Trivia; do trains ever not make it up the hill?

[cf111]

Iv done my share of runs up the highland mainline and wondered on more than 1 occasion if Id make it. Of course a number of facters will have been at work here but 1 of said facters is without a doubt the totally unsuitable 170s. Its an experience I wouldnt recommend esp in winter!

I was on a southbound HST in the depths of winter which had a power car fail at Perth(ish) and all I could think was how glad I was that it didn't fail earlier on in the journey!
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Think the old trams used sand to get a grip on slimy rails. Are there any instances of trains carrring sand just to help them through any known and troublesome slippery bits?

I think most, if not all, traction used on the national network carries sand. Some units will apply sand automatically if a high enough brake setting is applied but it can be applied by the driver pressing a button in the cab to assist with low adhesion if need be.

 

[CC 72100]

I was on a HST back in February that ground to a halt between Exeter St Davids and Exeter Central during the diversions via Yeovil Pen Mill. We were there for about an hour while a fitter managed to get enough power out of the faulty power car to make it into the platform.

It was originally announced as 'waiting for a platform' but I was pretty sure that the way we stopped and where we had stopped was a lot more unsolicited than waiting for a platform would be!

 

[dk1]

1990s launch of 158s out of Norwich all went pretty smoothly until leaf fall. Worst that springs to mind was the 06:51 Norwich-Birmingham which only stopped Thetford & was due into Peterborough at 08:09. The train departed right time & eventually arrived & terminated at Wymondham, a mere 10 miles into the journey, at 08:05!! It also highlighted the problem of mulch build up on wheels & how trains can disapear from the signalling panel. To this day trains operate on an extended block from Trowse to Wymondham during this period.

 

[Whistler40145]

I remember reading about a Class 37/4 on a Pathfinder Tour that took well over an hour from Barnsley to Penistone because of greasy rails, it was certainly slipping.

 

[ilkestonian]

This clip is a prime example of "a train not making it up the hill"; eventually a diesel was attached to the rear to get it moving.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NObojbTXiaY
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Think the old trams used sand to get a grip on slimy rails. Are there any instances of trains carrring sand just to help them through any known and troublesome slippery bits?

Most locos and some units have air or gravity sanding arrangements to deposit sand ahead of the wheels, and most steam charters seem to also carry bags of sand, which can be deposited by hand on the rails where the loco has slipped to a halt.

I was on one such trip a few years ago where this happened near Buxton on a very wet morning.

Two videos of it, the first being here (not mine)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y31MCqRROHI

 

[Whistler40145]

No doubt on the first steam train there'd be some rather red faces with both Network Rail and West Coast Railways. I would've been rather puzzled as to why with the inclement weather in the Parkestone area why the Class 33 wasn't on the rear of the train from the start!

 

[ilkestonian]

No doubt on the first steam train there'd be some rather red faces with both Network Rail and West Coast Railways. I would've been rather puzzled as to why with the inclement weather in the Parkestone area why the Class 33 wasn't on the rear of the train from the start!

I'm pretty sure the plan was to attach the 33 but for some reason the driver allocated to it wasn't available, so it seems they took a chance.

One of the steam footplate crew was passed on 33s so legged it back to pick it up.

 

[Bald Rick]

Didn't a big blue Engine called Gordon get stuck on a hill once?

Had to be pushed up by Edward IIRC.

 

[class 9]

Maltby Colliery used to be bad on a wet rail, also through the loading bunker the railhead would be covered in coal slurry, lost count of the number of times
I had to use my sarnie box to fill with sand to manually apply sand!

 

[sarahj]

Remember being on a pacer from Newcastle to sunderland that got stuck on the reverse curves after the high level bridge in the rain. We had to go back and take a longer and faster run up, and made it second time.

Falmer bank, between Lewes and Falmer can be a fun one in the damp on a 313.

 

[Hornet]

Waiting for a Train at Skelmanthorpe on freezing February morning in 1980, and watching it creeping up from Clayton West for about 30 minutes before it finally arrived at the Platform. Once on the Train, we continued on towards Shepley, quite literally at a snails pace.

Also in the West Highlands the Class 37 hauled Sleeper with an ETHEL taking two attempts to round Horseshoe Curve. We arrived at Fort William over 2 hours 30 minutes late.

 

[Kite159]

Departing Grateley heading towards Salisbury can produce a bit of slip when its very wet due to the hill start

 

[Chrisgr31]

The old Thumper diesels used to get stuck fairly regularly in the leaffall season especially leaving Edenbridge heading north and Eridge heading south.

 

[Parallel]

The gradient at Dingle Road can cause some issues on the Penarth line. If a single 142/143 is operating, it has been known for the train to skip Dingle Road on the towards Penarth direction (dropping any passengers off on the return to Cardiff).

 

[ComUtoR]

I've been on a 319 which needed a push to help it up from City Thameslink to Blackfriars. One traction motor had failed.

There is a standing instruction that they are not allowed to attempt it if they are on half power and just a 4 car.

Even with both motors working it still has problems and you often need notch 4 all the way.

Many many thanks to the Signaler who allowed me to divert a train based on pure gut instinct that it wouldn't make a gradient (Vic box iirc)

 

[RichardN]

There is a standing instruction that they are not allowed to attempt it if they are on half power and just a 4 car.

Even with both motors working it still has problems and you often need notch 4 all the way.

Many many thanks to the Signaler who allowed me to divert a train based on pure gut instinct that it wouldn't make a gradient (Vic box iirc)

Don't know why they attempted it then. This was years back. Had two goes then got a push...

 

[ScotrailINV]

If they lose power on an engine on the way north - not an unusual problem - then that's the service cancelled at Perth, they can't go on the HML with only two. Thankfully I've never been on one that's conked out north of Perth, but I imagine it couldn't get up the hill. They're not exactly speedy even with all three going.

A few years ago ScotRail used to run an early morning return commuter service from Inverness - Aviemore that was booked as a single 158.

The one time I used it the engine in the second carriage conked out at Moy and the driver spent 5-10 minutes trying to restart it. In the end ScotRail control decided to cancel the service and run the unit back to Inverness where we were all put in taxi's down the road. The journey takes around 15 minutes normally but we took almost an hour to limp back - the incline after the Culloden viaduct was at no more than walking pace at points. Certainly wouldn't have liked to have been south of Slochd etc with it happening.

 

[scottishchris]

I remember coming down the ECML in an HST from Newcastle to Edinburgh during a blockade so we were re-routed via Carlisle and Carstairs.
Some where between the Toon and Carlisle, we felt a big judder and saw a strange film of oil coating the carriage windows.
Didn't think much of it until we started climbing (Shap, Beattock, can never remember which one's which!) and when I say climbing, I mean crawling up! Cue a few more attempts that just ended up with the brakes coming off and the traction motors not even trying to make the effort to push us forward! Don't blame them, personally!
Free sandwiches, soft drinks and a bash behind a 67 that day. To make matters worse, we were stuck there a good few hours blocking the down WCML while there was an engineering possession on the entire ECML from Newcastle to Edinburgh. Must've been a few delay repay claims that day! At least it was a Sunday.

 

[12CSVT]

I've been on a 319 which needed a push to help it up from City Thameslink to Blackfriars. One traction motor had failed.

Happened hundreds of times over the years, probably at least once a month during the first few years that the 319s were in service.

 

[bunnahabhain]

I've failed on the Robin Hood Line with a rather poorly 156, eventually one gave up completely having left Newstead on the 1 in 50 gradient and the other kept overheating and cutting power, we probably came to a complete stand three or four times before we were failed and had to be rescued by a 153 in rear.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

I was once on a 170 with one engine out which failed to get up Lickey. We were eventually detrained at Bromsgrove and told to await the next service. Which duly failed to call. Dear old Central Trains...

 

[HSTfan!!!]

Ah the lickey incline, even with an empty freight it can feel a bit touch and go, even if you get a run up with it you're crawling a touch under 25mph by the top usually, not much fun from a standing start mind. Coming down can be quite tricky too as well if Gloucester are putting you in at Stoke works. Camp Hill can be quite tricky with a loaded freight if they stop you to let a voyager cross over or something.

 

[Deepgreen]

By contrast, but related, for a spectacular effort on the climb of Weymouth bank by 'Tangmere' unassisted with 11 coaches (it was supposed to be banked by a 37 diesel which failed and the decision was taken to attempt the bank with steam only) look on You-Tube for something along the lines of "Tangmere Storms Upwey". A superb example of a successful climb with around half the rostered power on a 1 in 50 climb. If it had not been a dry summer's day, it probably would not have been attempted!

 

[sprinterguy]

Remember being on a pacer from Newcastle to sunderland that got stuck on the reverse curves after the high level bridge in the rain. We had to go back and take a longer and faster run up, and made it second time.

I've known that to happen in the dry when the Pacer has been heavily loaded, so I have a feeling that it's not an unusual occurrence for the drivers up there.

 

[3141]

By contrast, but related, for a spectacular effort on the climb of Weymouth bank by 'Tangmere'.... QUOTE]

I recall there was also an occasion a few winters back when a class 444 which was scheduled to stop at Upwey could not get up the bank from there. The driver got permission to return to Weymouth and make another attempt without the Upwey stop, which was successful, and much appreciated by the passengers.

 

[gazthomas]

West Coast Railways are experts in this on steam yours, especially to Blaenau Ffestiniog but elsewhere too, often due to too mucb weight for the given steam loco

 

[GM228]

I'm curious do TGAs (Traction Gel Applicators) have any noticeable benefit? Have heard mixed views on them!

 

[Gareth Marston]

The Leyland Railbus prototype failed on Talerddig bank and BR top brass hushed it up but the Cambrian never saw any Pacer derivatives. According to legend this was 89C's finest day as the unit was stabled at Machynlleth the preceding night and had a nocturnal visit after the Llew Coch Red Lion closed. A " top link" driver from steam days was alleged to never need to buy his own drinks for a while afterward anyway.

 

[Pigeon]

I remember being on the GW150 special which conked out half way up Dainton due to dirty fires in both locos and failed to get going again without assistance. I remember how the cheers from the watchers at the far end of the tunnel when it finally emerged into their view turned to boos when the diesel on the back appeared...

D200 on the Penzance Fryer made it OK as I remember, but had us a bit worried on Rattery with wheelslip on very greasy rails.

The already mentioned Lickey Incline has had it's share.

One from 'recent' memory was in 1991, the leading loco on a Gloucester - Bescot Speedlink service came to a standstill on the incline. 37197 was banking said train, but couldn't could the weight of the train, which rolled back down the incline and 37197 subsequently derailed on the catch-points.

Found a video recorded shortly subsequent to the derailment here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z5Qc-ZPgXY

And so far as the Lickey incline itself is concerned, it certainly used to tax a few loco hauled services and frieghts; I recall once being on a well loaded (and unbanked) 47/4 hauled service to Birmingham which, despite taking a run at it, had been reduced to somewhere around 15mph by the time we were just under halfway up.

The old first-generation DMUs used to absolutely groan up it. Occasionally you would get a really good one that was able to rev out in first and the driver might be tempted to go for second. Not necessarily a good idea though as if he wasn't snappy it would lose too much speed to take second before he got it in, and if he was snappy it might get stuck and not go into gear at all... If one did come to a halt it found getting going again really difficult. Needing a push was not unknown.

Didn't a big blue Engine called Gordon get stuck on a hill once?

Had to be pushed up by Edward IIRC.

That was the Lickey you can even recognise the view in the picture in the book.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Probably a repost, but this HST power car had a hard time climbing up dainton bank

http://youtu.be/M3CJPgn7moo

Again, probably a repost, Western Champion also produced a shower of sparks wheelspinning from a start while running on one engine only

http://youtu.be/r7gjYXQQN_k