Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[snowball]

There are further details of the works at Granville Street and Mossley Road in the press release linked in #324.

 

[Stats]

Transpennine and Midland Mainline electrification are to be unpaused.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...pgrades-to-be-unpaused-government-to-announce

Two promised rail upgrades in northern England and the Midlands that were shelved by the government in June, breaking election pledges, are to be restarted, the transport secretary will say on Wednesday.

The electrification of the TransPennine Express route and Midland mainline, which had been described as “vital” elements of a £38bn upgrade to the rail network for the north, were cancelled from Network Rail’s five-year plan in June.

Patrick McLoughlin blamed Network Rail, but it became apparent that his department had been warned a year before the election that the works were in doubt.

The scrapping of the schemes was an embarrassment for the chancellor, George Osborne, in particular, who had promised major transport enhancements as part of a new “northern powerhouse”.

The “unpausing” – with a revised timetable and specification to be announced in Leeds on Wednesday – is carefully timed ahead of the Conservative conference in Manchester next week.

 

[CdBrux]

I love the way that, whilst announcing the projects are being unpaused they still manage to say that they had been scrapped! Do they actually read what they write and realise it's utter misleading crap?

 

[Masbroughlad]

TP line by 2022, MML by 2023 according to BBC News.

Good it is restarting - pity we have to wait even longer. 7 and 8 years respectively seem long times.

How does this fit in with TPE and MML franchise renewals? (and Northern come to that).

Interesting times.....

 

[snowball]

Yet Roger Ford in the current Modern Railways takes a fairly apocalyptic view of the likely effect on much NR's enhancement programme, including these two schemes, of the current reviews.

2022 for TP completion is no later than the dates that were being muttered before the pause.

(Or "paws" as I call it, as in "The Transport Secretary put his paws on the schemes.")

 

[Haydn1971]

Lovely timing just before the conference

Will be interesting to see what the revised timetable of works is

 

[muddythefish]

It's the Tory party conference in Manchester next week - Osborne had to show his Northern Powercut was plugged in again.

Political expediency rules.

I wonder when the "unpausing" will begin - 2025 or 2030 ?

 

[CdBrux]

Anyway it's not that exclusive, it's on the DfT website:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/transpennine-and-midland-mainline-electrification-works-to-resume

•Work on electrification of TransPennine and Midland Mainline to restart
•TransPennine line will deliver faster journeys and more capacity to help deliver a Northern Powerhouse
•Midland Mainline improvements will mean electrification to Kettering and Corby by 2019

Work to electrify TransPennine and Midland Mainline railways will resume under plans announced today, Wednesday 30 September 2015, as part of Sir Peter Hendy’s work to reset Network Rail’s upgrade programme.

Sir Peter Hendy has outlined to the Secretary of State for Transport how work could continue. The Secretary of State has replied to the Chair of Network Rail asking Network Rail to un-pause this work.
•Letters about rail electrification of TransPennine and Midland Mainline routes

Network Rail will work with the Department for Transport (DfT) and Rail North to develop a new plan for electrification of the TransPennine line between Stalybridge and Leeds and on to York and Selby to focus on delivering key passenger benefits as quickly as possible. This is an improvement on the previous plan which only changed the power supply of the trains.

The new plan will deliver faster journey times and significantly more capacity between Manchester, Leeds and York. The upgrade is expected to provide capacity for 6 fast or semi-fast trains per hour, take up to 15 minutes off today’s journey time between Manchester and York and be complete by 2022. When the work is finished, the whole route from Liverpool to Newcastle (via Manchester, Leeds and York) will be fully electrified and journey times will be significantly reduced compared to today’s railway.

Network Rail will also recommence work to electrify Midland Mainline, the vital long-distance corridor which serves the UK’s industrial heartland. Sir Peter Hendy is proposing that line speed and capacity improvement works already in hand are added to, with electrification of the line north of Bedford to Kettering and Corby by 2019 and the line North of Kettering to Leicester, Derby/Nottingham and Sheffield by 2023.

New Northern and TransPennine rail franchise awards will be announced before the end of the year. The new franchises will:
•deliver new train carriages and remove out-dated Pacer trains
•introduce free Wi-Fi on trains
•offer a one-third increase in capacity with 200 additional services on weekdays and Saturdays and 300 more train services on Sundays

The total programme of rail electrification and upgrades will completely transform the railways for passengers in the north and Midlands and help ensure that every part of Britain benefits from a growing economy.

Secretary of State for Transport Patrick McLoughlin said:

“
As a one nation government we are making sure every part of Britain benefits from a growing economy. Connecting up the great cities of the north is at the heart of our plan to build a Northern Powerhouse. This government will see the job through and build a better, faster and more reliable railway for passengers in the north and Midlands.”

Chairman of Network Rail Sir Peter Hendy said:

“The temporary pause in the programme has given us the space to develop a better plan for passengers. People can expect more services and faster journeys. We face some difficult challenges, and there is more work still to do, but the Secretary of State’s decision means we can now move forward with our plans to electrify TransPennine and Midland Mainline”.

Maybe Hendy was asked to prioritise these projects in his review as that has, AFAIK, not yet been published

 

[Haydn1971]

The claim about the previous scheme only changing power source is s bit misleading too
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Hold your horses folks - the DfT announcement doesn't actually say that electrification is back on for TransPeninne, it just reiterates what we already know - in that...

Network Rail will work with the Department for Transport (DfT) and Rail North to develop a new plan for electrification of the TransPennine line between Stalybridge and Leeds and on to York and Selby to focus on delivering key passenger benefits as quickly as possible.

Talk about double speak !

It reads more promising for MML, with commitment to electrify to Corby in this parliament but then pushes the meat of the project into the next government term.

 

[Stats]

Hold your horses folks - the DfT announcement doesn't actually say that electrification is back on for TransPeninne, it just reiterates what we already know - in that...



Talk about double speak !
.

The whole project including detailed planning was paused. Sir Peter Hendy has recommended that full detailed planning should commence immediately and be completed by end of 2017, with electrification commencing early 2018 for completion by 2022. The Secretary of State has accepted the recommendation and requested they are "progressed with some urgency".

 

[WatcherZero]

The letter from NR to the Transport Secretary says they never paused design work on the two schemes despite instruction and requests unpausing construction work.

Also mentions budget saying that wont receive enough money for the work in CP5 and that they are doing everything they can do, by some accounted work shifting into CP6 and so in that budget and possibly reducing other projects, though it leaves hanging the idea that the Government may have to increase NR funding if they want to see the project through.

And Transport Secretarys response:

I recognise that there is more work to do on your overall re-plan and that successful delivery of these projects has some cost implications. As you say, it is right that Network Rail are as ambitious as possible in seeking to meet pressures from within existing resources in the first instance, before making a call for additional public funds

 

[northwichcat]

I see DfT's infographic clearly shows Piccadilly-Guide Bridge is already electrified but implies Piccadilly-Deansgate was done as part of Chat Moss works.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/transportgovuk/21648313699/in/album-72157658873219029/

 

[MancMetro]

I thought the industry thinking was that a more comprehensive upgrade of the line (signalling and linespeed enhancements) was required before wires are put up. Does this announcement imply that an upgrade will not be occurring?

 

[CdBrux]

I thought the industry thinking was that a more comprehensive upgrade of the line (signalling and linespeed enhancements) was required before wires are put up. Does this announcement imply that an upgrade will not be occurring?

To me it implies that upgrade, or at least an improvement vs what is there today, will happen.

 

[Haydn1971]

To me it implies that upgrade, or at least an improvement vs what is there today, will happen.

That's how I've read it - which is sensible

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It's the Tory party conference in Manchester next week - Osborne had to show his Northern Powercut was plugged in again. Political expediency rules. I wonder when the "unpausing" will begin - 2025 or 2030 ?

Well, according to kind Uncle Jeremy, all will be different when his steady hand holds the Socialist tiller in Britain and I am most surprised to see you feel that a Conservative government will be in power in 2025 and 2030.

What about the recently generated euphoria of the Socialist "Brave New World" that will be so overwhelming that we will see the Labour Party as the natural party of power, overwhelmingly endorsed by the electorate, for future eons....or so we are told.

 

[northwichcat]

Well, according to kind Uncle Jeremy, all will be different when his steady hand holds the Socialist tiller in Britain and I am most surprised to see you feel that a Conservative government will be in power in 2025 and 2030.

What about the recently generated euphoria of the Socialist "Brave New World" that will be so overwhelming that we will see the Labour Party as the natural party of power, overwhelmingly endorsed by the electorate, for future eons....or so we are told.

The 'Northern Powerhouse' is a reworked and updated version of The 'Northern Way' which pre-dated David Cameron getting in to Downing Street.

There's really two factors which will determine who will be in power post-2020:
1. How well the Conservatives do in government.
2. How well other parties do in campaigning for votes.

Even if Labour don't do well enough to earn a majority, it may finish up that the Conservatives have less than 50% of seats at the next election and we finish up with a non-Conservative in 10 Downing Street.

 

[ainsworth74]

We already have threads discussing Jeremy Corbyn and his election chances come 2020. This is not one of those threads. Any further posts of such nature are liable for deletion and I would ask that we keep on the topic of Transpennine Electrification.

 

[55z]

Both the Trans Pennine & Midland Main Main electrification schemes have been UNPAUSED today with the former completed by 2022 & the latter 2023 although actual on site work on the TP scheme will not start until 2018. Dept of Transport press release today.

 

[misterredmist]

Halleluljah......at last better late ( years late ) than never, I suppose !

 

[Altfish]

It's the Tory party conference in Manchester next week - Osborne had to show his Northern Powercut was plugged in again.

Political expediency rules.

I wonder when the "unpausing" will begin - 2025 or 2030 ?

Yes, that is the reason for the announcement being made now.

 

[northwichcat]

Yes, that is the reason for the announcement being made now.

You mean the fact the pausing wasn't announced until after the election and then the announcement of proposed revised dates the week before the Conservative party conference isn't just coincide?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The original approval for TP electrification was in November 2011, no doubt after some investigation work and costing by Network Rail.
Nearly 4 years later, we still do not have a design, and the completion dates must still be guesswork.
6tph doesn't seem any more than was originally expected (although NR subsequently found it couldn't support 6tph).
There already was a CP5 plan (independent of electrification) called Leeds-Manchester journey time improvements.
I think we are being sold a late/more costly CP5 plan as an "upgrade" stretching into CP6.
Objective of keeping to narrow CP5 costs achieved (with the overrun pushed into CP6!).
Now we just have to delete a CP6 project to make way for it.

The late start on site (2018) does at least suggest that the NW contractor (still to be appointed) can finish that job and then carry on eastwards with TP.

 

[Viscount702]

The original approval for TP electrification was in November 2011, no doubt after some investigation work and costing by Network Rail.
Nearly 4 years later, we still do not have a design, and the completion dates must still be guesswork.
6tph doesn't seem any more than was originally expected (although NR subsequently found it couldn't support 6tph).
There already was a CP5 plan (independent of electrification) called Leeds-Manchester journey time improvements.
I think we are being sold a late/more costly CP5 plan as an "upgrade" stretching into CP6.
Objective of keeping to narrow CP5 costs achieved (with the overrun pushed into CP6!).
Now we just have to delete a CP6 project to make way for it.

The late start on site (2018) does at least suggest that the NW contractor (still to be appointed) can finish that job and then carry on eastwards with TP.

Totally agree.

I think NR do what they want to do not necessarily what the government wants.

As you say TP electrification was announced in 2011. Four years on nothing apart from maybe 4 bridges between Leeds and York has been done. On the other hand Midland electrification was announced after TP. Unlike TP it is my understanding most bridge work has been completed and electrification work proper was well underway before both were paused.

I infer from this that NR were proposing and expecting Midland to be the next electrification scheme and despite no funding had been working on it and planning for sometime hence the ability to get things underway quickly.
TP wasn't expected and they had to start from scratch which clearly they didn't with any haste.

Under the Northern Hub 6tph were to be provided and that was before electrification was announced. So what has been said is not an improvement on what they were supposed to being doing under the Hub anyway. However because ORR were querying the CP5 budget I believe an essential element of the Hub was dropped to save money because NR said that as TP is to be electrified we don't need to open the old bores at Standedge. We subsequently know that turned out to be untrue and NR now admit to provide the capacity and increase speed they need to do more - what as yet we don't know.

 

[Andyh82]

What is funny is when talking to people on the news, everyone they ask say something along the lines of 'yes it's good news, when I travel now I have to stand and there is no room for luggage, and half the time I can't even get on a train, so it I'm future I can get a seat then I'm all for it...'

Electrification doesn't directly solve any of that, there's nothing to say that any future electric stock won't be cut back to the bear minimum, especially after the infrastructure works will probably be over budget and running late by that point.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Based on the (very brief) news report on 6Music, the target date for Manchester to York going electric is 2022. So I'm expecting that sparks will fly on my regular journey in around 2025...

 

[gimmea50anyday]

They will at least be 4 car which is an improvement on the current 185's, assuming of course we get a networker/electrostar derivative and not 317/321 stock, or anything else 20m in length!

 

[MarkRedon]

In CP4, Network Rail achieved more or less what they said they would do.

In CP5, they are taking on a much more ambitious programme and are clearly hitting serious resource constraints. The fact that so many work-items have not even reached GRIP 3 says that in some parts of the country at least their planning resources are overstretched.

I think they have been shocked at how badly they underestimated the complexity of the Great Western electrification. They have obviously had serious problems in their relationships with contractors - see the problems with the north-western schemes. But on Trans Pennine, the issue is seriously compounded by the questions introduced by a commitment to HS3 / TransNorth and the question of the extent to which that might involve new line-of-route. They cannot afford to waste money on a gold-plated electrification of the existing slow Trans Pennine routes and also divert resources to potential new routes. It is a planning nightmare from which they have yet to emerge.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Under the Northern Hub 6tph were to be provided and that was before electrification was announced. So what has been said is not an improvement on what they were supposed to being doing under the Hub anyway. However because ORR were querying the CP5 budget I believe an essential element of the Hub was dropped to save money because NR said that as TP is to be electrified we don't need to open the old bores at Standedge. We subsequently know that turned out to be untrue and NR now admit to provide the capacity and increase speed they need to do more - what as yet we don't know.

And no mention of "HS3".
We seem to be back to two separate schemes.

The new dates, by the way, fit with the end of the new franchises (starting next April).
So TPE and Northern can forget all about it (for now).
Something for Team Corbyn to worry about.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

They will at least be 4 car which is an improvement on the current 185's, assuming of course we get a networker/electrostar derivative and not 317/321 stock, or anything else 20m in length!

They're both 20m vehicle units. The only 23m EMUs are the Siemens pair - the Class 444 and the Class 380. The Hitachi AT200 for ScotRail will also be 23m and the CrossRail Class 345 units will be 23m but with three pairs of doors per side.