Transdev Blazefield

[SimplyLlama]

The new ADL e400s are due to enter service in January: https://www.transdevbus.co.uk/news/more-than-just-electric-its-elf-tastic/

 

[Deerfold]

Sounds to me that they were throwing distain at the concept of marketing and branding a route

Throwing what?

 

[Andyh82]

Craig Temple the other weeks lambasted North Yorkshire Council for the poor time keeping of his X70 blaming it on the traffic on Wetherby Road, Not strictly correct as one of the Wetherby bound X70s works off an X52 from Otley which hits Harrogate at the start of the evening grid lock and in turn works off an Otley schools service which seems to run very late some days. Hence that X70 can be way late starting. So if Connexions were running the X98 X99 there would no doubt be more crazy interworking by them with negligable dwell time between workings. Also if Wetherby Road is causing such chaos to the X70 it must be affecting the 7. At least with the reduced service their is longer dwell time at Harrogate between a number of workings and IME if a 7 is very late arriving they typcially come up wit a vehilce for the outbound working even if means cancelling a Route 1 working .

Indeed, the idea that if Connexions ran the X98/X99 and they suffered a breakdown at the Leeds end, they’d be able to sub in a replacement quicker than Transdev do is pretty unlikely, particularly if it’s anywhere near school time when all their buses and drivers will be in use

 

[RELL6L]

So you are suggesting the high profile 36 branding that they’ve used for two decades and is widely seen as one of the most successful in the country, should be binned so they can interwork the 36 with the X98/X99 to solve a problem that doesn’t exist?

Indeed not. I only said "If Stagecoach were running the route...". Stagecoach don't do the same level of high profile branding and operational efficiency seems to be higher up the pecking order of priorities than marketing. Nor am I throwing disdain at the concept of marketing and branding a route, the 36 is probably the most marketed and branded route of all and it would be really interesting to know what has been spent over the years on this and how much it has added to the value of the route. There are certainly not many services that justify a 10 minute frequency over a distance such as Harrogate to Leeds alongside a railway option. And Stagecoach aren't running the route, Transdev are, with their perspective it would never happen.

However I don't think it is a 'problem that doesn't exist', reliability and timekeeping on the X98/X99 clearly isn't good, nor can it be efficient with the depot so far off route. It would, in a way, simply be best worked from the Leeds end and without trying to get round on a 2 hour cycle - but that costs more. If not the 36 (and I totally agree not the 36), how about with the 7? From Harrogate 7 to Leeds, X99 round trip, 30 mins break, X98 round trip, 7 to Harrogate? Not ideal - nothing is ideal though!

 

[SCH117X]

The 7 is a long route along some narrowish roads with at least one road that can be a standstill at random intervals and you would end up having to build in long recovery time to guarantee a reliable service. The only way you might get a 30 minute break at Leeds would be to terminate the X98 and X99 at the bus station. If you did that then the more logical soution on most days would be to extend the X99s as 7s to Harrogate. Snag is the the issue of the Great Yorkshire Show where Wetherby-Harrogate can take hours so any interworking would have to abandoned. Maybe diverting to the bus station is what the service needs to incorporate a dwell time rather than the limited dwell times in the turn rounds. The problem is the custom most likely does not financially justify a fifth vehicle which is what would be needed.
The 36 works as its serves a different market due to Leeds railway station being on the southern edge of the city centre so from the north side of the city centre using the 36 is as quick or qudicker once you account for the time to cross the city centre.
The incident at Harrogate bus station was caused by one of the pantographs dropping by itself below double deck bus height so probably a safety measure why they have all been taken out of use until the cause is found. It smashed the upper deck windscreen of the Gemini 3 and reshaped the front of the roof.
The announcement that the ADL e400s are to start entering servcie was made yesterday so that may now be questionable. However, as they are claimed to have a range of 365 miles then maybe there are some 36 rostas that despite the high speed running on the A61 could be worked without requiring use of an overhead charger, or they use two of them on one rosta allowing one Gemini 3 to go for repainting for Keighley rather than two,

 

[LucyP]

Using the 36 is never quicker, unless you are nowhere near a railway station. The bus takes 51 minutes minimum from Harrogate bus station, which is next door to the railway station. The train takes 35 minutes. Leeds bus station isn't in the nicest area if you walk out of the front entrance onto St. Peter's Street. The back entrance takes you to the open-air car park, next to the John Lewis multi-storey. It's a long walk to most of the popular places. It's only really convenient for the parish church, the market and the Playhouse, and those are probably not on many people's agenda.

The bus station and the railway station are about 12 minute steady walk apart (0.6 miles), and the station is more convenient for many more places in Leeds, so even with a walk, the train is much quicker. Not many people will venture past the Corn Exchange towards the bus station, as there is just nothing there.

 

[Deerfold]

Using the 36 is never quicker, unless you are nowhere near a railway station. The bus takes 51 minutes minimum from Harrogate bus station, which is next door to the railway station. The train takes 35 minutes. Leeds bus station isn't in the nicest area if you walk out of the front entrance onto St. Peter's Street. The back entrance takes you to the open-air car park, next to the John Lewis multi-storey. It's a long walk to most of the popular places. It's only really convenient for the parish church, the market and the Playhouse, and those are probably not on many people's agenda.

The bus station and the railway station are about 12 minute steady walk apart (0.6 miles), and the station is more convenient for many more places in Leeds, so even with a walk, the train is much quicker. Not many people will venture past the Corn Exchange towards the bus station, as there is just nothing there.

The bus station in Leeds is not the only stop people get off the 36 at.

Nor is Harrogate bus station the only stop they board at. The further that stop from the station, the longer the journey using rail.

In most two hour periods, there's 3 half hour gaps in the rail service, whist the bus is every 10 minutes for much of the day. Whilst the time spent on the train will always be less than on the bus, the quickest way to Leeds is often not by train.

 

[SCH117X]

Using the 36 is never quicker, unless you are nowhere near a railway station. The bus takes 51 minutes minimum from Harrogate bus station, which is next door to the railway station. The train takes 35 minutes. Leeds bus station isn't in the nicest area if you walk out of the front entrance onto St. Peter's Street. The back entrance takes you to the open-air car park, next to the John Lewis multi-storey. It's a long walk to most of the popular places. It's only really convenient for the parish church, the market and the Playhouse, and those are probably not on many people's agenda.

The bus station and the railway station are about 12 minute steady walk apart (0.6 miles), and the station is more convenient for many more places in Leeds, so even with a walk, the train is much quicker. Not many people will venture past the Corn Exchange towards the bus station, as there is just nothing there.

It certainly is - I have got home from Leeds 20 minutes quicker than if I used the train. Do yourself a favour and accept what other people say and drop your constant anti-Transdev rant.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2024 ==

Posting by Paul Turner on Facebook

Evening folks.

Enviro 400evs - 2213 has made its debut on the 36 this afternoon on a single Harrogate to Ripon trip and back as part of the ongoing proving and commissioning of the fleet. In addition to the two buses working for Enchanticas on Wednesday the current trio has undertaken driver familiarisation. The remainder should be commissioned in early Jan.

eCitaros - we expect a few more delivered before the end of the year leaving the last two for early next year. The first of the Flyer hybrids is complete for approval before the rest are completed.

Repaints - 1858 and 1861 returned to Team Pennine after repaint today. These will be based at Elland for the 502 and 587 primarily. 1860 has returned to York after repaint joining 1871 which entered service a few days ago. 3613 is back at Blackburn after repaint. 3626 is on track to be the first painted for Keighley - it’s under repair after accident damage at Harewood.

Fleet Moves - detail to follow on these but there are some moves being planned over Christmas, some temporary, some permanent following the award of school contracts at Waterloo (six singles) and Idle (two doubles) which start in January.

 

[LucyP]

Deerfold - You live in the Keighley area, yet you comment on services between Harrogate, Wetherby and Leeds a lot. How often do you travel between those destinations? The 36 is rarely every 10 minutes as there are so many cancellations and so many buses running one behind the other. The trains are every 30 minutes between Leeds and Harrogate during the day. Some are Azumas which are far superior to a bus.

No one can save time commuting on the bus from the Harrogate area into Leeds. There are stations at Hornbeam and Pannal which are convenient for the South side of Harrogate. Very few people commute to the intermediate stops between Harrogate and Leeds city centre.

 

[theblackwatch]

The incident at Harrogate bus station was caused by one of the pantographs dropping by itself below double deck bus height so probably a safety measure why they have all been taken out of use until the cause is found. It smashed the upper deck windscreen of the Gemini 3 and reshaped the front of the roof.

The pantographs were back in use today.

Also today, the Harrogate-Skipton 59 'Dalesbus' was worked by an eCitaro for the first time, a single decker being used due to the high winds forecast. I will confess that I thought bustimes was incorrect until I saw it at Harrogate Bus Station with a 'Dalesbus' sticker in the windscreen!

 

[SCH117X]

The pantographs were back in use today.

Also today, the Harrogate-Skipton 59 'Dalesbus' was worked by an eCitaro for the first time, a single decker being used due to the high winds forecast. I will confess that I thought bustimes was incorrect until I saw it at Harrogate Bus Station with a 'Dalesbus' sticker in the windscreen!

Obviously not intended for them to work it as the display is not programmed for it.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Obviously not intended for them to work it as the display is not programmed for it.

Seems a strange oversight, it was bound to happen at some point. After all the 7900s do occasionally find their way on to the 36. And yesterday on some school runs too!

 

[SCH117X]

Seems a strange oversight, it was bound to happen at some point. After all the 7900s do occasionally find their way on to the 36. And yesterday on some school runs too!

36s - ticket machine errors. Suppose one might back Harrogate to Ripley and back. They were previously diagrammed for some school runs and yesterdays use of two seems sensible given they could a manage them from a charging at the depot.

 

[M60lad]

What is it with Transdev/Blazefield and their destinations this isn't the first time where an odd vehicle from one of their operations has found its way onto a route it doesn't normally operate only for it not have the route programmed into the display?

As far as I know its the same at Burnley and Blackburn at Burnley X43 branded vehicles are only programmed with X43 destinations and can't work anything else and until recently it was the same at Blackburn with 1 branded MMC200s they could only show the 1 route on them and if they were on any other route they just had Blackburn Bus Company on the front.

Why can they just have all vehicles programmed with all routes they operate just like every other operator does?

 

[SCH117X]

Yet 36 vehicles seem to be pretty fully programmed as I came across one working the 727H school service with the correct display on the destination.

 

[158756]

What is it with Transdev/Blazefield and their destinations this isn't the first time where an odd vehicle from one of their operations has found its way onto a route it doesn't normally operate only for it not have the route programmed into the display?

As far as I know its the same at Burnley and Blackburn at Burnley X43 branded vehicles are only programmed with X43 destinations and can't work anything else and until recently it was the same at Blackburn with 1 branded MMC200s they could only show the 1 route on them and if they were on any other route they just had Blackburn Bus Company on the front.

Why can they just have all vehicles programmed with all routes they operate just like every other operator does?

I think the X43 vehicles are also programmed for certain school/college services they sometimes operate. But yes Transdev seem to be very, perhaps overly, strict about keeping branded vehicles to their route. The X43 Enviro 400s are a good example of this - the full compliment of 14 buses delivered in 2020 were never needed because of cuts during the pandemic, but they didn't use them on other (public) routes until a couple were repainted into orange last year.

 

[SCH117X]

Think is down to the local operation - 36 vehicles are not unknown to appear on other services.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Dec 2024 ==

Deerfold - You live in the Keighley area, yet you comment on services between Harrogate, Wetherby and Leeds a lot. How often do you travel between those destinations? The 36 is rarely every 10 minutes as there are so many cancellations and so many buses running one behind the other. The trains are every 30 minutes between Leeds and Harrogate during the day. Some are Azumas which are far superior to a bus.

No one can save time commuting on the bus from the Harrogate area into Leeds. There are stations at Hornbeam and Pannal which are convenient for the South side of Harrogate. Very few people commute to the intermediate stops between Harrogate and Leeds city centre.

Lucy P - similarly you do not live in Harrogate. How do you know who commutes from where to where? And its not just those living close to the route but those connecting off other services. I had a neighbour who worked in Leeds and caught the bus. Its not just a time factor, its where in Leeds you can get off/on the bus aside from the bus station, proximity to where you want to be and not having to drag youself across to the other side of Leeds to catch a train which themselves are not that reliable.

 

[Deerfold]

Deerfold - You live in the Keighley area, yet you comment on services between Harrogate, Wetherby and Leeds a lot. How often do you travel between those destinations? The 36 is rarely every 10 minutes as there are so many cancellations and so many buses running one behind the other. The trains are every 30 minutes between Leeds and Harrogate during the day. Some are Azumas which are far superior to a bus.

No one can save time commuting on the bus from the Harrogate area into Leeds. There are stations at Hornbeam and Pannal which are convenient for the South side of Harrogate. Very few people commute to the intermediate stops between Harrogate and Leeds city centre.

I've asked questions about your route though Wetherby quite a lot. You never answer them. I used to catch the 98 and 99 many years ago, but haven't claimed to have used them much recently.

I travel with work to Harrogate quite often, not always directly from or to home. I'll go between Leeds and Harrogate a dozen or so times a year.
I'll usually catch the train if I'm connecting to another rail service, the bus otherwise.

I used to travel three times a week between Harrogate and Halifax in each direction, often via Leeds. I'd often get the bus to Leeds.

As you say, it's often 30 minutes between trains from Harrogate. That's enough time to get most of the way to Leeds if there's a convenient bus. I've seen many people board and embark on the North side of the city centre.

There's days when the 36 service falls apart, but I've generally found it reliable.

I'm not a big fan of the Azumas. If I can book on a 225 between London and Leeds, I will. Not everyone's opinion is the same as yours, no matter how much you think it is.

 

[SCH117X]

I referred to the bus being 20 minute quicker as a example - that was returning from a days conference on the north side of Leeds City Centre a couple of years back. A work colleague had come by train so we parted ways and he shot off at high speed southwards whilst I ambled to New Briggate and after a brief wait a 36 arrived. I left the bus at the Pier Head/Centotaph/Bettys stop and caught my connecting bus soon after. Now today the 36 does not call there so whether I would have time to walk down West Park I' m not sure, However the train my colleague caught was due at Harrogate one minute before my connecting bus left the bus station, and hence a very unlikely connection to make and a 20 miniute gap to the next one. So today it would be a case that the journey home from New Briggate is as quick as the train. Given the extra leg room on a 36 compared to woefully cramped accommodation on the train and that normally being uncomfortably rammed full initially then the more pleasant environment of the 36 wins. I have suggested that a setting down stop is provided outside Harrogates Library which may be happening next year as some parking spaces their are apparently to be removed. That would give the potential to catch a connecting bus from the other side of the road.

 

[theblackwatch]

Deerfold - You live in the Keighley area, yet you comment on services between Harrogate, Wetherby and Leeds a lot. How often do you travel between those destinations? The 36 is rarely every 10 minutes as there are so many cancellations and so many buses running one behind the other. The trains are every 30 minutes between Leeds and Harrogate during the day. Some are Azumas which are far superior to a bus.

No one can save time commuting on the bus from the Harrogate area into Leeds. There are stations at Hornbeam and Pannal which are convenient for the South side of Harrogate. Very few people commute to the intermediate stops between Harrogate and Leeds city centre.

Cancellations apply equally on the trains - last week when I was travelling to Leeds, I was lucky that my train ran, but the following two were cancelled, meaning a gap of 90 minutes between trains from Harrogate to Leeds. There's normally at least a couple of trains a day cancelled on the line.

Personally I find . For example, when I went to the theatre at Leeds, it was much easier to walk to Vicar Lane for the bus home (which dropped me off closer to home than the train would have done as well). The biggest pain with the bus is its continual stopping in the suburbs of Leeds - it was much better when it ran 'semi-fast' and those travelling into our out of Leeds from the city suburbs had to use the local buses.

Obviously not intended for them to work it as the display is not programmed for it.

The driver confirmed to me that the 59 wasn't programmed in to the bus, and there wasn't time to do it in the morning (presumably it's not a 30 second job!). Life was much simpler when you could just wind the destination blind!

 

[stevieinselby]

The driver confirmed to me that the 59 wasn't programmed in to the bus, and there wasn't time to do it in the morning (presumably it's not a 30 second job!). Life was much simpler when you could just wind the destination blind!

That assumes that all buses have blinds that have all destinations on!

 

[SCH117X]

Or they copped out and simply show Service, Town Service or City Service the in destination, oh hang on the latter sill happens in Ripon.

 

[theblackwatch]

That assumes that all buses have blinds that have all destinations on!

Normally they would be able to at least put the number on and then wind the location to the white blank!

 

[stevieinselby]

Or they copperd out and simply show Service, Town Service or City Serviuce the in destination, oh hang on the latter sill happens in Ripon.

Given Dales & District's track record of typos on their destination boards, it wouldn't surprise me if they did have "City Serviuce"

 

[SCH117X]

Typos corrected!

A couple of the ADLs had a number of turns of the 36 today including what looks to a pretty unique Harrogate-Moortown and Moortown-Ripon to regain the timetable. One is still tracking.

 

[theblackwatch]

Typos corrected!

A couple of the ADLs had a number of turns of the 36 today including what looks to a pretty unique Harrogate-Moortown and Moortown-Ripon to regain the timetable. One is still tracking.

A couple out this morning too on the Boxing Day 36s to Leeds, although it would appear neither of them managed to make it back to Harrogate and were replaced by 3616 and 3639.

 

[dodecahedron67]

Just a note on reliance - they are not continuing to operate any school services, the owner is giving up his O license (direct source)

 

[YorkRailFan]

Just a note on reliance - they are not continuing to operate any school services, the owner is giving up his O license (direct source)

Are these school services transferring to Transdev with the 2 Transdev are taking over or are they going up for tender?

 

[darloscott]

Are these school services transferring to Transdev with the 2 Transdev are taking over or are they going up for tender?

Believe the ones they operate are for Pullman so they'll probably just go back there.

 

[YorkRailFan]

67 and 66 have transferred from York to Team Pennine, additionally, 1825 has transferred from Keighley to Flyer.

Believe the ones they operate are for Pullman so they'll probably just go back there.

Knew they operated some for Pullman, but not all, interesting, thanks!