Trivia: Fast and slow direct trains

[YellowBrick]

I noticed the other day that a direct train from Lancaster to Carlisle takes about 3.5hrs hours on the Furness and Cumbrian Coast lines, but less than 50mins on the also-direct WCML. That's about 4.2 times faster.

Are there any other examples of such extreme differences between two direct trains between the same two stations?

 

[Kite159]

Before December when Northern ran Crewe - Manchester Airport - Liverpool stopping services on a Saturday morning there were two trains advertised as Liverpool at the same time, one was an LNR service which was semi-fast (First Stop Runcorn) the other was the Northern stopper which took a lot longer

 

[WizCastro197]

I noticed the other day that a direct train from Lancaster to Carlisle takes about 3.5hrs hours on the Furness and Cumbrian Coast lines, but less than 50mins on the also-direct WCML. That's about 4.2 times faster.

Are there any other examples of such extreme differences between two direct trains between the same two stations?

Southern and South Western Railway (SWR) between Clapham Junction and Southampton/Portsmouth? The SWR service runs via Basingstoke/Winchester, and the Southern service runs via Chichester/Horsham/Gatwick Airport.

It isn't 'extreme' but the difference is about 1h10 slower on Southern than South Western between London-Southampton.

 

[Townsend Hook]

Not quite so extreme, but there’s Glasgow Central - Carlisle, around one hour via the WCML (Avanti/TPE) or around two and a half hours via the Glasgow & South Western Railway route (Scotrail).

 

[StarCrossing]

Shrewsbury to Cardiff can be done in under 2 hours via Hereford. There are still some trains via Llandrindod (for example there seems to be one on Sundays from May), and these take over 5 hours.

 

[PTR 444]

Swansea to Shrewsbury is much slower via the Heart of Wales route compared to going via the Marches, despite the former route being more direct.

 

[D6130]

Merseyrail and TfW (when it's running) between Liverpool and Chester.

LNER & Grand Central between London Kings Cross and Sunderland.

TfW between Shrewsbury and Llanelli/Swansea via Llandrindod or Abergavenny.

TfW via Rhoose and GWR via Pencoed between Cardiff and Bridgend.

 

[PGAT]

SouthEastern: Hastings to London (Charing Cross) - 1h 36. (London Bridge) 1h 25.
Southern: Hastings to London (Victoria) - 2h 10

 

[geordieblue]

Leeds-York - about 25 mins on the fastest TPE via Garforth, about 1hr 20 via Harrogate

 

[tbtc]

In Serco days, Northern ran an hourly Doncaster - Retford service that took about an hour and a half (all stops via Sheffield) rather than the fifteen minutes it took on DOR/ VTEC/ HT etc

But that was probably nothing compared to the Leeds - Wakefield services that ran via Bradford/ Huddersfield rather than fast along the ECML

Ah, the good old days… Not that they were appreciated at the time!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Manchester Piccadilly to London via most of Wales (one of the Eurostar Link services) vs. direct via the WCML? I think it was 7 hours?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Manchester Piccadilly to London via most of Wales (one of the Eurostar Link services) vs. direct via the WCML? I think it was 7 hours?

These weren't between the exact same two stations as stipulated by the OP, were they? (IIRC, the circuitous service was to London Waterloo, rather than London Euston).

And in any event, the Manchester Piccadilly -> London Waterloo service hasn't been operated for maybe a good couple of decades now.

 

[JWK]

St Pancras to Gravesend: 23 minutes on a high-speed Southeastern from upstairs; 1hr 15 minutes on a Thameslink from the basement.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Another former one was Liverpool Lime St to London Euston, LNR about 5 hours via Birmingham, Avanti about 2 and a bit.

Good riddance to the mess it made of the timetable, though, the last one running in 2020.

 

[lachlan]

Inverness-Edinburgh:

3hrs31mins via Perth and Stirling

4hrs41mins via Aberdeen and Dundee (18 stops)

Not as big a difference as I expected given the extra stops on the service via Aberdeen and how slow the line is around Burntisland.

 

[Halish Railway]

Peterborough to Doncaster;
48 minutes non-stop LNER
122 minutes via Lincoln

Tame Bridge Parkway to Wolverhampton;
19 minutes direct (Including 7 minutes of allowances to account for the under construction stations)
53 minutes via Birmingham New Street

Leeds to Huddersfield (Sundays);
17 minutes non-stop TPE
60 minutes via Bradford

Salford Crescent to Blackburn;
39 minutes via Bolton
76 minutes via Todmorden

 

[dk1]

Swansea to Shrewsbury is much slower via the Heart of Wales route compared to going via the Marches, despite the former route being more direct.

Nice to take that route occasionally if time permits.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Mar 2023 ==

These weren't between the exact same two stations as stipulated by the OP, were they? (IIRC, the circuitous service was to London Waterloo, rather than London Euston).

And in any event, the Manchester Piccadilly -> London Waterloo service hasn't been operated for maybe a good couple of decades now.

The Manchester-Penzance Wessex/W&W Alphaline 158s had a roundabout route via Hereford to get to Bristol due to Virgin Trains moderation of competition rules. They also avoided Newport which was odd for the Marches.

 

[mlambeuk]

Scarborough to York
50 mins on Tpexpress via Malton
2hrs 45 mins. on Northern via Bridlington and Hull (i think there's only 1 train per day ).

 

[RailWonderer]

Nice to take that route occasionally if time permits.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Mar 2023 ==


The Manchester-Penzance Wessex/W&W Alphaline 158s had a roundabout route via Hereford to get to Bristol due to Virgin Trains moderation of competition rules. They also avoided Newport which was odd for the Marches.

Will be much nicer on 197s than 153s that often do that route.

 

[class 9]

Birmingham New Street to Glasgow Central
XC 6h10
Avanti 4h55

 

[dk1]

Will be much nicer on 197s than 153s that often do that route.

Only saw 158s back in the day on the Pnz. Often the Ginster livery units.

 

[Warrior2852]

Edinburgh to Glasgow has 5 separate routes (Falkirk High, Falkirk Grahamston, Airdrie, Shotts, Carstairs) all of which take wildly different times.

 

[greyman42]

Scarborough to York
50 mins on Tpexpress via Malton
2hrs 45 mins. on Northern via Bridlington and Hull (i think there's only 1 train per day ).

Which train goes all the way via Hull?

 

[mlambeuk]

Which train goes all the way via Hull?

0815 2R04 departure from Scarborough goes to York via Bridlington and Hull

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Leeds to Sheffield is a bit of a mixed bag. Fast via Barnsley; slow via Barnsley; and slow via Moorthorpe (all Northern); and fast via Wakefield Westgate (CrossCountry). Then there was the old once-a-day service via Huddersfield, which had the false destination of Dodworth on the screens at Leeds.

 

[A0]

Finsbury Park - Stevenage.

19 mins on a fast via Welwyn
37 mins on a stopper via Welwyn
51 mins via Hertford North.

Stafford - Crewe

~18 mins direct
43 mins via Stoke on Trent.

 

[hexagon789]

Inverness-Edinburgh:

3hrs31mins via Perth and Stirling

4hrs41mins via Aberdeen and Dundee (18 stops)

Not as big a difference as I expected given the extra stops on the service via Aberdeen and how slow the line is around Burntisland.

Glasgow-Inverness:

Via Aviemore - typically 3h22-3h26
Via Aberdeen - 5 hours (the 1439 departure)

 

[Warrior2852]

Leeds to Sheffield is a bit of a mixed bag. Fast via Barnsley; slow via Barnsley; and slow via Moorthorpe (all Northern); and fast via Wakefield Westgate (CrossCountry). Then there was the old once-a-day service via Huddersfield, which had the false destination of Dodworth on the screens at Leeds.

Throw in as well 2 Northern stoppers via Doncaster (the same route as a lot of the CrossCountry fasts), though that does involve a change.

 

[class 9]

Throw in as well 2 Northern stoppers via Doncaster (the same route as a lot of the CrossCountry fasts), though that does involve a change.

There are 3 XC services that go Leeds-Doncaster-Sheffield on Sunday mornings(54 mins), also during the week the last XC service of the day goes Sheffield - Doncaster(via Broughton Lane) - Leeds,1h 06.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Throw in as well 2 Northern stoppers via Doncaster (the same route as a lot of the CrossCountry fasts), though that does involve a change.

Fares are higher via Doncaster though, as I found out years ago on a St Pancras service that ran that way.