Trolley pushed on to track at Euston

[Aictos]

He had probably just got off a train but had been delayed. No excuse but that is what you get from a benefits scrounger. Anyone using trains is a benefits scrounger because of the amount of government subsidies. - They deserve better., London, United Kingdom, 2/9/2013 22:49 =============== are they all thick in London ?
- Geoff , Guildford, United Kingdom, 03/9/2013 13:16

Yup really!

 

[HowardGWR]

He had probably just got off a train but had been delayed. No excuse but that is what you get from a benefits scrounger. Anyone using trains is a benefits scrounger because of the amount of government subsidies. - They deserve better., London, United Kingdom, 2/9/2013 22:49 =============== are they all thick in London ?
- Geoff , Guildford, United Kingdom, 03/9/2013 13:16

Yup really!

According to the ex-minister for transport, it's only rich people who can afford rail travel!

On the subject of BTP adverts this has just appeared in the Bristol Post.

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Poli...tory-19745346-detail/story.html#axzz2dqfYMxST

But the incident happened in July!! These CCTV images don't seem to be very good, do they? As it's Bristol, he looked like Ian Holloway even, it's so indistinct!

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I've come across a wide variety of people in my career with many different types of mental impairment, I have yet to meet someone who would do this as a result of that. If this is the case he needs to be found quickly and evaluated, otherwise what's to stop him getting into a car and driving it in to someone or stabbing someone with a knife at random?

Clearly you haven't met many people with mental health problems! I've come across loads of people with psychotic conditions who wouldn't think twice about attacking someone, or pushing a trolley onto a railway line. The most notable one I remember had to be restrained by armed coppers he was that violent.

 

[Aictos]

Clearly you haven't met many people with mental health problems! I've come across loads of people with psychotic conditions who wouldn't think twice about attacking someone, or pushing a trolley onto a railway line. The most notable one I remember had to be restrained by armed coppers he was that violent.

At my workplace, we had such a guy who had to be restrained by no fewer then 5/6 coppers - they're tried to handcuff him and the cuffs ended up flying and landing about 20ft away.

They did managed to subdue him though eventually....

 

[Monty]

Clearly you haven't met many people with mental health problems! I've come across loads of people with psychotic conditions who wouldn't think twice about attacking someone, or pushing a trolley onto a railway line. The most notable one I remember had to be restrained by armed coppers he was that violent.

Which begs the question why these indivduals have not been evaluated and either assigned a minder or sectioned and receive the treatment they sorely need if they that much of a danger to the public. I have worked with the public for nearly all of my professional career I've met a wide variety of people from all walks of life, including many with mental and physical disabilites. So I stand by my original statement.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It's called "Care in the Community".

( A recent feature in the Daily Telegraph revealed that on average since that began there has been one murder every 8 days relating to it - I'm sure I put the link on this forum somewhere at the time. )

 

[Mark_H]

It's called "Care in the Community".

( A recent feature in the Daily Telegraph revealed that on average since that began there has been one murder every 8 days relating to it - I'm sure I put the link on this forum somewhere at the time. )

Sounds like shoddy journalism to me. That figure could match the number of murderers found to have mental health issues after the fact, but that's very different from saying that the "authorities" knew all of these were dangerous and left them in the community. In fact, this class of murderer has halved in the last 10 years, so the Telegraph could as easily claimed that CitC was working!

Fact is, you're more than twice as likely to be murdered by your spouse than by a random madman.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Which begs the question why these indivduals have not been evaluated and either assigned a minder or sectioned and receive the treatment they sorely need if they that much of a danger to the public.

Because often they are first presentation mental health patients. Or they are being treated, but for a whole host of reasons haven't been complying with their medication regime. Sometime's it's just an exacerbation of an existing disorder.

There's very little risk to members of the public from these types of patients - it's mostly the NHS, police and the familes that get the brunt of it.

 

[jon0844]

I realise the risks are probably very small, but I feel rather uneasy when a few people living near me who are 'Care in the Community' are out.

There's one in particular who seems nice enough, but rather too friendly (as in coming up to your face almost and saying 'Hello mate!' and being intimidating even when he's being friendly) and he has certainly scared a few bus drivers - our buses not having security screens.

He's done time (he pulled a knife on a neighbour) and regularly travels into town to get his medication. I have no idea what would happen if he doesn't take his medication, and given how loud he talks on the bus to his mates - he has effectively broadcast to everyone that he takes other illegal drugs too.

All you can do is try and be nice to him, but there's always that heart-stopping moment when you meet him at a time where you'd really rather not.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

All you can do is try and be nice to him, but there's always that heart-stopping moment when you meet him at a time where you'd really rather not.

Given we live in the same town, I'm surprised I haven't met him yet!

I completely understand why people feel this way about CitC. Mental health problems are more intimidating that physical problems, and less easy to "fix". Sometimes the release of these patients does go wrong, but the vast majority of the time it doesn't.

 

[AndrewP]

I have mental health problems, get regularly frustrated and occasionally self-harm but I wouldn't dream of doing something like that.

Sorry, that is possible mitigation to a community sentance but not a reason this guy should get away with it altogether.

Excellent proof that a mental health problem does not mean stupidity and irrationality.

Also huge kudos for honesty as lets be honest everyone has had poor mental health at some point in their life.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Excellent proof that a mental health problem does not mean stupidity and irrationality.

Proof that one particular condition in one particular person does not mean doing actions that other's percieve as stupid I think you mean.

 

[W230]

If you look at the dates on these BTP clips, you will usually see that the event took place weeks ago, and yet the message is always 'can you id?' etc.

So what are they playing at? Clearly the videos are available almost straightaway. I can only think of two reasons. One is, they didn't want to give the perp the chance to get away (but to where could anyone flee for these relatively minor offences) or change their appearance. Second is that they have in fact already arrested the perp but could do with some second witness as he /she is disputing the video is of them.

Any other explanations?

I believe the actual reason is more boring than this and is to do with the laws set out in Code D of PACE, which concerns identification procedures.

Officers will often try and identify the offender locally (ie -staff actually at the station) and will often next circulate the photo force wide (or to local/neighbouring forces) to see if anyone recognises the miscreant. If they still can't identify them then they will consider a press release and circulate the images in the media.

The wider the photos are circulated, the weaker the identification procedure becomes. Furthermore, a 'witness' who identifies someone from a photo is not a witness to the offence, but only to saying that the person who the police want to speak to about an offence displays a likeness to Mr X.

So if they had already interviewed a suspect and the suspect were denying it, they would again ask for anyone who witnessed the incident to come forward and then ask them to view an ID parade concerning the suspect but they would not release an image of the suspect in the media and say "does anyone recognise this naughty boy"

And that's the reason.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It's called "Care in the Community".

( A recent feature in the Daily Telegraph revealed that on average since that began there has been one murder every 8 days relating to it - I'm sure I put the link on this forum somewhere at the time. )

Found the link:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...failing-mental-health-system-must-change.html

 

[GatwickDepress]

I can't really see the person in the CCTV pictures doing what he did as a result of any mental disorder. It's likely the series of events were similar to Mary Bale's - better known as the "cat bin lady" - who put a cat in a wheelie bin as she "thought it would be funny". It's that "you are what you are in the dark" gubbins. People don't always act the "right way" when they believe what they do is free from judgement.

Surprised at how quick it's turned to speculating about whether the person has mental illnesses, to be honest.

 

[Geezertronic]

I can't really see the person in the CCTV pictures doing what he did as a result of any mental disorder. It's likely the series of events were similar to Mary Bale's - better known as the "cat bin lady" - who put a cat in a wheelie bin as she "thought it would be funny". It's that "you are what you are in the dark" gubbins. People don't always act the "right way" when they believe what they do is free from judgement.

Surprised at how quick it's turned to speculating about whether the person has mental illnesses, to be honest.

I reckon the guy is just an idiot. People like him give real mental health suffers a bad name. I hate the fact that mental health is often used to excuse someone's bad behaviour or irresponsible actions (and beyond)

 

[D365]

I can't really see the person in the CCTV pictures doing what he did as a result of any mental disorder. It's likely the series of events were similar to Mary Bale's - better known as the "cat bin lady" - who put a cat in a wheelie bin as she "thought it would be funny"...

There was the "washing machine cat" guy in my area... He imprisoned his cat "Princess", videoed and uploaded to YouTube... Few clothes short of a wash basket, or something like that.

 

[Mark_H]

Found the link:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...failing-mental-health-system-must-change.html

I'm loath to be too harsh on the writer of that piece, as he has suffered his own personal tragedy, but the statistics used to back him up are scattershot at best. The headline number of "900 mental health homicides have taken place since 1993" fails to say how that is defined or give it any context. 5 mins research shows it's based on the number of people found to have mental health issues after committing a murder, with no information on how many were known to have these issues beforehand, and when you consider that "the authorities should have done something" is the main thrust of the piece, that's just shoddy. The context is that that's in the region of 10-15% of murders.

Worst of all, the campaigning website linked in the piece is only claiming 20-30% of these are preventable (and their basis for that claim is itself a bit dubious) - a statistic that strangely doesn't appear in the Telegraph, presumably as it destroys their attempt to imply all those deaths were someone's fault.

The simple fact is that you are massively more likely to be murdered by friends or family than a random mentally ill person who "ought to have been locked up already."

(And yes, this is now totally off topic, so I'll leave it there)

 

[tra1nsp0tter]

Without being funny here, but this topic was about someone pushing a trolley onto the line, & has now descended into a debate about mental health & weather or not the man who did it, has mental health issues???....in my own opinion, I think the man has just done it because the trolley was there & he didn't think/know he was being recorded....

I am in no way saying it's acceptable, however, everyone does stupid things in their lives & this is one of they moments.

 

[the sniper]

Apparently this fella handed himself in. There was a bit on This Morning's 'Crime File' section at around 12pm, I think they said he was in his late 40's.

 

[tsr]

Apparently this fella handed himself in. There was a bit on This Morning's 'Crime File' section at around 12pm, I think they said he was in his late 40's.

I think he handed himself in on the 23rd, but I might be wrong. I haven't checked what the "Crime File" thingy had to say.

 

[callum9999]

I reckon the guy is just an idiot. People like him give real mental health suffers a bad name. I hate the fact that mental health is often used to excuse someone's bad behaviour or irresponsible actions (and beyond)

In my experience its rarely used to excuse behaviour, but is used to explain behaviour. Completely different.

Though I've always been confused over what the average person views as a mental health issue. Logically, I don't see how pretty much any behaviour cant be classified as a mental health problem. It may not have been given a medical name, but I don't see how having an urge to do something like this is any different to having an urge to self harm etc.