Transdev Blazefield

[GusB]

Was in Harrogate for my hair bleached/coloured/cut yesterday. Parked up in Harewood and then got the 36 and went via the detour in Poole and Huby. On the bus to Harrogate, it said that electric buses were coming to the 36. Has anyone heard anything about this? I’m not trawling through 115 pages.

Have you considered using the forum's search function?

Using "36 electric" as the search term and choosing "this thread" may reveal what you're looking for.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Have you considered using the forum's search function?

Using "36 electric" as the search term and choosing "this thread" may reveal what you're looking for.

That's a radical bold idea!

S'pose you were to simply search "electric" and this thread, you may well see reference to #3311 and subsequent posts

 

[Mollman]

Was in Harrogate for my hair bleached/coloured/cut yesterday. Parked up in Harewood and then got the 36 and went via the detour in Poole and Huby. On the bus to Harrogate, it said that electric buses were coming to the 36. Has anyone heard anything about this? I’m not trawling through 115 pages.

If they have ordered anything it hasn't been publicly announced yet.

 

[pm2304877]

Transdev's main problem has been it's leasing policy. New vehicles have been leased but sent back leaving a polarised fleet of new and increasingly elderly buses. Looking at a fleet list will reveal a growing number of double deckers aged 20+ and also pre-millenium Volvo B10BLEs. Some 150 buses fall in this category. I can't see Transdev replacing one third of its fleet from its existing resources. My resource is the Buslists.uk website, formerly Quack77. I wonder if Rotala or Go Ahead would step in? They have a huge replacement job on their hands if they take over.

 

[SCH117X]

Transdevs main problem has been it's LEASING policy. New vehicles have been leased but sent back leaving a polarised fleet of new and increasingly elderlybuses . Looking at a fleet list will reveal a growing number of double deckers aged 20+ and also pre milleniumVolvo B10BLEs. Some 150 buses fall in this category . I can't see Transdev replacing one third of its fleet from its existing resources . My resource is the Buslists.uk website formerly Quack77. I wonder if Rotala or Go Ahead would step in? They have a huge replacement job on their hands if they take over.

Wholesale fleet changes will be taking place with the electrics that are to arrive for Flyer, Harrogate and Keighley.Its not neccessarily the age of vehicle but how well it has been looked after hence younger acquired vehciles from Tiger have gone for scrap. Theres 19 Presidents at Keighley over 20 year old and 3 at Burnley although one of those has been vastly rebuilt. 11 further old double deckers are withdrawn including all the ex National Express Presidents.

 

[northernchris]

Its not neccessarily the age of vehicle but how well it has been looked after hence younger acquired vehciles from Tiger have gone for scrap. Theres 19 Presidents at Keighley over 20 year old and 3 at Burnley although one of those has been vastly rebuilt. 11 further old double deckers are withdrawn including all the ex National Express Presidents.

Very true, Keighley's Shuttles are reasonably reliable given their age, it's the interiors which let them down. The ex-Witchway B7s (2750-2764) could be on borrowed time though, with WYIS reporting 2761 having gone for scrap and 2 of Blackburn's examples also withdrawn.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Wholesale fleet changes will be taking place with the electrics that are to arrive for Flyer, Harrogate and Keighley.Its not neccessarily the age of vehicle but how well it has been looked after hence younger acquired vehciles from Tiger have gone for scrap. Theres 19 Presidents at Keighley over 20 year old and 3 at Burnley although one of those has been vastly rebuilt. 11 further old double deckers are withdrawn including all the ex National Express Presidents.

It's also not necessarily the age of the vehicles either. IIRC, most of those B7TLs and B10BLEs are allocated to schools work so they're working 4-5 hours per day, 5 days a weeks, 38 weeks a year - not in frontline service.

Again, those who are more familiar with Transdev than me could confirm, but I think it's the Shuttle fleet at Keighley that is fairly old and in front line service, as well as the heavily refurbished Eclipses in Harrogate and Keighley. I think some of those refurbs are 2005, and would certainly be reasonable cascades into the school bus fleet.

 

[pm2304877]

There needs to be fixed retirement age for buses except for limited heritage use (school holidays, weekends, public holidays,special event running days, Christmas related events).

Regular buses should be retired in their 16th year and school/works buses their 21st year. Buses like humans and all creatures have limited lifespans!

 

[liamf656]

There needs to be fixed retirement age for buses except for limited heritage use (school holidays, weekends, public holidays,special event running days, Christmas related events).

Regular buses should be retired in their 16th year and school/works buses their 21st year. Buses like humans and all creatures have limited lifespans!

But if they have no problems and work absolutely fine, what’s the actual issue? Trent Barton have a fleet of 15 year old B7RLEs that are still reliable and feel very modern

 

[WAB]

But if they have no problems and work absolutely fine, what’s the actual issue? Trent Barton have a fleet of 15 year old B7RLEs that are still reliable and feel very modern

TrentBarton are a prime example of making old buses seem modern and comfortable, aren't they? It can be done, given care and money.

 

[pm2304877]

TrentBarton are a prime example of making old buses seem modern and comfortable, aren't they? It can be done, given care and money.

Trent Barton have a more modern fleet than Transdev even though Wellglades off shoot fleets did have some elderly vehicles that had to be replaced to be DDA compliant by the end of 2016. Transdev needs some 50 saloons and some 100'double deckers either new or recent used.
.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

There needs to be fixed retirement age for buses except for limited heritage use (school holidays, weekends, public holidays,special event running days, Christmas related events).

Regular buses should be retired in their 16th year and school/works buses their 21st year. Buses like humans and all creatures have limited lifespans!

Trent Barton have a more modern fleet than Transdev even though Wellglades off shoot fleets did have some elderly vehicles that had to be replaced to be DDA compliant by the end of 2016. Transdev needs some 50 saloons and some 100'double deckers either new or recent used.
.

I'm not certain how much you actually thought this through? We have plenty of bus routes that are struggling for survival as it is, and do so only because they use vehicles that are fully depreciated or have a low book value, so I'd question how you square the economics with what you propose?

Secondly, I don't know if you've actually travelled on the Transdev vehicles? In 2019, I had the opportunity to compare two 2005 B7RLE Eclipses in West Yorkshire. One was First with tired seats, threadbare cushions and a succession of rattles etc. The Transdev example was heavily refurbished, barely had a squeak and you'd struggle to know (esp with a dateless reg plate) that it was 14 years old. I might add that I travelled on Lynx (in Norfolk) a few weeks ago and they have a recently acquired e400 that has also had a major refurb and again, you'd not know it was 11 years old

 

[Deerfold]

I've been surprised travelling around Keighley recently how many of the buses have old fares for tickets on their adverts - some are two changes out of date. Someone asking for a KDay advertised at £4.50 won't be happy paying £5.70 for a West Yorkshire Plus ticket.

 

[Andyh82]

Trent Barton have a more modern fleet than Transdev even though Wellglades off shoot fleets did have some elderly vehicles that had to be replaced to be DDA compliant by the end of 2016. Transdev needs some 50 saloons and some 100'double deckers either new or recent used.
.

Needs 100 double deckers for what?

I’m not sure what this panic is that you are suggesting

 

[Goldfish62]

I'm not certain how much you actually thought this through? We have plenty of bus routes that are struggling for survival as it is, and do so only because they use vehicles that are fully depreciated or have a low book value, so I'd question how you square the economics with what you propose?

Secondly, I don't know if you've actually travelled on the Transdev vehicles? In 2019, I had the opportunity to compare two 2005 B7RLE Eclipses in West Yorkshire. One was First with tired seats, threadbare cushions and a succession of rattles etc. The Transdev example was heavily refurbished, barely had a squeak and you'd struggle to know (esp with a dateless reg plate) that it was 14 years old. I might add that I travelled on Lynx (in Norfolk) a few weeks ago and they have a recently acquired e400 that has also had a major refurb and again, you'd not know it was 11 years old

Ultimately it's corrosion which often gets aged buses, usually around the rear axle. As you say, cosmetically they can be made to go on virtually forever.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Needs 100 double deckers for what?

I’m not sure what this panic is that you are suggesting

Would seem a rather arbitrary judgment not based on what the vehicles are actually involved in doing. Were they to be operating front-line services, you might think there would be a problem. However, much of the Transdev decker fleet are confined to working a few hours each day, and for less than 40 weeks a year.

Ultimately it's corrosion which often gets aged buses, usually around the rear axle. As you say, cosmetically they can be made to go on virtually forever.

Depending on what is originally specified when ordered/built, and/or the strength of the design, some vehicles can enjoy a) a very long life or b) a rather shorter one

Some of us remember the Scania Metropolitan that, for most operators, represented an unequal battle against corrosion and many were withdrawn when barely 10 years old. The MCW Metrobus enjoyed a long life with West Midlands Travel but only after some fairly large mid-life modifications. Arbitrary rules on the age of a bus really don't reflect the realities and economics of the situation (but hey, you know that).

 

[northernchris]

I've been surprised travelling around Keighley recently how many of the buses have old fares for tickets on their adverts - some are two changes out of date. Someone asking for a KDay advertised at £4.50 won't be happy paying £5.70 for a West Yorkshire Plus ticket.

I've noticed these too. There's even some of the Presidents running around promoting the 760 on the interior panels!

 

[Delenn]

I was on a 7 a few weeks ago and the Coastliner advert had Bridlington on it!

 

[Ken H]

New Transdev group started on Facebook. Seems to be mostly for images.

Transdev Enthusiasts Group | Facebook

A Fan Transdev Blazefield Enthusiasts Group for chatting + Photos.

www.facebook.com

Link goes to new facebook group for Transdev

 

[Delenn]

Has the X41 Red Express been lost to TfGM? A post further back said all but 484, Irwell Line and Rossendale Rovers have gone, but Red Express seems to be as Lancashire routed as the Witchway.

 

[Leedsbusman]

Has the X41 Red Express been lost to TfGM? A post further back said all but 484, Irwell Line and Rossendale Rovers have gone, but Red Express seems to be as Lancashire routed as the Witchway.

Red Express is run by Blackburn not Rosso.

 

[Bwsbro]

Has the X41 Red Express been lost to TfGM? A post further back said all but 484, Irwell Line and Rossendale Rovers have gone, but Red Express seems to be as Lancashire routed as the Witchway.

The X41 is operated on the Blackburn ops which are unaffected by the TFGM Bee Network takeover. Although we all know that Transdev want to kill the route off

 

[Delenn]

Ah thanks. I just got confused as the Red Express shows up on the Rosso page on the Transdev website.

Shame they want to kill it off. I rode it last week and it was an interesting route.

 

[Deerfold]

The X41 is operated on the Blackburn ops which are unaffected by the TFGM Bee Network takeover. Although we all know that Transdev want to kill the route off

Do we? If they did, wouldn't they just withdraw it?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Do we? If they did, wouldn't they just withdraw it?

Exactly. If it's this apparent pot of gold, then they'd keep it. However, it's not - clearly there's a market but not enough to be commercially viable.

 

[pm2304877]

Do we? If they did, wouldn't they just withdraw it?

Firstly my info about Transdevs fleet comes from Buslists.uk and UK buses. I didn't say that the 100 double deckers need all be replaced by NEW vehicles, but bear in mind say 8 y.o used deckers if mileage required is low. However these would need replacing somewhere along the line. But leasing and returning after 7 years leads to polarisation. Arriva could face a similar difficulty replacing the large number of buses from circa 2010 it runs, although leasing hadn't been an issue.

 

[Deerfold]

Firstly my info about Transdevs fleet comes from Buslists.uk and UK buses. I didn't say that the 100 double deckers need all be replaced by NEW vehicles, but bear in mind say 8 y.o used deckers if mileage required is low. However these would need replacing somewhere along the line. But leasing and returning after 7 years leads to polarisation. Arriva could face a similar difficulty replacing the large number of buses from circa 2010 it runs, although leasing hadn't been an issue.

I'm not sure what that has to do with my question.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Aug 2023 ==

Exactly. If it's this apparent pot of gold, then they'd keep it. However, it's not - clearly there's a market but not enough to be commercially viable.

I can understand if people have differing views about what should have been done with the route, but Transdev have showed many times that if they don't want to run a route, they simply won't run it.

 

[peterblue]

X41 is likely a marginal route. Profitable enough for Transdev to run it, but not profitable enough to justify further attention or investment.

 

[M803UYA]

Firstly my info about Transdevs fleet comes from Buslists.uk and UK buses. I didn't say that the 100 double deckers need all be replaced by NEW vehicles, but bear in mind say 8 y.o used deckers if mileage required is low. However these would need replacing somewhere along the line. But leasing and returning after 7 years leads to polarisation. Arriva could face a similar difficulty replacing the large number of buses from circa 2010 it runs, although leasing hadn't been an issue.

So who pays? The customer, with higher fares to offset the higher operating costs, the council, with a higher tender price or the drivers by having a pay cut (good luck with that one... not met drivers who willingly accept pay cuts to replace a fleet). What you won't have is these 'new' buses for nothing, there's a cost to doing so. A newer vehicle is also more mechanically complex than an older one, so when it goes wrong it requires specialist attention.

Arriva only replace buses when their operating companies achieve the required profit margin. As it's not been achieved, DB has refused to invest in new vehicles. It has however managed to pay dividends back to Berlin. FirstGroup also expect a new bus to generate passenger increases when they deploy them. No passenger increases, no new buses for you.

If you have lower mileage work which justifies a well maintained double decker, then you can run it until it finally expires - or becomes uneconomic to repair as you can no longer obtain spare parts. My local bus operator, Southern National ended up with a fleet of Bristol VRTs, in excess of 20 years of age working school/college movements. So much so it became one of the enthusiast go to places to see them in squadron service. Nothing wrong with a set of decent reliable buses on lower mileage work if that retains the services.

I'd take ukbuses info with a massive pinch of salt. It's user edited, like bustimes.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Firstly my info about Transdevs fleet comes from Buslists.uk and UK buses. I didn't say that the 100 double deckers need all be replaced by NEW vehicles, but bear in mind say 8 y.o used deckers if mileage required is low. However these would need replacing somewhere along the line. But leasing and returning after 7 years leads to polarisation. Arriva could face a similar difficulty replacing the large number of buses from circa 2010 it runs, although leasing hadn't been an issue.

The current fleet of existing deckers is old but it doesn't need to be that modern as they're not used on frontline services. They do negligible mileage, working schools for 30 odd weeks a year.

Wellglade Group has 50 or so deckers. Aside from three for a Unibus contract, I don't think they've bought a new decker since 1989. Instead, it's much better to get some oldish ex London machine from Ensign, and run it for years until it expires. In fact, IIRC, quite a number of Transdev deckers (53 plates) have gone in preference to older fleet as, quite simply, they were hammered. Age is nothing more than number - condition and workload is a much more important consideration.