Trains guards - how far should they go?

[IanPooleTrains]

Here is a quick one for you:

On a Chiltern Clubman today out of Moor Street heading for Banbury so I could get to Guildford, me and my brother just chilling back in style when a guy gets on at Dorridge.

Guard comes up after Dorridge and asks for tickets but this guy that had got on at Dorridge was asleep and the guard walked back, jhoking with myself, my brother and a female passenger that he shouldnt put his hands and wake up him and then walks away. After that, the guy coviniently wakes up and looks at the guard walking away from him.

Now, this isn't a bitch at guards not doing their job but my question is simple, should the guard have got the gentlemen's attention and asked for his ticket or was he right to not touch him?

Discuss!

 

[scotsman]

Yes, absolutely. You can't predict how they will react, and it's not worth a smack in the face.

 

[EM2]

Depends.
As station staff, we have a strict 'hands-off' policy

 

[BestWestern]

It's strictly 'hands off' as otherwise you can end up in all sorts of bother. Even if you gently tap them on the shoulder, if they're determined they'll just pretend to be oblivious to it anyway. And as soon as you lay hands on, even lightly and with innocent intent, you are opening yourself up to all manner of spurious accusations. It's a bugger, but such is society I guess. Only time I go further is with the sleeping drunk at the end of the line scenario, and then if a raised voice fails it's a hefty blow on the whistle, I generally find that to be effective

 

[Clip]

Yes. And im surprised at the guard for not doing so..

 

[BrummyBoy]

Personally i always thought it was down to the discression of the guard

 

[BestWestern]

Yes. And im surprised at the guard for not doing so..

I suppose some might think blowing a whistle in the earhole of a [supposedly] innocent sleeping passenger mid-journey a bit OTT...?! I wouldn't do it in that situation, I must admit. It really is only for 'last stop' circumstances IMO!!

 

[Anvil1984]

Never touch a passenger physically unless its wanted (ie assistance off a train) otherwise you can leave yourself open to accusations. Whether he should have checked his ticket or not is another matter sometimes if I'm suspicious then I'll watch slyly from a distance but will first spend time with those who may want my help. Customer Service comes before revenue

 

[Crossover]

I have once seen a TM try to wake a passenger a few weeks ago, but that was because he was leant over and half blocking the aisle and so the trolley service couldn't get through - I think it was done more out of making sure the guy was OK, he had evidently had far too much to drink and didn't really know where he was.

He eventually woke up and after trying to convince the TM he had come from Crewe (we were heading southbound between Macclesfield and Stoke) and needed a ticket, was taken off to the vestibule to be issued with one...

 

[BestWestern]

...are you sure he wasn't taken off to be manhandled out of public sight? LOL

 

[Clip]

I suppose some might think blowing a whistle in the earhole of a [supposedly] innocent sleeping passenger mid-journey a bit OTT...?! I wouldn't do it in that situation, I must admit. It really is only for 'last stop' circumstances IMO!!

Chiltern Guards/RPIs seem to have a problem in the northern end of the route as they do seem to be slack - compared to the guards/RPIs in the southern end but they should always always ask someone for their ticket..

This is interesting to know though

 

[BestWestern]

Chiltern Guards/RPIs seem to have a problem in the northern end of the route as they do seem to be slack - compared to the guards/RPIs in the southern end but they should always always ask someone for their ticket..

This is interesting to know though

The fundamental problem is what to do about somebody who appears, genuinely or otherwise, to be beyond reasonable communication. Of course, you will try and wake them by whatever fairly reasonable means you might choose, but if they don't stir then, frankly, there isn't a lot that you can do. You really don't want to start over-stepping the mark by laying hands on them or taking excessive measures, like blasting their eardrums, unless they are clearly taking the rise. Other passengers will doubtless think it a little aggressive if you start bawling and shouting at them in the middle of a busy coach! All you can really do is keep an eye on them and come back regularly to see if they are 'awake'. It's irritating that some people will use such childish tactics, but there it is :roll:

 

[Crossover]

...are you sure he wasn't taken off to be manhandled out of public sight? LOL

Indeed!

It kind of went along the lines of TM came along (after being tipped off by the slightly annoyed catering guy) and tried to wake him up, and quibbed that he probably didn't have a ticket.

When the TM managed to get some sense out of the guy (who was only going as far as Stoke), the TM invited him out of the carriage, probably in case anything did kick off. The guy came back a few mins later clutching a ticket and his debit card. He did get off at Stoke (was half expecting him not to) though I think the staff made sure he stayed off (and can't blame them if they did tbh)!

 

[BestWestern]

Hehe!! Sounds like a case of someone who probably would've kicked off and refused normally, but was p*ssed enough to not notice what was going on! Did the annoyed catering guy manage to flog him some grog?!

 

[Clip]

I suppose some might think blowing a whistle in the earhole of a [supposedly] innocent sleeping passenger mid-journey a bit OTT...?! I wouldn't do it in that situation, I must admit. It really is only for 'last stop' circumstances IMO!!

Im not saying blow a whistle but a gentle shake will do. Happened to me often when ive been asleep and thats fine

 

[Crossover]

Hehe!! Sounds like a case of someone who probably would've kicked off and refused normally, but was p*ssed enough to not notice what was going on! Did the annoyed catering guy manage to flog him some grog?!

Pretty much was the case - I wasn't expecting it to go as smoothly as it did I have to say.

Think the trolley passed through after he had been taken to sort a ticket so no hangover cure for him!

 

[Clip]

The fundamental problem is what to do about somebody who appears, genuinely or otherwise, to be beyond reasonable communication. Of course, you will try and wake them by whatever fairly reasonable means you might choose, but if they don't stir then, frankly, there isn't a lot that you can do. You really don't want to start over-stepping the mark by laying hands on them or taking excessive measures, like blasting their eardrums, unless they are clearly taking the rise. Other passengers will doubtless think it a little aggressive if you start bawling and shouting at them in the middle of a busy coach! All you can really do is keep an eye on them and come back regularly to see if they are 'awake'. It's irritating that some people will use such childish tactics, but there it is :roll:

Sorry , did i advocate the blowing of a whistle in someones ear?

?????:roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:

 

[BestWestern]

Well, not quite I guess, but you get my drift?! Although I don't think I'd risk a 'gentle shake' either though, not everyone is quite so laid back - or honest! - as your good self I fear. Although perhaps if I had a packet of Digestives on hand to soothe them.... Hehe

 

[SS4]

You can't have digestives without a cup of tea for dunking though

Back on topic I can't see there being any hard and fast rules although naturally safety must come first. But you have to ask yourself is someone snoozing on a morning train in first class more likely to kick off then someone asleep in standard surrounded by empty alcohol bottles?

 

[Clip]

Well, not quite I guess, but you get my drift?! Although I don't think I'd risk a 'gentle shake' either though, not everyone is quite so laid back - or honest! - as your good self I fear. Although perhaps if I had a packet of Digestives on hand to soothe them.... Hehe

Just stuff the digestive in their mouth LOL.

But the point is - is that when you have a long line there are people who travel far and can claim to be asleep then when they get to the southern part can be awake with a valid ticket.. Makes it easy to defraud the TOC..

Though if they know the ticket collectors then why not let them sleep? Cos then they get lazy and dont buy a ticket...

Oh i could go on but i must admit i love to have a kip on the way into work..

 

[BestWestern]

You can't have digestives without a cup of tea for dunking though

Back on topic I can't see there being any hard and fast rules although naturally safety must come first. But you have to ask yourself is someone snoozing on a morning train in first class more likely to kick off then someone asleep in standard surrounded by empty alcohol bottles?

Granted it's not something that is made a big deal of - at least not by my TOC anyhow - but ultimately if you do choose to use physical means to try and wake somebody, however honest your intentions, you are running a risk of landing in deep water. And how would you judge who to touch and who not? A 40 year old bloke is OK, but a 15 year old girl isn't? It might be trivial to most law-abiding honest people, but if somebody is dishonest and doesn't want to be hassled for payment, it's likely to be in their nature to make a nuisance of themselves, and it also provides a handy means of defelecting what should be happening to them at that point. Equallly if somebody is honest and simply takes objection to being touched by somebody they don't know from Adam, they could easily choose to complain from the viewpoint of an offended valued customer.
Some Guards will choose to do it regardless, in the same way that some Guards will happily chuck people off at unstaffed stations, which is a no-no stricly speaking but still happens regularly. But ultimately if it hits the fan, it'll be my shoulders that have to carry it. I'm not vanilla, but when it comes to putting oneself in dodgy territory for the sake of a couple of quid, I tend to look at the bigger picture!
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Oh i could go on but i must admit i love to have a kip on the way into work..

...I hope you conceal the biscuits prior to embarking on your sleep, 'case some previously sleeping fare-dodging scroat nicks 'em You've got me wanting digestives now, at 2 in the morning. Is that wrong....??

 

[SS4]

Granted it's not something that is made a big deal of - at least not by my TOC anyhow - but ultimately if you do choose to use physical means to try and wake somebody, however honest your intentions, you are running a risk of landing in deep water. And how would you judge who to touch and who not? A 40 year old bloke is OK, but a 15 year old girl isn't?

Balance of probabilities although I do see your point

It might be trivial to most law-abiding honest people, but if somebody is dishonest and doesn't want to be hassled for payment, it's likely to be in their nature to make a nuisance of themselves, and it also provides a handy means of defelecting what should be happening to them at that point. Equallly if somebody is honest and simply takes objection to being touched by somebody they don't know from Adam, they could easily choose to complain from the viewpoint of an offended valued customer.

Understandable, I overlooked that. Guess I'm too optimistic about the Great British Public

You've got me wanting digestives now, at 2 in the morning. Is that wrong....??

I fancy digestives now, sit in front of Supermarket Sweep while dunking them

 

[Clip]

...I hope you conceal the biscuits prior to embarking on your sleep, 'case some previously sleeping fare-dodging scroat nicks 'em You've got me wanting digestives now, at 2 in the morning. Is that wrong....??

I have them separated in three different pockets.. All depending on which side i go to sleep on


If not i get out the custard creams and then who cares about a ticket.As everyone loves a custard cream.. Even the early morning guards

 

[BestWestern]

I have them separated in three different pockets.. All depending on which side i go to sleep on


If not i get out the custard creams and then who cares about a ticket.As everyone loves a custard cream.. Even the early morning guards

Ooh a custard cream, they're my favourite Oh what the hell, go sit in First Class ...oh no hang on, it's an FGW Sprinter, bummer Would you like a Fig Roll??

Lol, enough of this late night biscuitry, one must shuffle off to bed. Via the biscuit tin methinks....

 

[Supersaint]

Here is a quick one for you:

On a Chiltern Clubman today out of Moor Street heading for Banbury so I could get to Guildford, me and my brother just chilling back in style when a guy gets on at Dorridge.

Guard comes up after Dorridge and asks for tickets but this guy that had got on at Dorridge was asleep and the guard walked back, jhoking with myself, my brother and a female passenger that he shouldnt put his hands and wake up him and then walks away. After that, the guy coviniently wakes up and looks at the guard walking away from him.

Now, this isn't a bitch at guards not doing their job but my question is simple, should the guard have got the gentlemen's attention and asked for his ticket or was he right to not touch him?

Discuss!

Think I can beat that one, last summer we got on a train heading back from Poole to Totton (Southampton) in the early evening, I went to use the loo in our carriage but was occupied so used the next one along & didn’t think no more until 15 minutes later my wife also wanted the loo & tried that toilet again, same thing, then someone close by said “he’s been in there since Weymouth as I also got on at Weymouth & saw him go in” , I then went up to the loo & knocked the door & said how long you going to be & are you ok, a reply came back saying “I’ve got a bad stomach & need the loo”, I left it 5 minutes then went back to repeat the question, same answer & then I said where you travelling to & he told me Clapham Junction !, the guard comes along to check our tickets so I tell him about this & asked him what was he going to do, He said there’s nothing I can do, I then said we have all bought tickets for the train & if he hasn’t one don’t you think you should challenge him or ask if he’s ok, with that I got a round of applause from other passengers as they all got the same answer from this person in the loo. We left are train at Totton with him still in there & just as I got off I told the guard “you know where he’s going to get off so ask him then for his ticket”.
Not sure what happened but 99% sure he got away without paying .

 

[Tom B]

To flip it over, what should a passenger do if they require assistance from the guard and the latter has fallen asleep on one of the seats?! (Yes, it has happened to me).

 

[WestCoast]

This a good example of how ticket barriers can work with onboard checks to help prevent the sleeping/toilet scams. Nevertheless I think when someone is asleep they should be woken, after all they are not on public property. On aircraft cabin crew have no problem waking people up by tapping or even shaking. And there can be drunkards on planes too

 

[Greenback]

I agree. I have been woken up when genuinely asleep on a FGW train by being gently touched on the shoulder. The passenger may even be ill. I saw a chap the other day who looked as though he'd passed away, he was in such a deep sleep that he didn;t look as though he was breathing!

 

[tbtc]

All Guards should be issued with Ken-Dodd-style tickling sticks forthwith

 

[IanXC]

I was rather impressed when I recently saw a CrossCountry TM tap his ticket clipy rather effectively on the seat casing infront and behind a sleeping passenger, worked pretty quickly. I'm sure it woke up someone else at the other end of the carriage too! Although it didn't seem out of place or OTT.