martynbristow
Member
I found its always the guard not checking the board and RTT states 2E so it's not just me. The problem is on short hops they just buzz and go. They assume the times right because the journey has been normal.
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Trains leaving early
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IIRC it was mentioned earlier in this thread that the guard cannot always check the board as its often not close enough to them for the time to be read. Also, as has been mentioned above, the board may be showing a different time to the guard's watch. It has been known for the difference between my watch and the station clock to vary by anything up to 2 mins between successive stations. If I had gone by the fastest, I'd have left a minute early and if I'd gone by the slowest I'd have been a minute late. Guess what? I went by my watch and arrived at the terminus on time (by my watch and the board!)
Um, how did you find this out? Just by guessing that's what happened?! How would you know for sure what happened?
How many would you say is acceptable?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
In my book zero.
It's not a case of what is acceptable and zero with human error is unrealistic, not achievable and no company would aim for 0 on that basis. Unless this is a fairly common thing (which it most definitely isn't) then no money or time will be spent fixing it.
Neil Williams-you just seem to troll this forum jumping on any chance to criticise staff. It's not helpful to threads nor is it interesting. Of course no error is desirable but things happen. Grow up and get over it. A comment like 'in my book zero' really is pointless.
martynbristow
Member
How would I know! I watch them as they've left me early many a time. It gets into a routine after 10am when its quiet and they train gradually makes up time.
When you run down the steps to see the train heading into the tunnel but the board stating **:16 when its not due till 17 it starts to wind you up. The next train is in 15 minutes but it adds up when they do it all the time.
Watch the dispatch. Passenger door opens, then the guards door, then they shut ... and buzz buzz. Th board is only 1 coach away its not impossible to read.
Although most staff are more thorough.
If you're not aiming for zero then by definition you must have an acceptable non-zero figure in mind.
I'd say 7.
Some.
Young Martyn & Neil accept nothing but the perfect do they.
Well, a world were no one makes mistakes ever would be amazing.
That would be in some fantasy realm I have never encountered though. If it's within a min before departure then that's you cutting it too fine I'm afraid. Doors close up to 30secs before so if the boards say xx:16:30 when the doors close and train leave then the guard is right, you are wrong.
But you still havnt told us how you know they leave early due to human error.
martynbristow
Member
Doors only close 30 seconds early when advertised! In this case core stations, and if I'm held up elsewhere buying tickets, stuck behind people blocking stairs etc.
And I think I stated was in the tunnel 1 early, which means i had 1min30 ... its a known problem at such stations
How long should you leave to stand waiting for the train if 1 minute is pushing it then 2? 5?
I have found a service from my station which got a trigger at 1m30 early so that is he doors would be pushing on 2m early as they have a 15s closing sequence :/
I don't think "human error" its lack of checking.
RTT states the train stood for 15s give or take and in that time the guard needed to ensure the train was correctly in the platform, open he doors, allow boarding and then wait for them to close and move off to provide the trigger.
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I'm not asking for money or time (other than that of a driver or guard) to be spent, simply a bit of professionalism.
It is in my view the case that running a last train early is unacceptable, and so staff should put special effort (check, check then check again) into not doing, such that running early is a REALLY rare event. If that's what you do, great. If not, I'm glad you don't work for me, as you wouldn't last long.
To use another example: no SPADs are acceptable, but you do get the odd one. I'd like to see early departure almost as unacceptable in the eyes of staff.
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When you can provide evidence that it's lack of checking then I'll honour your argument with a response. But all you are doing is staff bashing without a clue what you are talking about. You can't possibly know what caused a train to leave early. You are simply guessing.
Yawn. It must be brilliant being perfect. Sadly for the rest of us in the human race we are not and mistakes happen.
Before you can argue these points you need to find a problem. I can't see one. If you can furnish us with evidence that the last train of the day leaving early is a real problem then I think people will consider your pouts as valid but I can't see any real evidence. The last train somewhere in the UK leaving early once upon a time really doesn't count. There are so many reasons why it could happen that once.
But what you are doing is making up a problem which doesn't exist purely to paint rail staff in a bad light.
And I'm dead glad I don't work for you as we would have fallen out majorly a long time ago. You are one of those people who is completely clueless on the workings of the rail industry yet still feels comfortable telling those who know what we are are doing how to do our jobs better.
Now stop trolling and come back when you have a real problem you can back up with real evidence. Stop making up hypothetical situations then telling us how unprofessionally staff work in his made up world of yours...
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Sorry, you can't see the problem with the last train of the day leaving early? Really?
I find that hard to believe.
I find that hard to believe.
Of course I can. But I can't see where the last train is leaving early. Of course it shouldn't happen. But it dosnt happen. As I say, if you can provide evidence that the last train ACTUALLY IS leaving early rather than making up hypothetical situations then I'll respect your points. But there is no suggestion that this actually ever happens. And as I say, saying it happened once in living history dosnt really count.
Whereas you're blindly denying that the staff are ever at fault. You can't possibly know what caused a train to leave early. You are also guessing.
Yes, but my guess Is based on experience, not pure guesswork.
I'm not blindly denying staff are at fault. Read my posts before making such a comment please. I've said many times that staff error is one of MANY possible reasons.
But my real point is tht people are now making up scenarios to suggest staff are at fault when it hasn't even happened and there certainly is no such trend in common issues.
Which last train is leaving/ has left early then?
Lets have some evidence or stop making things up! :roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Same question, lets have some evidence or shut up!
I really can't see why a driver or guard would want to leave early deliberately on the last service when it would be so easy to find out about. It is just one of those things sadly. An accident. I don't think it happens very often.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y53059/2015/04/26/advanced
Shows it departed at 1512 and a quarter, so the station clock running well over a minute early. Maybe a forum member who works at Northern can report for me
Interesting this debacle about the 1411 on the 26th the day in question....
GANNOW JN 15:09H 15:09A RT TIME
BURNLEYMR 15:11 15:12 15:11A 15:12A RT TIME
COPY PIT 15:19 15:18A 1 EARLY
HALLROYDJ 15:28H 15:26A 2 EARLY
HEBDENBDG 15:33 15:34 15:31M 15:34M RT TIME
MILNROYDJ 15:40H 15:40M RT TIME
HALIFAX 15:45 15:46 15:45M 15:46M RT TIME
CCF also seems to say the exact same thing
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Thread still going and still spot on!!
Trainfan344
Established Member
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http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P50647/2015/05/03/advanced Appears to have left Penrith North Lakes 12 minutes early today, yet according to the social media teams, it left ontime?
I assume it may have left after all the passengers from the connecting buses from Edinburgh & Glasgow (due 13:45) boarded?
Is Penrith normally a scheduled stop for this train or is it just because of the engineering works today?
Anyhow - check this this one out for a major recovery feat! From 98 down to 6 early in 19 1/4 miles!
Methinks there is summat wrong with RTT at Penrith??
091M14MN03 13:38 GLASGOW C to EUSTON 03/05/15 Multiple unit (planned)
Running as 15:00 PENRITH to EUSTON 03/05/15 Multiple unit (planned)
Booked Actual Applicable Timetable Service
arr dep arr dep
PENRITH 15:00 15:00A RT TIME
TEBAY 15:23 15:16A 7 EARLY
OXEN 15:32 15:34 15:26A 15:33A 1 EARLY
That train appears to have travelled back in time.reb0118 said:
According to RTT, this train, this train and this train all appear to have left 45 seconds, 30 seconds and 15 seconds early respectively. That's clearly a major problem that needs addressing by upper management and people need to be sacked and the watchmakers need to be sued and imagine all those poor passengers left stranded at Crewe overnight (there must be crowds of them) because their planning was immaculate but it wasn't their fault the careless staff left a fraction of a minute early
I say if the train departs up to 2 minutes early and you miss it then it's your own bloody fault. Buses leave early all the time and you don't see people whinging about it. If the train leaves 3 whole minutes early then you may have a case. But in my experience the last trains often tend to depart a minute late rather than a minute early anyway.
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Jonfun
Established Member
Trains shouldn't be departing anywhere close to three minutes early, and if it does it's abhorrent to blame the passenger for having the audacity to turn up before the published departure time.
Of course, the Guard might misread the sheets or the clock on the boards might be wrong (seen both happen first hand), or insert other cause here. Mistakes happen and they're unlikely to be a massive issue in the grand scheme of things.
What is an issue is when trains are doing it regularly. I used to travel to work from my local station which was the one before the crew depot. You could tell at a quick glance of Genius (or RTT, or insert other system here) which trains were conveying a Guard who was about to take their break or go home, because you'd just see a list of blue "2E, 3E, 4E" and by the time you got to the (tiny) station you'd get to the platform with a good minute or two before xx:xx:30 when the doors should be shutting you'd see you'd been tail lamped. That then subsequently screws over passengers with connections later on in the journey.
Of course, the Guard might misread the sheets or the clock on the boards might be wrong (seen both happen first hand), or insert other cause here. Mistakes happen and they're unlikely to be a massive issue in the grand scheme of things.
What is an issue is when trains are doing it regularly. I used to travel to work from my local station which was the one before the crew depot. You could tell at a quick glance of Genius (or RTT, or insert other system here) which trains were conveying a Guard who was about to take their break or go home, because you'd just see a list of blue "2E, 3E, 4E" and by the time you got to the (tiny) station you'd get to the platform with a good minute or two before xx:xx:30 when the doors should be shutting you'd see you'd been tail lamped. That then subsequently screws over passengers with connections later on in the journey.
It's also wrong when buses do it and people DO whinge about it.
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