Transdev Blazefield

[Busoccultation]

Does anyone know how long is left until the Blackburn B10BLE's does get withdrawn from normal service?

 

[Ashly_Jethro]

Does anyone know how long is left until the Blackburn B10BLE's does get withdrawn from normal service?

I think they’re just waiting for cascades from Harrogate now, they’ve been earmarked for a while now, think the current 7s (former mainline) will join the rest of their batch back at Blackburn, the current 1s might end up getting withdrawn or put onto school services like the ex IrwellLines and I think Paul Turner might have said Keighley’s Shuttels are being withdrawn

 

[Busoccultation]

I think they’re just waiting for cascades from Harrogate now, they’ve been earmarked for a while now, think the current 7s (former mainline) will join the rest of their batch back at Blackburn, the current 1s might end up getting withdrawn or put onto school services like the ex IrwellLines and I think Paul Turner might have said Keighley’s Shuttels are being withdrawn

Thanks, I do have plans to go up north in the next few months hopefully to ride a B10BLE while they are still being used.

 

[158756]

I noticed bustimes.org thinks two of Rochdale's Enviro 200s have been painted into Burnley orange, so if true presumably they aren't going to the Bee Network. Anyone know which Transdev vehicles are transferring?

 

[Andyh82]

I think they’re just waiting for cascades from Harrogate now, they’ve been earmarked for a while now, think the current 7s (former mainline) will join the rest of their batch back at Blackburn, the current 1s might end up getting withdrawn or put onto school services like the ex IrwellLines and I think Paul Turner might have said Keighley’s Shuttels are being withdrawn

There is also the question of what buses they keep from Rochdale, and how they cascade through the fleet

Some of the ex Nottingham E200s are being repainted orange for Burnley, but I also wonder will they be retaining the Streetlites, and the ex-Little Hotline now Bury Rosso Mellors

 

[SCH117X]

I noticed bustimes.org thinks two of Rochdale's Enviro 200s have been painted into Burnley orange, so if true presumably they aren't going to the Bee Network. Anyone know which Transdev vehicles are transferring?

The West Yorkshire Information Service say there are six Rochdale vehicles to go to Burnley, presumably six Enviro 200s, which then presumably displace an equivalent number of vehicles there and possible changes elsewhere.

28th January update-

Rosso Enviro 200 765 is now away for painting into Burnley orange livery, although as with similar 763 it may return to use unbranded at Rochdale.
It's understood a total of six buses are involved in the programme.

 

[cnjb8]

I noticed bustimes.org thinks two of Rochdale's Enviro 200s have been painted into Burnley orange, so if true presumably they aren't going to the Bee Network. Anyone know which Transdev vehicles are transferring?

Transdev haven't won any Bee Network franchises and the Rochdale depot is transferring to First

 

[RustySpoons]

The West Yorkshire Information Service say there are six Rochdale vehicles to go to Burnley, presumably six Enviro 200s, which then presumably displace an equivalent number of vehicles there and possible changes elsewhere.

There's been murmurings that some of the Merc Sprinters are planned to move to Rochdale/Bee Network. I know some have been repainted, but there are a number of them still running round still in the old 'Warburtons' Ribble County livery...

The Streetlites are still an unknown. There's been talk of them going to Rochdale, but then there's been just as many people saying they're staying within Transdev.

 

[Andyh82]

Transdev haven't won any Bee Network franchises and the Rochdale depot is transferring to First

We know that, the poster was meaning the buses aren’t staying at Rochdale and transferring to First

 

[SCH117X]

There's been murmurings that some of the Merc Sprinters are planned to move to Rochdale/Bee Network. I know some have been repainted, but there are a number of them still running round still in the old 'Warburtons' Ribble County livery..

Six Enviros 200 to Burnley would release the five Merc Sprinters (only one has been repainted) there and probably allow them to get rid of unique MAN chassised Enviro 200 they acquired from York Pullman.

 

[Andyh82]

I think the original comment that WYIS are reporting from Transdev management is confirming just that specific point - that 6 Enviro 200s are going to Burnley

Importantly it doesn’t say that other buses aren’t also going to Burnley, or that other Enviros aren’t going elsewhere

 

[Mollman]

I think they’re just waiting for cascades from Harrogate now, they’ve been earmarked for a while now, think the current 7s (former mainline) will join the rest of their batch back at Blackburn, the current 1s might end up getting withdrawn or put onto school services like the ex IrwellLines and I think Paul Turner might have said Keighley’s Shuttels are being withdrawn

Sorry if I misunderstood your point, but Shuttle B7s are being replaced by eCitaros at some point in the next year or so.

 

[SCH117X]

I think they’re just waiting for cascades from Harrogate now, they’ve been earmarked for a while now, think the current 7s (former mainline) will join the rest of their batch back at Blackburn, the current 1s might end up getting withdrawn or put onto school services like the ex IrwellLines and I think Paul Turner might have said Keighley’s Shuttels are being withdrawn

The oldest non-school B7RLEs at Harrogate and Keighley are Harrogate Route 1 1701-1705 (new June 2004), Keighleys ex Coastliner 1750-1754 (new Mar 2005), then the Shuttles 1802-1807 and 1809 1814 (new Apr 2004) and Harrogate 1834, 1837-1839 (new June 2007 - 1834 and 1837 are branded for Route 1) along with Keighleys 1726. Harrogate has 11 2009 B7RLEs but they will still need some for the X98/X99 unless that is returned to full double deck operation using some or all of the three 2011 B9TLs at Rochdale. There is also the issue of the 8 and 21 unless the tenders go elsewhere. Possibly five or six of the 2009 Harrogate vehicles will go to Keighley to allow older ones to be withdrawn

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Feb 2024 ==

Theres a posting on Transdev Enthusiasts on Facebook setting what is currently planned with the Rochdale fleet bar Streetlites 612-619

Expanding that posting descriptively;

Being disposed of / going off lease are Solos 188/9, Streetlites 601-611 and Enviro 200s 731-737.
Enviro 200s 761/2 are to go to Elland replacing 2008 / 2009 Solos 173/181
The six Enviro 200s going to Burnley are 763-8 which will replace the four leased Rossendale Rover Solos 161-4 and, as I predicted, the MAN chassied Enviro 200 1201.
B7RLEs 1717-1721 are to go to Keighley replacing ex Irwell Line 1729-1733 which are to go off lease
B9TLs 2422/3 are to go to Keighley for Aireline increase
B9TL 2424 is to go to Burnley for Rosso services

Also the four Rosso branded Mellor Stratas at Blackburn 79-83 are to be repainted for use at Keighley and the three Transdev Go Stratas at Keighley 68-70 will then move to Elland.

Net change - vehicles at Burnley increased by two, Keighley increased by three, Blackburn decreased by four, Elland increased by three.

 

[JetBlast]

What will be left of the Rosso brand? Not much really?

 

[SCH117X]

What will be left of the Rosso brand? Not much really?

Rossendale Rovers 7,8,10,11,12
464 Accrington to Rochdale
Irwell Line 481/483 Bury to Blackburn / Burnley
Red Express X41 Accrington to Manchester (okay Blackburn Bus Company but listed on the Rosso web site)

 

[RustySpoons]

Rossendale Rovers 7,8,10,11,12
464 Accrington to Rochdale
Irwell Line 481/483 Bury to Blackburn / Burnley
Red Express X41 Accrington to Manchester (okay Blackburn Bus Company but listed on the Rosso web site)

Think at this point it's worth ditching Rosso altogether. The new Enviros that are incoming to replace the current Rovers fleet appear to all be painted in Burnley colours.

The 464 is a Rosso service in name only. It's operated from Blackburn with Blackburn drivers, often with Blackburn vehicles if a 464 is unavailable.

Irwell Line may as well be a Burnley service as there's nothing on any of the vehicles to identify it as a Rosso service.

X41 is a weird one. Not sure why it's now listed as a Rosso service. It's a criminally neglected service!

 

[Andyh82]

I’ve thought that maybe they will discontinue the Rossendale Transport licence, maybe the drivers are on different terms and conditions which would be a sticking point

 

[Ashly_Jethro]

Think at this point it's worth ditching Rosso altogether. The new Enviros that are incoming to replace the current Rovers fleet appear to all be painted in Burnley colours.

The 464 is a Rosso service in name only. It's operated from Blackburn with Blackburn drivers, often with Blackburn vehicles if a 464 is unavailable.

Irwell Line may as well be a Burnley service as there's nothing on any of the vehicles to identify it as a Rosso service.

X41 is a weird one. Not sure why it's now listed as a Rosso service. It's a criminally neglected service!

The enviros aren’t for RR, they’re to replace 1202 and the remaining Stratas, the stratas being the ones migrating to the RR services, replacing their Solos.

It is completely feasible to absorb the remaining services into Burnley and Blackburn respectively, especially given RR and IL are both at a stage where they can be re-branded into a Burnley bus brand, and they were testing EV for 464 too which has since gone quiet but what any vinyls that mention Rosso can be quickly replaced. All that’d be left is to get some new vinyls for Rawtenstall bus station where Rosso ones are currently Displayed. Alternately they could keep Rosso in name only and change RR to just Rosso, after all they are Rossendale routes so it would fit the service nicely if only to keep the name going.

In regards to Rossos drivers, I know some are staying at Rochdale and transferring to First, any others could be moved to Burnley and Blackburn under the same TUPE legislation that’ll be used by First.

 

[Ken H]

The enviros aren’t for RR, they’re to replace 1202 and the remaining Stratas, the stratas being the ones migrating to the RR services, replacing their Solos.

It is completely feasible to absorb the remaining services into Burnley and Blackburn respectively, especially given RR and IL are both at a stage where they can be re-branded into a Burnley bus brand, and they were testing EV for 464 too which has since gone quiet but what any vinyls that mention Rosso can be quickly replaced. All that’d be left is to get some new vinyls for Rawtenstall bus station where Rosso ones are currently Displayed. Alternately they could keep Rosso in name only and change RR to just Rosso, after all they are Rossendale routes so it would fit the service nicely if only to keep the name going.

In regards to Rossos drivers, I know some are staying at Rochdale and transferring to First, any others could be moved to Burnley and Blackburn under the same TUPE legislation that’ll be used by First.

Doesn't Rosso have worse wages/conditions than other Transdev operations. Seen as a low cost operator?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

In regards to Rossos drivers, I know some are staying at Rochdale and transferring to First, any others could be moved to Burnley and Blackburn under the same TUPE legislation that’ll be used by First.

They won't be covered by TUPE if they're moving depots within the same employer.

 

[Andyh82]

The enviros aren’t for RR, they’re to replace 1202 and the remaining Stratas, the stratas being the ones migrating to the RR services, replacing their Solos.

It is completely feasible to absorb the remaining services into Burnley and Blackburn respectively, especially given RR and IL are both at a stage where they can be re-branded into a Burnley bus brand, and they were testing EV for 464 too which has since gone quiet but what any vinyls that mention Rosso can be quickly replaced. All that’d be left is to get some new vinyls for Rawtenstall bus station where Rosso ones are currently Displayed. Alternately they could keep Rosso in name only and change RR to just Rosso, after all they are Rossendale routes so it would fit the service nicely if only to keep the name going.

In regards to Rossos drivers, I know some are staying at Rochdale and transferring to First, any others could be moved to Burnley and Blackburn under the same TUPE legislation that’ll be used by First.

I like the idea of using the Rosso name on the Strata’s rather than the Ray Stenning brand, to keep the name going. They could probably get away with just putting it straight on the old Ribble Country livery

In regards to the Irwell Line, I thought the temporary livery may have been because either the Centros were going to be on their way out due to being non standard or due to them having something else in mind to run it as part of the Rosso Rochdale exit. Whatever happens, the route is surely crying out for some BSIP funding, as the half hourly frequency is now pretty poor. You’d think it could justify a better frequency, Bury is actually quite a good shopping destination, it doesn’t seem quite as run down as a lot of northern secondary towns often are

 

[RustySpoons]

Doesn't Rosso have worse wages/conditions than other Transdev operations. Seen as a low cost operator?

Not sure if it's still the case, but it has been the source of some major contention over the years especially as Rosso services moved to Blackburn and Burnley depots where drivers were on better wages.

In regards to the Irwell Line, I thought the temporary livery may have been because either the Centros were going to be on their way out due to being non standard or due to them having something else in mind to run it as part of the Rosso Rochdale exit. Whatever happens, the route is surely crying out for some BSIP funding, as the half hourly frequency is now pretty poor. You’d think it could justify a better frequency, Bury is actually quite a good shopping destination, it doesn’t seem quite as run down as a lot of northern secondary towns often are

As I understood it at the time the Centros were not envisaged to be on the Irwell Line long term, hence the hybrid livery and basic route branding. There was briefly talk of them being repainted, but don't think this would happen as they're non-Transdev spec vehicles. Will there be enough B7s (or others) displaced at Harrogate when the electrics arrive to replace the Centros?

 

[158756]

I like the idea of using the Rosso name on the Strata’s rather than the Ray Stenning brand, to keep the name going. They could probably get away with just putting it straight on the old Ribble Country livery

In regards to the Irwell Line, I thought the temporary livery may have been because either the Centros were going to be on their way out due to being non standard or due to them having something else in mind to run it as part of the Rosso Rochdale exit. Whatever happens, the route is surely crying out for some BSIP funding, as the half hourly frequency is now pretty poor. You’d think it could justify a better frequency, Bury is actually quite a good shopping destination, it doesn’t seem quite as run down as a lot of northern secondary towns often are

About the Irwell Line frequency, I suspect the old 15 minute frequency between Rawtenstall and Bury would be difficult to justify on the number of end to end passengers alone, when it ran it would have been competing with First/Diamond for passengers within Bury. And I would think it unlikely that TfGM would grant a permit for any frequency increase which would abstract revenue from the Bee Network. Maybe the future franchising was part of why Transdev cut the route back so much in the first place? Plus Rawtenstall-Bury is fairly distant from a depot since Haslingden closed.

 

[Ashly_Jethro]

They won't be covered by TUPE if they're moving depots within the same employer.

Not necessarily, Rossendale Transport LTD and Burnley & Pendle Transport LTD are two separate entities, yes they are owned by the same company but they each have their own books, so it could still apply

Doesn't Rosso have worse wages/conditions than other Transdev operations. Seen as a low cost operator?

I think the gap has been closing over the years. It seems all 3 are offering new drivers up to £15 per hour, surprisingly the same as Harrogate. Shockingly, Keighley seems to be the highest on up to £15.05. With TeamPennine and (also surprisingly) York/coastliner is on only £13.35

Not sure what that means for existing drivers though.

 

[dodecahedron67]

Not necessarily, Rossendale Transport LTD and Burnley & Pendle Transport LTD are two separate entities, yes they are owned by the same company but they each have their own books, so it could still apply

I think the gap has been closing over the years. It seems all 3 are offering new drivers up to £15 per hour, surprisingly the same as Harrogate. Shockingly, Keighley seems to be the highest on up to £15.05. With TeamPennine and it's also surprising that York/coastliner is on only £13.35

Not sure what that means for existing drivers though.

Malton (Coastliner) are already on £15/hr, York is raising up to £15/hr from March 18th when Malton becomes an outstation of York and conditions are harmonised

 

[Deerfold]

Not necessarily, Rossendale Transport LTD and Burnley & Pendle Transport LTD are two separate entities, yes they are owned by the same company but they each have their own books, so it could still apply

No-one is forced to TUPE - I can't see many drivers being keen on moving to use TUPE to move somewhere where other people doing the same job are paid more (assuming their current contract doesn't cover them moving depots) - they'd be able to get a redundancy payment then apply for a job with Burnley (or other employers looking for drivers in Greater Manchester - there's plenty about).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Not necessarily, Rossendale Transport LTD and Burnley & Pendle Transport LTD are two separate entities, yes they are owned by the same company but they each have their own books, so it could still apply

As I said, TUPE doesn't apply if you're moving depots with the same employer. If they are employed by separate entities, then yes, but not if they are moving depots for the same employer as there are Rosso operations at Blackburn. As @Deerfold says, depends if there is statement about moving depots in their contract of employment.

Depending what the variance now is, might be time to harmonise anyway

 

[SCH117X]

Not sure if it's still the case, but it has been the source of some major contention over the years especially as Rosso services moved to Blackburn and Burnley depots where drivers were on better wages.



As I understood it at the time the Centros were not envisaged to be on the Irwell Line long term, hence the hybrid livery and basic route branding. There was briefly talk of them being repainted, but don't think this would happen as they're non-Transdev spec vehicles. Will there be enough B7s (or others) displaced at Harrogate when the electrics arrive to replace the Centros?

As I posted on Tuesday and now edited on the basis of info re the Rochdale B9TLs, Harrogate has 11 2009 B7RLEs but they will still need some for the X98/X99 There is also the issue of the 8 and 21 unless the tenders go elsewhere. Possibly some of those will go to Keighley to replace older vehcies or for the Irwell Line or to Blackburn to repalce the B10BLEs. The remainder of the displaced B7RLEs will be 17-20 years old.

 

[RustySpoons]

Doesn't look like there's much point in keeping the Rosso brand much longer...

Changes at Rosso from 24 March

From 24 March, there will be some changes to our buses with the introduction of the Bee Network in Rochdale and Bury - plus we'll be making some changes to our network in Rossendale to improve our timekeeping for you.

Buses in Bury & Rochdale​

Many of our routes in Bury & Rochdale will become part of the Bee Network from this date. Our only routes in these areas which will not become part of the Bee Network are the 464 and Irwell Line. Frequencies and times will generally stay the same and we'll be sharing more information in the coming weeks.

Buses in Rossendale​

the 7 Rawtenstall to Bacup & Todmorden

We'll be tweaking the times on this route to simplify the times and improve reliability for you.

the 8 Burnley to Bacup

We'll be changing times on this route to improve reliability for you. We'll also be using a bigger bus to ensure that everyone has space to travel comfortably.

Rossendale Rovers 10, 11, 12 and 13

There will be some changes to these routes to make sure we're running as reliable as possible for you. Times on the 10 and 11 will be revised. We'll be changing the 12 to incorporate the route of the 13 - the 12 will run to Hall Carr & Balladen as normal but will serve New Hall Hey Retail Park on the way into Rawtenstall.

the 464 Rochdale to Bacup, Rawtenstall and Accrington

We have been struggling with congestion on the 464 recently and will be introducing a brand new timetable to help us run more reliably for you. We'll also have a new, more simple, evening service.

Irwell Line 481 & 483 Bury to Rawenstall then Burnley or Blackburn

We'll be introducing a new timetable to help us run more reliably for you. We'll also have new early evening buses between Rawtenstall and Burnley through Waterfoot and Water.

Aside from keeping the Rossendale Rovers brand for the 10, 11 and 12 the rest are basically Blackburn/Burnley services anyway.

 

[SCH117X]

Doesn't look like there's much point in keeping the Rosso brand much longer...

Changes at Rosso from 24 March

Aside from keeping the Rossendale Rovers brand for the 10, 11 and 12 the rest are basically Blackburn/Burnley services anyway.

Whoops - X41 not mentioned - a lot of readers will be thinking thats part of the Bee Network.