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Transpennine woes and a moan...

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Segedunum

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On the 2014 Leeds to Liverpool where it took a while for someone to notice the conductor was stuck in Liverpool.

Departed 30 minutes late after an on-duty conductor travelling as a passenger offered to take over the service. Hats off to them.

I suppose at least it wasn't cancelled...
 
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Matt_pool

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Another festival of short forms on TPE today.

One wonders what's happened to all those new trains the taxpayer has subsidised.
When I got the train into Liverpool yesterday lunch time there were three Nova 1's parked up in Edge Hill sidings.

In fact, most mornings through the week when I get the train into Liverpool to go to work there's at least one or two Nova 1's in Edge Hill sidings!
 

DanNCL

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When I got the train into Liverpool yesterday lunch time there were three Nova 1's parked up in Edge Hill sidings.

In fact, most mornings through the week when I get the train into Liverpool to go to work there's at least one or two Nova 1's in Edge Hill sidings!
Same goes for Heaton on a daily basis too.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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The journey planners, and RTT, all say the Liverpool-Newcastle services tomorrow (Nov 8) go no further than Stalybridge.
Is that because of engineering works or industrial action or just TPE being perverse?
Piccadilly-Hull (acting as the Huddersfield stopper) and Victoria-York services do appear to be operating.
 

Fokx

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The journey planners, and RTT, all say the Liverpool-Newcastle services tomorrow (Nov 8) go no further than Stalybridge.
Is that because of engineering works or industrial action or just TPE being perverse?
Piccadilly-Hull (acting as the Huddersfield stopper) and Victoria-York services do appear to be operating.
Reduced service as per the crew plan.

Normal service resumes Wednesday, although there may be additional trains such as today.
 

trainophile

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What's with all the "please be aware" and "please be advised" in the TPE replies on Twitter? Sounds really unfriendly and authoritarian. What's wrong with "I can advise" or "I can confirm"?
 

swaldman

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What's with all the "please be aware" and "please be advised" in the TPE replies on Twitter? Sounds really unfriendly and authoritarian. What's wrong with "I can advise" or "I can confirm"?
If we're going to quibble, then just say the thing without any three-word precursor! There's no additional meaning...
 

peri

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Friday 0807 Hull to Manchester Piccadilly cancelled we're told to take the 0815 Northern to Leeds and connect with the 0908 to Manchester.
I make that a minus 16 minute connection! As far as I can see it's best to wait for the 0908, I've got first class anytime tickets, but it may be a bit snug after two previous cancelled.
 

Watershed

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Friday 0807 Hull to Manchester Piccadilly cancelled we're told to take the 0815 Northern to Leeds and connect with the 0908 to Manchester.
I make that a minus 16 minute connection! As far as I can see it's best to wait for the 0908, I've got first class anytime tickets, but it may be a bit snug after two previous cancelled.
That depends on if the 09:08 (which is just the continuation of the 08:07) is held due to a lack of traincrew.
 

Fokx

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That depends on if the 09:08 (which is just the continuation of the 08:07) is held due to a lack of traincrew.
There is no 0908 from Leeds, It’s an error.

It should state passengers for Leeds board the 0815 Northern for stations to Leeds (0945 from Leeds for Manchester) or board the 0908 from Hull.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Now the 0705 Hull to Manchester is reinstated, do I have to wait till 2200 to be sure?
The 0705 will run as it’s being crewed from a different depot than usual
 

Parallel

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I don’t use TPE regularly as they don’t operate anywhere near me, but I did today and despite reading this thread I was shocked at just how poor the service was. I caught a Manchester Airport bound train at Leeds. It was already a few mins late rolling in and when it did, it was an already full and standing 3 car unit (I think it had come from Redcar Central) and there was no way it was going to cater for the 100s of people on the platform.

I was fortunate because of where the train stopped on the platform which meant I could actually board, but everyone kept piling on, even when the train was clearly at its limit and there was nowhere to move. The guard said he would not be taking the train on if passengers continued to try to board, though this didn’t stop people from trying and we were delayed further. People waiting at stations were unable to board at subsequent stops.

Passengers on board were swearing and understandably frustrated, the guard looked extremely tired and fed up. I’m not quite sure why TPE aren’t at least attempting to resolve the issues - it seems like they’re just shrugging and letting their frontline staff pick up the pieces.

My local route (away from the TPE network) also has occasional severe crowding, but the only other time I’ve ever witnessed anything that bad was when Arriva Trains Wales sent a 2-car 175 from Manchester to Cardiff on a match day! Surely TPE’s offering today can’t be the norm?!
 
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Halwynd

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With all the daily carnage at TPE, the overcrowding, uncertainty and cancellations, I wonder whether any TPE senior manager suggested that now is perhaps not quite the best time to be encouraging even more demand by running 'Club55' promotions for a month?
 

John Luxton

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With all the daily carnage at TPE, the overcrowding, uncertainty and cancellations, I wonder whether any TPE senior manager suggested that now is perhaps not quite the best time to be encouraging even more demand by running 'Club55' promotions for a month?
After returning to the rails last year after many years absence one of the first things I did was take three trips with TPE on Club 55 - had several good days out going to places I had not been to in 30 plus years. Everything went like clockwork.

However, my experiences in the summer when I had a North West Rover for a week - almost nearly every time I planned to use TPE the train either terminated short or didn't run.

I noticed the other day that Club 55 was back and was wondering if I should chance it or not bother.

What happens if they cancel will LNER / Northern let you use tickets on their services? - I don't suppose so.
 

sjpowermac

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After returning to the rails last year after many years absence one of the first things I did was take three trips with TPE on Club 55 - had several good days out going to places I had not been to in 30 plus years. Everything went like clockwork.

However, my experiences in the summer when I had a North West Rover for a week - almost nearly every time I planned to use TPE the train either terminated short or didn't run.

I noticed the other day that Club 55 was back and was wondering if I should chance it or not bother.

What happens if they cancel will LNER / Northern let you use tickets on their services? - I don't suppose so.
TPE have ticket acceptance in place with LNER, Northern and EMR, but there are some exclusions e.g. on LNER “with the exception of services originating or terminating at Aberdeen or Inverness.”

All the details are here:

Contrary to what this thread would have you believe, things seem to be gradually improving on the North Route. Today on the loco hauled trains (admittedly that’s basically a York-Scarborough shuttle) there’s due to be a full service. On the Class 802 Newcastle-Liverpool runs the following are cancelled:

0544 York – Liverpool Cancelled
0854 Liverpool – Newcastle Cancelled 2101 Newcastle – Edinburgh Cancelled

The South Route is the one that’s currently still got a lot of cancellations. All the details are on the link above.

Hope that helps.
 

mike57

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full and standing 3 car unit
This is a regular occurance, even although TPE in theory have sufficient rolling stock to run the full pre covid timetable. There is no way that 3 car units should be running York Leeds Manchester 'fast' services. What with day before cancellations, and then further cancellations/short running most days the service is usuable, as you cannot plan a journey even 24 hours ahead.

Most of the day there are 2tph timetabled before cancellations York - Manchester, and if one of these is 3 car that reduces capacity to 8 coaches per hour, little better than the situation in the early 80s, and then add in cancellations and even with reduced passenger numbers there is not sufficient capacity.

Given that this 'service' is the primary connection between the 3rd & 4th* largest Engish cities it is not an acceptable situation. (*depending on how you interpret data, the city of Liverpool is no. 4 but the Leeds urban zone is more populous and at no. 4), then add in the problems on the south route.

The problems have been the subject of press coverage over the last few weeks, but I get the feeling that the high ups in TPE dont care. Front line staff are left to sort out a mess not of their making, not just now and then but on a daily basis, and its been going on since May 2018 with a short respite during the Covid lockdown, one (ex)staff member I know socially has jacked it in and gone and done something different, quoting day to day stress of dealing with disgruntled passengers, and I suspect they are not alone. Until TPE have some commercial risk attached to failing to run the required service nothing will change. Some on here will be quick to defend TPE and point out failings from the DfT, but ultimately as a passenger my dealings are with TPE, its not very different from buying a car from a garage, it develops a fault, you take it back to the garage where you bought it, not to a factory somewhere miles away.

I would be interested to see passenger figures for the TPE routes, there must have been a drop, or at least a lower recovery from Covid figures than has been seen elsewhere. People are making other arrangements or in the case of some journeys just not making them.

What is sad is that a case is being made for further route upgrades, but while the existing service is so poor it helps those who would like to can all investment on the basis that existing resources, both in terms of paths and rolling stock are not being used.
 

VauxhallNova

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Until TPE have some commercial risk attached to failing to run the required service nothing will change.

Agree with most of what you've said there.

This is an interesting comment given what others have said, that the root of most staff availability problems dates back to pre-Covid (i.e. the commercial risk era).
 

John Luxton

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TPE have ticket acceptance in place with LNER, Northern and EMR, but there are some exclusions e.g. on LNER “with the exception of services originating or terminating at Aberdeen or Inverness.”

All the details are here:
Thanks for that info I might risk it!
 

class 9

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Some on here will be quick to defend TPE and point out failings from the DfT, but ultimately as a passenger my dealings are with TPE, its not very different from buying a car from a garage, it develops a fault, you take it back to the garage where you bought it, not to a factory somewhere miles away.
I would say the situation is very different from your car analogy, the route cause is the companies can't change anything regarding pay and conditions without permission from the DfT, hence no RD working, passengers are completely unaware of this.
Back to the car analogy, it would be like you dictating to the garage how much the mechanics should be payed.
 

mike57

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I would say the situation is very different from your car analogy, the route cause is the companies can't change anything regarding pay and conditions without permission from the DfT, hence no RD working, passengers are completely unaware of this.
I understand the link, but a lot (most?) passengers do not, and my only recourse when my journey falls apart is to TPE. TPE are remarkably silent on the problem, even although they are seen by most as 'failing'. None of this helps the front line staff who are the ones I feel sorry for, they have been backed into corner by events outside their control, and I can well understand how having to face angry passengers on a daily basis must be wearing.

I think the current arrangements are far too cosy. TPE get paid to deliver a sub standard service, and the DfT can deflect blame onto TPE. Passengers and taxpayers alike are not getting value for money, and there is no incentive for either party to rock the boat, hence the current ongoing situation, which apart from a short period during Covid lockdown has been ongoing since May 2018.

Looking at likely spending cuts going forwards, maybe the Government want to cripple the TPE routes so that they can say 'But there is no demand' and stop all investment, and even cut back operations. Conspiracy theory, maybe, but never say never. I am certain there are those in the Treasury who see the railways as a black hole for money, and a 'waste of money', Serpell Mark 2 anyone.
 

class 9

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Completely agree with your comments, In previous franchise agreements the current situation would invoke considerably financial penalties, which is the only language the likes of First Group understand.
I think there's many senior managers from various TOCs that are eying up positions in GBR (if it ever gets off the ground) hence the silence.
 

VauxhallNova

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I would think that, commercially, TPE are most interested in a financially-beneficial long term contract that allows them to sort out their rolling stock and traincrew issues. Which comes at a significant cost.

What better way to illustrate the "need" for that investment than cancelling many trains and running 3-car formations for the trains that do run.
 

43066

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I think the current arrangements are far too cosy. TPE get paid to deliver a sub standard service, and the DfT can deflect blame onto TPE. Passengers and taxpayers alike are not getting value for money, and there is no incentive for either party to rock the boat, hence the current ongoing situation, which apart from a short period during Covid lockdown has been ongoing since May 2018.

Unfortunately this sums things up very welll. Not only at TPE, of course, but across the wider industry.
 

nr758123

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Contrary to what this thread would have you believe, things seem to be gradually improving on the North Route. Today on the loco hauled trains (admittedly that’s basically a York-Scarborough shuttle) there’s due to be a full service. On the Class 802 Newcastle-Liverpool runs the following are cancelled:

0544 York – Liverpool Cancelled
0854 Liverpool – Newcastle Cancelled 2101 Newcastle – Edinburgh Cancelled
I'm on the North group of routes and I use TPE regularly, if only because of the lack of alternatives.

I can't say I've experienced any improvement, gradual or otherwise. A relatively low number of cancellations in the list published the night before, on a single day (14th November), is not enough to establish a trend.
 

Clarence Yard

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Completely agree with your comments, In previous franchise agreements the current situation would invoke considerably financial penalties, which is the only language the likes of First Group understand.
I think there's many senior managers from various TOCs that are eying up positions in GBR (if it ever gets off the ground) hence the silence.

No, it’s the gagging clause in the NRC. You can only say what the DfT permit you to say.
 

sjpowermac

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I'm on the North group of routes and I use TPE regularly, if only because of the lack of alternatives.

I can't say I've experienced any improvement, gradual or otherwise. A relatively low number of cancellations in the list published the night before, on a single day (14th November), is not enough to establish a trend.
It has been the same for the past couple of weeks. Most days the Scarborough branch has either a full or near to full service, cancellations on the Newcastle to Liverpool route have reduced.

So, for Tuesday 15.11.2022 of the Class 802 operated trains the following are cancelled:

04:26 Newcastle – Liverpool
08:54 Liverpool – Newcastle
21:01 Newcastle – Edinburgh

At the worst of things the cancellations list ran to six pages of A4, it’s now down to two pages on most days. Still some way to go, but I’d say that’s an improvement, wouldn’t you?
 

nr758123

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It has been the same for the past couple of weeks. Most days the Scarborough branch has either a full or near to full service, cancellations on the Newcastle to Liverpool route have reduced.

So, for Tuesday 15.11.2022 of the Class 802 operated trains the following are cancelled:

04:26 Newcastle – Liverpool
08:54 Liverpool – Newcastle
21:01 Newcastle – Edinburgh

At the worst of things the cancellations list ran to six pages of A4, it’s now down to two pages on most days. Still some way to go, but I’d say that’s an improvement, wouldn’t you?
I don't check every day for how long the list of pre-cancellations is, so I wouldn't know how many pages it runs to from one day to the next. I can only go from my own experience as a passenger.

You did, however, prompt me to look at tomorrow's list of cancellations. It's just as well that I did. I use the Huddersfield to Manchester stopping service, and the train I would normally catch is cancelled. So is the one 30' earlier. Out of six trains in the morning peak tomorrow, three are cancelled.

Even TPE would not try to convince me that this represents any sort of improvement.
 

sjpowermac

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I don't check every day for how long the list of pre-cancellations is, so I wouldn't know how many pages it runs to from one day to the next. I can only go from my own experience as a passenger.

You did, however, prompt me to look at tomorrow's list of cancellations. It's just as well that I did. I use the Huddersfield to Manchester stopping service, and the train I would normally catch is cancelled. So is the one 30' earlier. Out of six trains in the morning peak tomorrow, three are cancelled.

Even TPE would not try to convince me that this represents any sort of improvement.
Are you claiming that 2>6?

That’s some seriously strange logic that you are using.

You might not have noticed a reduction in cancellations, but there certainly has been one.
 
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