Tube driver filming himself whilst driving

[Intermodal]

From I can see and I have said before, there is no safety issues as he's focused on the job, in fact it's useful to run a commentary to yourself so you can note danger or signals on the journey.

I don’t want to rehash the arguments in the previous five posts, but it seems pretty clear to me that people who are much more qualified to make this decision than either of us have taken a different view.

 

[Vespa]

I don’t want to rehash the arguments in the previous five posts, but it seems pretty clear to me that people who are much more qualified to make this decision than either of us have taken a different view.

I don't think many Tfl manager are qualified drivers themselves.

 

[skyhigh]

I do it sometimes to talk myself through complicated routes.

In your car?

 

[ThameslinkUser]

I don't think many Tfl manager are qualified drivers themselves.

What an obtuse comment. You don't need to be qualified to drive a train to carry out risk assessments for a driving environment.

 

[Vespa]

In your car?

Car, lorry and train.

 

[Goldfish62]

From I can see and I have said before, there is no safety issues as he's focused on the job, in fact it's useful to run a commentary to yourself so you can note danger or signals on the journey.

Very much like the Japanese "Shisa Kanko" pointing and calling out signals and points.

I do it sometimes to talk myself through complicated routes.

I've just finished reading an article in Modern Railways about the Peterbrough speeding incidents and it mentioned about the training technique that actively encourages drivers to point out aloud potential upcoming hazards. There was a driver in one of Don Coffey's excellent videos employing this technique. It's similar to Japanese drivers pointing to and acknowledging every signal.

And before anyone starts; yes, Don Coffey does have formal permission for his videos.

 

[skyhigh]

Car, lorry and train.

Your experience in train driving is, as you have previously said, limited to a preserved line driving experience. Not main line.

 

[Vespa]

Your experience in train driving is, as you have previously said, limited to a preserved line driving experience. Not main line.

Correct and I applied the "Shisa Kanko" to it which made it a better experience overall with very few mistakes made, 37, 50, 142 and 73 have different characteristics from each other, they weren't short trips either they were several return trips all day including the use of AWS, the principle remains the same it helped you focus on the job more without distractions.

I can understand more about where Dale is coming from, he's unconsciously applying "Shisa Kanko" without realizing it, the Tfl have made a big mistake in my opinion as this would be a good recruitment tool for potential tube drivers.

 

[Intermodal]

Correct and I applied the "Shisa Kanko" to it which made it a better experience overall with very few mistakes made, 37, 50, 142 and 73 have different characteristics from each other, they weren't short trips either they were several return trips all day including the use of AWS, the principle remains the same it helped you focus on the job more without distractions.

I can understand more about where Dale is coming from, he's unconsciously applying "Shisa Kanko" without realizing it, the Tfl have made a big mistake in my opinion as this would be a good recruitment tool for potential tube drivers.

Take a step back my friend. You’re lecturing main line train drivers on the safest way to drive based on what you learnt on a preserved railway paid experience.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

I can understand more about where Dale is coming from, he's unconsciously applying "Shisa Kanko" without realizing it, the Tfl have made a big mistake in my opinion as this would be a good recruitment tool for potential tube drivers.

Two points. Firstly, and most importantly, you can do risk based commentary without recording it let alone uploading it YouTube. Secondly, it only takes a few videos to see him playing with the camera whilst operating a train.

 

[AlterEgo]

I've been enjoying these videos too, it's a shame it's been stopped.

One thing I noticed in the comments was someone saying they're going to contact TFL to complain, but Dale asked them not to - I guess in case it makes it worse.

I can't copy and paste from the YouTube app, but screenshot below.

View attachment 168427
Not sure yet if the existing videos will be removed either.

There's a statement from TFL online apparently, will see if I can find it.

Edit - struggling to find it, but have screenshot what was said on YouTube comments (on the video mentioned above) - BUT obviously can't guarantee it's accuracy.
View attachment 168428
View attachment 168429

I blame Kay Bosch personally.

 

[Vespa]

Take a step back my friend. You’re lecturing main line train drivers on the safest way to drive based on what you learnt on a preserved railway paid experience.

Whether you work on the railways or just an armchair enthusiast who has never touched an AWS is neither here or there.

Either way my point still stands, Dale is a fully qualified LU driver, he knows more about safety rules on the LU more than you and me, why else would a manager give him permission? It's more a case of buzz kills who don't like something they can't control.

Argue with the subject not the person.

 

[Intermodal]

Either way my point still stands, Dale is a fully qualified LU driver, he knows more about safety rules on the LU more than you and me, why else would a manager give him permission? It's more a case of buzz kills who don't like something they can't control.

So any driver should be able to set company wide policy because they know best about how to drive? Argument doesn’t really follow, does it….

 

[stuart81]

On the other hand, take a moment to consider that the reply TfL gave indicates that, at some level, someone has authorised tube drivers to film in cabs without ever giving any consideration to whether it might affect the safety of passengers. Let that mull around in your head. I find it quite astounding, honestly.

How do you know they didn't give consideration? Seems like authorisation was at a local level and this directive is from higher up presumably after people have stirred things with TFL?

 

[Trainfan2019]

I've watched a lot of Dale's underground videos and really enjoyed them through the past few months.

He seems a very safety and security aware driver. His videos give an excellent insight into driving on the underground and yes, it would be great to see more footage of the things that the general public don't usually see. However, I fully accept and understand that he is not allowed to film certain areas.

 

[Intermodal]

How do you know they didn't give consideration? Seems like authorisation was at a local level and this directive is from higher up presumably after people have stirred things with TFL?

Because 'giving consideration' in a railway environment would mean risk assessing it. TfL state that no risk assessment exists, so therefore it hasn't been given consideration.

 

[Vespa]

Two points. Firstly, and most importantly, you can do risk based commentary without recording it let alone uploading it YouTube. Secondly, it only takes a few videos to see him playing with the camera whilst operating a train.

The trains were stationary I believe.

 

[thomalex]

To me the issue was this was a side hustle while he was working and being paid on company time as a driver. The videos were monetised and had a lot of views so no doubt he was bringing in a fair sum for these videos. If he wants to host and record videos on the tube in his own time that's no problem but while you're on the clock it's not on really. And understandably this has brought about some animosity among other drivers like the FOI request mentioned in an earlier post, never mind if there was some incident and it was then disclosed this driver was hosting a video at the time and TfL were happy for him to do it. Clearly is best of everyone if there is a blanket ban on this.

 

[Mawkie]

The videos were monetised and had a lot of views so no doubt he was bringing in a fair sum for these videos. If he wants to host and record videos on the tube in his own time that's no problem but while you're on the clock it's not on really.

Not quite true, that was the reason Tube Girl made headlines earlier this month.

TikTok star Sabrina Bahsoon, known to many as ‘Tube Girl’, was warned earlier this year by Transport for London (TfL) about filming ‘commercial’ videos on their property, the Standard can reveal. A TfL spokesman said: “We're pleased that some customers enjoy our services so much that they are moved to share their experiences via social media, but when this stops being personal videos, and becomes an organised commercial endeavour, we understandably need to ensure it is done properly and agree commercial terms. “This helps ensure filming is safe, protects our intellectual property and provides revenue that is reinvested in the transport network for the benefit of everyone. We contacted Sabrina Bahsoon’s agent earlier this year to explore the possibilities.”

 

[thomalex]

Not quite true, that was the reason Tube Girl made headlines earlier this month.

Which seems acceptable to me, I know if I just starting filming around tube station I'd be asked what I was up to.

My point was even if it's perfectly safe, the concept of someone earning money on a separate interest while being paid on company time, and that interest being enabled by the job he's being paid for, is in my eyes quite dubious. If he wants to do it in his own time, and even if he wants to join someone in the cab and film if TfL were happy with it, that would be perfectly fine.

 

[AlterEgo]

To me the issue was this was a side hustle while he was working and being paid on company time as a driver. The videos were monetised

The channel isn't monetised.

 

[Intermodal]

The channel isn't monetised.

Why do you believe that? He has a membership program and accepts donations in the comments.

 

[AlterEgo]

Why do you believe that? He has a membership program and accepts donations in the comments.

That's interesting - I have a browser extension which usually indicates if a channel is part of the YouTube Partner Program, which says the channel is not monetised. But the presence of Super Thanks means it must be, so you are probably right there.

 

[Intermodal]

That's interesting - I have a browser extension which usually indicates if a channel is part of the YouTube Partner Program, which says the channel is not monetised. But the presence of Super Thanks means it must be, so you are probably right there.

The telltale sign in the page source code that used to indicate this was removed by YouTube. There's no longer any way to tell other than the obvious UI elements such as membership, etc.

 

[AlterEgo]

The telltale sign in the page source code that used to indicate this was removed by YouTube. There's no longer any way to tell other than the obvious UI elements such as membership, etc.

Are you telling me how to do my job?:

(But seriously, good catch, and you learn something new every day!)

 

[eldomtom2]

Not quite true, that was the reason Tube Girl made headlines earlier this month.

Though in that case she was making paid promotional videos, so she was taking a step beyond just monetising her videos.

 

[Intermodal]

Are you telling me how to do my job?:

(But seriously, good catch, and you learn something new every day!)

I'll have you know I'm also a YouTube Partner, so I am an expert in this field. I'm almost at 1,040 subscribers now....

 

[renegademaster]

I thought you needed a very large viewing base before you actually started making a meaningful amount off YouTube

 

[Intermodal]

I thought you needed a very large viewing base before you actually started making a meaningful amount off YouTube

Meaningful is very subjective, and earnings vary wildly by creator and all sorts of factors, but it's quite likely Dale has made a few thousand, and possible (although I'm not sure that it is likely) that it broke into five figures.

 

[Lockwood]

Was Tube Girl the driver that was on Secrets of the London Underground?

The TfL approved TV programme?



That FOI request really did read as a quite pointed question, and almost like the "when did you stop hitting your wife" trap. "Did you allow this extremely dangerous thing that is a security risk and make trains start falling from the sky?" "No" - you have no control over your staff and they can run wild. "Yes" - you support the behaviour being described as extremely negative.