an few othr people, i think Penny Buston was another name with that show
Is this what we say these days, when the media portrays something we like in an unfavourable way, that it's 'unbalanced'? The ultimate Get Out Of Jail Free card allowing us to dismiss something out of hand when confronted with a view that conflicts with our own? Not dissimilar to dishonest politicians using the now meaningless phrase 'in good faith' to whitewash over any sort of egregious behaviour from fiddling expenses to illegal invasions.
The unpalatable fact is that the railways are confusing and difficult for normals to use, and that something that potentially highlights this may be unpleasant, but not necessarily unbalanced. On here we're all experts and a trait I've noticed from a lot of posters is very little sympathy for normals who don't share our level of understanding of what is an unneccesarily complex and arcane system. I've no more idea than anyone what will be in the programme, but let's at least watch it before defensively declaring it 'unbalanced' in advance.
The unpalatable fact is that the railways are confusing and difficult for normals to use, and that something that potentially highlights this may be unpleasant, but not necessarily unbalanced. On here we're all experts and a trait I've noticed from a lot of posters is very little sympathy for normals who don't share our level of understanding of what is an unneccesarily complex and arcane system. I've no more idea than anyone what will be in the programme, but let's at least watch it before defensively declaring it 'unbalanced' in advance.
The Barlow Boy
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"Normals" as opposed to............?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Richard Wilson is somewhat of a champagne socialist. He'll be using the programme as a plank to rail against privatisation.
The only people I ever saw giving a good enthusiastic and upbeat account of rail journeys were Michael Palin and Michael Portillo. Both proponents of railways and both thoroughly nice blokes (I've met them several times).
tbtc
Veteran Member
There are genuine problems, like the people "trapped" on the SE service overnight during the snow, some staff who need a little customer service training, some stations in a bad state, I'm not claiming that everything is rosy.
However, it is my experience that these kind of programmes seek out the very worst and try to pass it off as "everyday experiences".
I live in Pacerland, I'm under no illusions that the railways are always brilliant. But I'm wary of media reports which sensationalise the worst excesses and portray this as the "norm". Call me paranoid, but...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
They can be confusing/difficult, especially when making journeys on unfamiliar* lines etc. But passenger numbers have been rising over many years, we have the highest number of passengers per mile of track ever (correct me if I am wrong). So, whilst there are problems, the railways seem to be simple enough for a lot of people to be able to use without a chaperone.
(similarly, anyone driving round the M25/ Birmingham/Glasgow/Manchester who wasn't used to the roads may find *them* confusing and difficult to use, but we don't have programmes about that)
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Well imagine you don't usually get the train and live in north Manchester and get a phone call to say your relative living in Harrogate is very sick but you can't drive for whatever reason so have to get the train to see them. You wouldn't know to use Piccadilly for the fastest journey.
I wonder if there are more detailed statistics about that. Is the rise similar in straightforward journeys (eg Ilkley - Leeds, or Leeds to Bristol) and complex ones (eg Ilkley - Maesteg or Ilkley-Telford)? The latter one is one I have done frequently over the last few years, and I could understand people being put off by the complexity of decision making.
The consequences of using the wrong lane on a motorway do not include being PFed by a gorilla employed by FCC or a third party security firm. It is this well-publicised and very real fear of initimidation that helps to make the railways off-putting to normals. Also, going wrong on the road network can be easily put right at minimal extra cost and delay, especially with Sat Nav. This wouldn't make a very interesting programme IMHO: "Non-concentrating man takes wrong turning off M6 and has to head along M62 in wrong direction for a mile towards Newton-le-Willows before coming off at the next junction and heading back towards Manchester", as I did yesterday. Normals use the railway all the time, it's true, but how many of them feel they are getting value for money? Or how many are travelling on the cheapest fare they could have done? There is a niggling suspicion out there that fares are too high and it doesn't help the railways' case when it is exposed (often by enthusiasts) that it is often (usually?) possible to pay less.
The notion that high passenger numbers somehow implies that the railways are popular, or consistently easy to use is as facile as it is wrong. All transport has seen increases as profound societal changes have occurred in the last generation, and rail has only taken its share of that: it would be remarkable if rail journeys hadn't increased. People are using railways out of necessity and this does not imply that they are happy about high fares, overcrowding etc, merely that they are a captive audience. Doubtless some are happy with the service, but drawing conclusions on this based on passenger numbers is just plain wrong.
Once again, it's experts like you and me drawing conclusions about the real experiences of normals using something that we understand well that I have an issue with. When you understand something thoroughly it seems easy and it's often difficult to see why someone else doesn't get it.
Cranks.
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The vast, vast, vast majority of people that use the rail network in this country do so every day with little or no confusion, very little disruption- but with a bit of overcrowding perhaps.
See previous posts re simple versus complex journeys. Anyway, it's perception that counts when people are planning non-routine journeys (such as Manchester to Harrogate in the already much-slated example), and the railway is seen as a complex and expensive way to make longer journeys. And that's because it *is* a complex and expensive way to make longer journeys, unless you want to do a lot of searching about for the cheapest fare, something I as a crank actively enjoy doing, but I suspect most people see this as a chore. Where only one ticket choice exists of course it's not difficult.
Once again you seem to be a poster who can't get inside the head of a normal whose alternative will be driving the car over a longer distance.
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