(Trivia) Examples of splits and joins

[D6975]

I am not aware of any. In the new timetable the 1L60 19:20 Waterloo to Exeter leaves WAT with three units, one is datached at Salisbury and a second at Yeovil Jn, but it only goes to a single destination.

Back in 2010 the third unit detached at Salisbury used to go to Bristol, I travelled on it once all the way from Waterloo (the fare was ridiculously cheap at the time compared to PAD-BRI)

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Back in 2010 the third unit detached at Salisbury used to go to Bristol

That's correct, the 1220 was 6 to Ex/3 to Bristol Temple Meads (BRI) for a time.

Loathe to wander OT, but just to say as the service pattern was tweaked here and there over the years.

A number of unit diagram changes took place, and with the passage of time I can't recall the sequence of events.

The diagram that was designed to get the allocated exam unit back to depot at a specific time each night did itself change in detail on occasions, even being part of a shunt move involving three units in Clapham Yard between the peaks - a part of the plan that wasn't done lightly, due to the risk of disrupting said diagram - but the nature of the timetable/diagram working at the time, left no other cost effective option.

Sorry for veering OT.

 

[wimbledonpete]

M-F the 08.35 from Ramsgate to Charing Cross via Folkestone gets to Ashford at 08.51 and waits for another portion from Faversham via Ramsgate and Canterbury to arrive at 08.56 before coupling up and leaving at 09.00.

The 09.41 from Ashford to St Pancras is formed of the rear six coaches of a 12 coach ECS from STP that arrives at 0926 - the front six detach and scuttle off to the sidings allowing another six coaches from the Canterbury line to couple up to the (now front) six at around 09.35.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Split at Whitland for serving both Pembroke and Milford from one service from Manchester.

Realtime Trains | 1430 Manchester Piccadilly to Milford Haven and Pembroke Dock | 22/12/2024

Real-time train running information for 1430 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to Milford Haven and Pembroke Dock on 22/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[AndyNLondon]

Regular services between London Victoria and Bognor/Portsmouth split/join at Horsham e.g.

Realtime Trains | 1C20 1005 London Victoria to Portsmouth Harbour | 18/12/2024

Real-time train running information for 1C20 1005 departure from London Victoria to Portsmouth Harbour on 18/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

A possible oddity with these London to Bognor Regis/Portsmouth services is that after they split at Horsham, both portions then call at Barnham. I've had a fun "are we in the right bit of this train" moment on one of those: 12 carriages from Victoria, front 4 to Portsmouth and rear 8 to Bognor, and we were going to Arundel which has short platforms. So we needed to be in the front half of the rear (Bognor) portion, i.e. in the middle third of the train when boarding at Victoria.

 

[D6130]

A possible oddity with these London to Bognor Regis/Portsmouth services is that after they split at Horsham, both portions then call at Barnham. I've had a fun "are we in the right bit of this train" moment on one of those: 12 carriages from Victoria, front 4 to Portsmouth and rear 8 to Bognor, and we were going to Arundel which has short platforms. So we needed to be in the front half of the rear (Bognor) portion, i.e. in the middle third of the train when boarding at Victoria.

Why do those trains now divide at Horsham instead of at Barnham, where they always used to traditionally?

 

[Magdalia]

Why do those trains now divide at Horsham instead of at Barnham, where they always used to traditionally?

The Portsmouth portions are non-stop between Horsham and Barnham, only the Bognor portions call at the Arun Valley stations.

 

[RailWonderer]

The Liverpool Norwich still splits and joins in service. The rear half detaches at Nottingham and the front half continues to Norwich but only at certain hours of the day.

Realtime Trains | 1051 Liverpool Lime Street to Norwich | 10/01/2025

Real-time train running information for 1051 departure from Liverpool Lime Street to Norwich on 10/01/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[The exile]

There are a few GWR local services and Cardiff-Portsmouth services which add or detach portions at Bristol Temple Meads. Confusingly they also reverse there so which is front and back portion is not obvious.

Sticking with Temple Meads, the ecs for XC’s 08.00 Manchester and 08.12 Paignton departures arrives coupled and is split “at platform”. As a result, both departures are shown as Platform 4, though 90% of the Manchester train is on 3. Cue someone (nearly) boarding the wrong train (nearly) every morning.

 

[GW43125]

Sticking with Temple Meads, the ecs for XC’s 08.00 Manchester and 08.12 Paignton departures arrives coupled and is split “at platform”. As a result, both departures are shown as Platform 4, though 90% of the Manchester train is on 3. Cue someone (nearly) boarding the wrong train (nearly) every morning.

EMR are exceptionally good at Calling a Sheffield and Nottingham (which depart 3 minutes apart) on the same platform at the same time with no real indication that the Sheffield train is outside...

 

[Busman]

A question about splitting services ...

I'll use an example of one I use well on a daily basis, the Caterham to Tattenham Corner service at Purley.

What I am interested in is this, if either the Caterham / Tattenham Corner unit has an operational failure on the respective branch lines towards London does the single unit of the other branch continue to London or does it get cancelled as well?

Credit to Southern because the very fact I'm asking this question is that it hasn't happened once over the last 8 years I've been using it. And that includes a number of Saturday's too.

 

[mm333]

I noticed today that Leeds has its only 2 destination service. The 1611 southbound XC splits at Gloucester with one portion going to Plymouth and one going to Cardiff.

XC often split at Bristol Temple Meads with one half going south-east and one half going no further.

 

[NSE]

A question about splitting services ...

I'll use an example of one I use well on a daily basis, the Caterham to Tattenham Corner service at Purley.

What I am interested in is this, if either the Caterham / Tattenham Corner unit has an operational failure on the respective branch lines towards London does the single unit of the other branch continue to London or does it get cancelled as well?

Credit to Southern because the very fact I'm asking this question is that it hasn't happened once over the last 8 years I've been using it. And that includes a number of Saturday's too.

Every effort will be made to get a level of service run. So if it’s 4 cars vice 8, that’ll still run. Unless, using Purley as an example, it’s the front unit that arrives off the Caterham branch that promptly fails and then blocks the healthy Tattenham one from moving, then you’re sort of knackered regardless.

 

[Busman]

A question about splitting services ...

I'll use an example of one I use well on a daily basis, the Caterham to Tattenham Corner service at Purley.

What I am interested in is this, if either the Caterham / Tattenham Corner unit has an operational failure on the respective branch lines towards London does the single unit of the other branch continue to London or does it get cancelled as well?

Credit to Southern because the very fact I'm asking this question is that it hasn't happened once over the last 8 years I've been using it. And that includes a number of Saturday's too.

The irony of the above question earlier today weirdly semi-backed up what happens.

The 23:40 from London Bridge was only 5 carriages (usually 10 - 5 to Tattenham Corner and 5 to Caterham, split at Purley), however, the usual 10 was only 5 as stated above but the automated PA system stated front 5 to Caterham / rear 5 to Tattenham Corner.

Turns out the single 5 units is only running as far as Purley irrespective of where this unit would have originally ended.

So, bizarrely, after the original question asking something that hasn't happened to me for 8 years finally happens on the day I ask the question.

Very bizarre.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jan 2025 ==

The irony of the above question earlier today weirdly semi-backed up what happens.

The 23:40 from London Bridge was only 5 carriages (usually 10 - 5 to Tattenham Corner and 5 to Caterham, split at Purley), however, the usual 10 was only 5 as stated above but the automated PA system stated front 5 to Caterham / rear 5 to Tattenham Corner.

Turns out the single 5 units is only running as far as Purley irrespective of where this unit would have originally ended.

So, bizarrely, after the original question asking something that hasn't happened to me for 8 years finally happens on the day I ask the question.

Very bizarre.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jan 2025 ==

The irony of the above question earlier today weirdly semi-backed up what happens.

The 23:40 from London Bridge was only 5 carriages (usually 10 - 5 to Tattenham Corner and 5 to Caterham, split at Purley), however, the usual 10 was only 5 as stated above but the automated PA system stated front 5 to Caterham / rear 5 to Tattenham Corner.

Turns out the single 5 units is only running as far as Purley irrespective of where this unit would have originally ended.

So, bizarrely, after the original question asking something that hasn't happened to me for 8 years finally happens on the day I ask the question.

Very bizarre.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Jan 2025 ==

Although I should add, the above is the opposite of the original question I was asking.

Thanks to member NSE for the original explanation.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Realtime Trains | 1W14 0649 Swansea and Swansea to Manchester Piccadilly | 24/01/2025

Real-time train running information for 1W14 0649 departure from Swansea and Swansea to Manchester Piccadilly on 24/01/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Comes from Swansea and... Swansea!

 

[m0ffy]

Do LNR services still split at Northampton, sending one train towards Birmingham New Street and another up the Trent Valley to Crewe?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It's going back over ten years now so my memory is a little foggy, but I'm pretty sure I used a Southern service which split three ways in around 2012/13. Can't recall exactly where the splits happened but I was travelling to Hove (then Brighton on the shuttle) and needed to be in the correct portion of the 12-car unit from Victoria. Think the portion I needed was for Littlehampton, but can't recall where the other portions went- one may have been Eastbourne.

On the question of services that join and then split again en-route, I think that there has in the past been services on the Cambrian that joined at Shrewsbury (portions from Chester and Birmingham) then split again at Machynlleth (for Aberystwyth and Pwllheli). I think this was in Arriva days.

 

[NSE]

To my knowledge (which is pretty good with Southern operations), the only three way splitters were Victoria to Redhill, which then split into Reigate/Tonbridge/Horsham. The only other one that is sort of a three way split, was the Victoria to Littlehampton and Ore, which split at Haywards Heath, but then during the evening peak (and possibly just late at night) dropped off four coaches at Eastbourne. So if you were going to Hove, you may have to have been in the front or rear four. Bit more tricky when you wanted Ore and you had to be in 5,6,7 & 8 as 1-4 were dropped at Eastbourne and 9-12 carried on to Littlehampton.

I wouldn’t be surprised to know something similar existed where 12 coaches went to Haywards Heath, four came off for a run to the East Coastway, four went fast to Brighton and four carried on via Hove. An example, but something like that could have easily existed near the end of service only a Friday or something.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

To my knowledge (which is pretty good with Southern operations), the only three way splitters were Victoria to Redhill, which then split into Reigate/Tonbridge/Horsham. The only other one that is sort of a three way split, was the Victoria to Littlehampton and Ore, which split at Haywards Heath, but then during the evening peak (and possibly just late at night) dropped off four coaches at Eastbourne. So if you were going to Hove, you may have to have been in the front or rear four. Bit more tricky when you wanted Ore and you had to be in 5,6,7 & 8 as 1-4 were dropped at Eastbourne and 9-12 carried on to Littlehampton.

I wouldn’t be surprised to know something similar existed where 12 coaches went to Haywards Heath, four came off for a run to the East Coastway, four went fast to Brighton and four carried on via Hove. An example, but something like that could have easily existed near the end of service only a Friday or something.

Thanks- as I said, my memory is somewhat hazy. It was an evening peak service, so it was probably Littlehampton/Eastbourne/Ore- so not a true 3-way split, just one of the portions dropped off at Eastbourne. The split being at Haywards Heath definitely rings a bell.

 

[Deepgreen]

When I used to commute via Redhill, I often caught a train that split into three there - with Tonbridge, Gatwick and Reigate portions. It no longer runs.

 

[WAB]

Realtime Trains | 1W14 0649 Swansea and Swansea to Manchester Piccadilly | 24/01/2025

Real-time train running information for 1W14 0649 departure from Swansea and Swansea to Manchester Piccadilly on 24/01/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Comes from Swansea and... Swansea!

Each portion arrives on different platforms at Cardiff Central, so I have my doubts that this train actually joins…

 

[pokemonsuper9]

An example of the data being broken is this one just spotted in the RTT thread:

Realtime Trains | 0828 London Paddington to London Paddington | 27/04/2025

Real-time train running information for 0828 departure from London Paddington to London Paddington on 27/04/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Carmarthen and London Paddington to London Paddington