• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Trivia: Fast and slow direct trains

Status
Not open for further replies.

YellowBrick

Member
Joined
20 Sep 2021
Messages
74
Location
Earthl
I noticed the other day that a direct train from Lancaster to Carlisle takes about 3.5hrs hours on the Furness and Cumbrian Coast lines, but less than 50mins on the also-direct WCML. That's about 4.2 times faster.

Are there any other examples of such extreme differences between two direct trains between the same two stations?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Kite159

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Jan 2014
Messages
22,826
Location
West of Andover
Before December when Northern ran Crewe - Manchester Airport - Liverpool stopping services on a Saturday morning there were two trains advertised as Liverpool at the same time, one was an LNR service which was semi-fast (First Stop Runcorn) the other was the Northern stopper which took a lot longer
 

WizCastro197

Established Member
Joined
12 May 2022
Messages
1,468
Location
Reigate
I noticed the other day that a direct train from Lancaster to Carlisle takes about 3.5hrs hours on the Furness and Cumbrian Coast lines, but less than 50mins on the also-direct WCML. That's about 4.2 times faster.

Are there any other examples of such extreme differences between two direct trains between the same two stations?
Southern and South Western Railway (SWR) between Clapham Junction and Southampton/Portsmouth? The SWR service runs via Basingstoke/Winchester, and the Southern service runs via Chichester/Horsham/Gatwick Airport.

It isn't 'extreme' but the difference is about 1h10 slower on Southern than South Western between London-Southampton.
 
Last edited:

Townsend Hook

Member
Joined
3 Aug 2011
Messages
932
Location
GB
Not quite so extreme, but there’s Glasgow Central - Carlisle, around one hour via the WCML (Avanti/TPE) or around two and a half hours via the Glasgow & South Western Railway route (Scotrail).
 

StarCrossing

Member
Joined
27 Jul 2015
Messages
229
Shrewsbury to Cardiff can be done in under 2 hours via Hereford. There are still some trains via Llandrindod (for example there seems to be one on Sundays from May), and these take over 5 hours.
 

PTR 444

Established Member
Joined
22 Aug 2019
Messages
2,647
Location
Wimborne
Swansea to Shrewsbury is much slower via the Heart of Wales route compared to going via the Marches, despite the former route being more direct.
 

D6130

Established Member
Joined
12 Jan 2021
Messages
9,114
Location
West Yorkshire/Tuscany
Merseyrail and TfW (when it's running) between Liverpool and Chester.

LNER & Grand Central between London Kings Cross and Sunderland.

TfW between Shrewsbury and Llanelli/Swansea via Llandrindod or Abergavenny.

TfW via Rhoose and GWR via Pencoed between Cardiff and Bridgend.
 

PGAT

Established Member
Joined
13 Apr 2022
Messages
2,132
Location
Selhurst
SouthEastern: Hastings to London (Charing Cross) - 1h 36. (London Bridge) 1h 25.
Southern: Hastings to London (Victoria) - 2h 10
 

tbtc

Veteran Member
Joined
16 Dec 2008
Messages
18,060
Location
Reston City Centre
In Serco days, Northern ran an hourly Doncaster - Retford service that took about an hour and a half (all stops via Sheffield) rather than the fifteen minutes it took on DOR/ VTEC/ HT etc

But that was probably nothing compared to the Leeds - Wakefield services that ran via Bradford/ Huddersfield rather than fast along the ECML

Ah, the good old days… Not that they were appreciated at the time!
 

Mcr Warrior

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Jan 2009
Messages
17,292
Manchester Piccadilly to London via most of Wales (one of the Eurostar Link services) vs. direct via the WCML? I think it was 7 hours?
These weren't between the exact same two stations as stipulated by the OP, were they? (IIRC, the circuitous service was to London Waterloo, rather than London Euston).

And in any event, the Manchester Piccadilly -> London Waterloo service hasn't been operated for maybe a good couple of decades now.
 

JWK

Member
Joined
20 Dec 2017
Messages
53
St Pancras to Gravesend: 23 minutes on a high-speed Southeastern from upstairs; 1hr 15 minutes on a Thameslink from the basement.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
113,712
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Another former one was Liverpool Lime St to London Euston, LNR about 5 hours via Birmingham, Avanti about 2 and a bit.

Good riddance to the mess it made of the timetable, though, the last one running in 2020.
 

lachlan

Member
Joined
11 Aug 2019
Messages
1,171
Inverness-Edinburgh:

3hrs31mins via Perth and Stirling

4hrs41mins via Aberdeen and Dundee (18 stops)

Not as big a difference as I expected given the extra stops on the service via Aberdeen and how slow the line is around Burntisland.
 

Halish Railway

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2017
Messages
2,177
Location
West Yorkshire / Birmingham
Peterborough to Doncaster;
48 minutes non-stop LNER
122 minutes via Lincoln

Tame Bridge Parkway to Wolverhampton;
19 minutes direct (Including 7 minutes of allowances to account for the under construction stations)
53 minutes via Birmingham New Street

Leeds to Huddersfield (Sundays);
17 minutes non-stop TPE
60 minutes via Bradford

Salford Crescent to Blackburn;
39 minutes via Bolton
76 minutes via Todmorden
 

dk1

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Oct 2009
Messages
19,874
Location
East Anglia
Swansea to Shrewsbury is much slower via the Heart of Wales route compared to going via the Marches, despite the former route being more direct.
Nice to take that route occasionally if time permits.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

These weren't between the exact same two stations as stipulated by the OP, were they? (IIRC, the circuitous service was to London Waterloo, rather than London Euston).

And in any event, the Manchester Piccadilly -> London Waterloo service hasn't been operated for maybe a good couple of decades now.
The Manchester-Penzance Wessex/W&W Alphaline 158s had a roundabout route via Hereford to get to Bristol due to Virgin Trains moderation of competition rules. They also avoided Newport which was odd for the Marches.
 

mlambeuk

Member
Joined
19 Feb 2013
Messages
265
Location
York
Scarborough to York
50 mins on Tpexpress via Malton
2hrs 45 mins. on Northern via Bridlington and Hull (i think there's only 1 train per day ).
 

RailWonderer

Established Member
Joined
25 Jul 2018
Messages
2,217
Location
All around the network
Nice to take that route occasionally if time permits.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


The Manchester-Penzance Wessex/W&W Alphaline 158s had a roundabout route via Hereford to get to Bristol due to Virgin Trains moderation of competition rules. They also avoided Newport which was odd for the Marches.
Will be much nicer on 197s than 153s that often do that route.
 

Warrior2852

Member
Joined
27 Oct 2018
Messages
318
Edinburgh to Glasgow has 5 separate routes (Falkirk High, Falkirk Grahamston, Airdrie, Shotts, Carstairs) all of which take wildly different times.
 

61653 HTAFC

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Dec 2012
Messages
19,364
Location
Yorkshire
Leeds to Sheffield is a bit of a mixed bag. Fast via Barnsley; slow via Barnsley; and slow via Moorthorpe (all Northern); and fast via Wakefield Westgate (CrossCountry). Then there was the old once-a-day service via Huddersfield, which had the false destination of Dodworth on the screens at Leeds.
 

A0

On Moderation
Joined
19 Jan 2008
Messages
7,751
Finsbury Park - Stevenage.

19 mins on a fast via Welwyn
37 mins on a stopper via Welwyn
51 mins via Hertford North.

Stafford - Crewe

~18 mins direct
43 mins via Stoke on Trent.
 

hexagon789

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Sep 2016
Messages
18,324
Location
Glasgow
Inverness-Edinburgh:

3hrs31mins via Perth and Stirling

4hrs41mins via Aberdeen and Dundee (18 stops)

Not as big a difference as I expected given the extra stops on the service via Aberdeen and how slow the line is around Burntisland.
Glasgow-Inverness:

Via Aviemore - typically 3h22-3h26
Via Aberdeen - 5 hours (the 1439 departure)
 

Warrior2852

Member
Joined
27 Oct 2018
Messages
318
Leeds to Sheffield is a bit of a mixed bag. Fast via Barnsley; slow via Barnsley; and slow via Moorthorpe (all Northern); and fast via Wakefield Westgate (CrossCountry). Then there was the old once-a-day service via Huddersfield, which had the false destination of Dodworth on the screens at Leeds.
Throw in as well 2 Northern stoppers via Doncaster (the same route as a lot of the CrossCountry fasts), though that does involve a change.
 

class 9

Member
Joined
18 Nov 2010
Messages
1,078
Throw in as well 2 Northern stoppers via Doncaster (the same route as a lot of the CrossCountry fasts), though that does involve a change.
There are 3 XC services that go Leeds-Doncaster-Sheffield on Sunday mornings(54 mins), also during the week the last XC service of the day goes Sheffield - Doncaster(via Broughton Lane) - Leeds,1h 06.
 

61653 HTAFC

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Dec 2012
Messages
19,364
Location
Yorkshire
Throw in as well 2 Northern stoppers via Doncaster (the same route as a lot of the CrossCountry fasts), though that does involve a change.
Fares are higher via Doncaster though, as I found out years ago on a St Pancras service that ran that way.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top