Transport Scotland Rail 2014 consultation

[MidnightFlyer]

I'm basing this on a Saturday, but the Edinburgh-Aberdeen hourly 170s didn't seem too busy during the day, neither did the Dundee stopper from Edinburgh. Having said that, the 16xx Dundee stopper was looking to be full and standing from what I saw, as was the Dunblane 158.

 

[Blindtraveler]

the dundee stoppers can often be busy and the aberdeens often leav Edinburgh quiet but are carrying good loadings north of DEE. Have at other times seen these busy with them being fast through Fife.

Historically when the ABD services were not fast to/from Haymarket and Loochers, overcrouding was a huge problem and saw many complaints which, unless a people swallowing 6 or 8 car train was put on many services is what would happen again.

Also cant see TS taking the retrograde step of slowwing ABD express workings down again after totally recasting the Fife, Dundee and Aberdeen timetable and if this was the case then pacs who use XC/EC for intermediate stops between DEE and HYM would be changing trains more often.

 

[tbtc]

oo what a thought. In response to your
earlier post on ABD loadings I agree with you and think the shuving of an HST load of pacs onto a single 170 complete with eggy smelling toilet would be the best advert for NX/Megabus ever known!

I thought it was only XC Voyagers that people complained about smelly toilets on.

Is there a sliding scale? Do HSTs have more fragrant ones?

 

[marks87]

I thought it was only XC Voyagers that people complained about smelly toilets on.

Is there a sliding scale? Do HSTs have more fragrant ones?

Not anymore; not since Valentas were done away with

 

[Blindtraveler]

::
a problem which I have only ever noticed on Scotrail units but a sulferus eggy smell is often noted when the flush button is pushed. I have brought this to the attention of0customer relations but, unusually for QR not heard from them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
voyagers stil win hands down though!

 

[tbtc]

Not anymore; not since Valentas were done away with

::
a problem which I have only ever noticed on Scotrail units but a sulferus eggy smell is often noted when the flush button is pushed. I have brought this to the attention of0customer relations but, unusually for QR not heard from them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
voyagers stil win hands down though!

Fair enough.

As I've said on this thread, if it means replacing HSTs with single 170s then its A Bad Thing. If it means longer average train lengths on Aberdeen/Inverness services to/from the Central Belt then maybe its the way forward (rather than single 170s with an occasional HST)

 

[Blindtraveler]

sR could do no worse than take any displaced HSTs if they ever come up anyway

 

[tbtc]

sR could do no worse than take any displaced HSTs if they ever come up anyway

Not suited to the stop/start nature really, nothing near 125 mph track either.

 

[Blindtraveler]

be ok on aberdeens, inverness work but other than that I agree

 

[MidnightFlyer]

It just doesn't seem like a resourceful use of stock though...

 

[marks87]

Even though HSTs might be overkill, wouldn't there be scope for InterCity-standard units doing an Aberdeen-Edinburgh or even Aberdeen-Newcastle express run, with the Dundee-Edinburgh stoppers then starting back at Inverurie.

So:

1tph Aberdeen-Arbroath-Dundee-Leuchars-Haymarket-Edinburgh(-Berwick-Newcastle) (IC stock)
1tph Inverurie-Dyce-Aberdeen-(Portlethen-Stonehaven-Laurencekirk)-Montrose-Arbroath-(Carnoustie)-Dundee-(then current stopper to Edinburgh) (170s)
1tph Aberdeen-Glasgow QS (as current service) (170s)

That would also increase the Aberdeen-Dundee frequency to 3tph.

 

[Blindtraveler]

with a 6 coach HST formation running a 2 hourly or even hourly run up the HML AND AFTER perth running vertually non stop to the termini with a call at Stirling on Glasgow workings.

Ofcourse, if the DFT said now or in the next few years that the majoritty of sprinters must be cascaded elsewhere they could refurb MK2 stock for such workings, even if its a stopgap.
This then allows 170s to cascade and solves the capacity issues that wil happen the moment EC services0start to terminate at EDB

 

[anthony263]

Osbourne has offered £50 million to the scotish governement for the sleeper service it seems.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-15933988

If they did order brand new carriages for the service then perhaps a add on could be made for the Night Riviera sleeper.

 

[PhilipW]

£50 million, I think

 

[Aictos]

So the Scots have until 31st December to reach a deal with Westminister in order to place a order to replace the existing rolling stock for the sleepers....

Hmmm, it would be beneficial I think if a large order was placed at the same time to do the same for the Great Western - kills two birds with one stone so to speak.

 

[Blindtraveler]

agreed but being totally selfish here I hope theres no beggering about and this chance is taken. Is it, I wonder a move to help out bombardia if the deal is struck?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I'll have to continue to be vague about the details of my ideas, but you'll see them soon. The article has been accepted for urgent publication. I will advise you of the magazine and issue once confirmed, but it should be within the next month or so.

 

[LE Greys]

A suggestion in the Railway Magazine's Practice and Performance section seemed interesting. Run XC's Voyagers into Queen Street via the E&G rather than sending them through Carstairs. It would allow better use of the Carstairs route (perhaps for a service to Carlisle calling at Lockerbie) and would present no problem for platform length, since a single Voyager fits into Queen Street fine, although two would present a problem. It might have to wait for electrification, but ought to work.

 

[shinkansen1966]

In his autumn statement, Mr Osborne just referred to maintaining overnight services north of the border.

Perhaps the Caledonian Sleepers will be separately franchised with London DfT being financial responsibility, not Edinburgh's Transport for Scotland.

 

[Blindtraveler]

could be wputting them back into whoever gets WCML IC? hypothetically speeking this would work if VT got it with an opperating bass in Glasgow and staff transfering.

 

[tbtc]

In his autumn statement, Mr Osborne just referred to maintaining overnight services north of the border

It does seem like a bit of a "luxury" to be spending so much money on, in the circumstances.

 

[matchmaker]

So the Scots have until 31st December to reach a deal with Westminister in order to place a order to replace the existing rolling stock for the sleepers....

Hmmm, it would be beneficial I think if a large order was placed at the same time to do the same for the Great Western - kills two birds with one stone so to speak.

So what form would this new sleeper stock take?

 

[Aictos]

So what form would this new sleeper stock take?

It has to be something which vastly improves the quality of the sleeper, something which offers something that a Travel Lodge can't apart from the obvious!

Something along the lines of NightStar version 2 might do the trick but scaled down.

This is a interesting article here on what could have been successful over night services between the UK and Europe:

 

[Blindtraveler]

wel if you want something travelodge cant do then make no changes as we already have clean cabbins and nice staff!
Other than that, id hazzard a guess that single cabbins, plugs, wifi, in room entertainment with maybe TV and radio and individual working air conditioning would be a start

 

[Aictos]

wel if you want something travelodge cant do then make no changes as we already have clean cabbins and nice staff!
Other than that, id hazzard a guess that single cabbins, plugs, wifi, in room entertainment with maybe TV and radio and individual working air conditioning would be a start

It's just a pity the UK is restricted to a smaller loading gauge then the rest of Europe such as Germany, France, Belgium, Netherlands etc...

If this wasn't a problem, then we might have seen Nightstar on Scottish Sleeper services with a specification similar to what you have mentioned including showers and ensuite bathrooms!

Indeed the City Night Line sleeper trains as used in Europe would easily match and provide a better experience then currently provided - see here for a brief about them:

http://www.seat61.com/citynightline.htm

Of course, there's nothing wrong with the service provided by the staff.

 

[HSTEd]

Well if the beds in the sleeper could be pursuaded to fold away I could potentially see them doing Daylight relief duties as well as the sleeper runs, which would increase the income the train could generate substantially.

 

[Aictos]

Well if the beds in the sleeper could be pursuaded to fold away I could potentially see them doing Daylight relief duties as well as the sleeper runs, which would increase the income the train could generate substantially.

The sleeper trains as used in Europe can and do this already,

Have a gander at the link that I've posted.....

 

[Blindtraveler]

thats an interesting link there. I think maybe the last cupple of pages of this thread plus the do sleapers make money one would do wel to be murged into a new thread as the issue aint gunna go away0now this cash is on the table and I really do wonder if the future of the caly wil be decided before the year is dead.

 

[WatcherZero]

Orient Express style carriages too much daydreaming?

seems to have gone downhill.

 

[LE Greys]

They weren't all like that. My understanding is that there was a "hard" class at the back of the train made up of six-berth couchettes like the lower one, and there were quite a few passengers with no berth at all, just a seat.