Trains guards - how far should they go?

[ChrisCooper]

Worst one I've had was as a passenger sitting in the window seat and finding the person on my outside had fallen into a deep sleep, and I was approaching my stop. I tried to be as loud and clumsy as possible whilst getting my things ready, but got no response, so in the end I just climbed over them.

You do have to be so careful with physical contact in the day and age. As has been said you are opening youself up to assault yourself, or claims of assault against you. Remember that someone being woken up could react hostile even if that is not their normal behaviour, if they feel under threat. Poke a sleeping animal and it does not matter how tame or friendly it is, you are asking to get bit. People are no different.

Basically the only option is to either get the police involved, or if it's suspected the person is ill, medical staff.

 

[Helvellyn]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

We have a strict no touch policy on SWT. A tap with the carriage key on window/wall panel, and perhaps a "ticket please" is enough to get the attention of most people. But as to shaking them awake? Big no-no. I've heard of colleagues who have done this getting abuse from the passenger along the lines of how dare you touch me, etc. Then again, on late trains and a passenger falls asleep you get them asking why you let them sleep past their stop! (Firstly I can't remember where everyone is getting off; secondly the train runs to a timetable, not a ten minute stop at each station whilst I walk through 8 coaches checking everyone is awake and that they haven't missed their stop). The only time I tend to gently shake someone on the shoulder is at the end of the line, as it's everyone off.

 

[CarterUSM]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

We have a strict no touch policy on SWT. A tap with the carriage key on window/wall panel, and perhaps a "ticket please" is enough to get the attention of most people. But as to shaking them awake? Big no-no. I've heard of colleagues who have done this getting abuse from the passenger along the lines of how dare you touch me, etc. Then again, on late trains and a passenger falls asleep you get them asking why you let them sleep past their stop! (Firstly I can't remember where everyone is getting off; secondly the train runs to a timetable, not a ten minute stop at each station whilst I walk through 8 coaches checking everyone is awake and that they haven't missed their stop). The only time I tend to gently shake someone on the shoulder is at the end of the line, as it's everyone off.

That's all fair do's.

 

[TomJ93]

I was awoken by a Virgin TM once, he didn't seem to happy with me.

 

[Flamingo]

I'll go for a loud "tickets please", then a louder "Tickets please", if they are not responding to that, I will prod them with my "zypher" (against policy, but so far I've never had a complaint - well one, but he had no ticket, so I didn't care if I was breaching his "yuman rights" as he claimed - he got told that if he wanted to complain, he could do so to the police I was calling at Reading to do him for having no ticket.)

If there is still no response, then I go into "first aid" mode, and start the whole "Hello, can you hear me?" in a loud voice so the other passengers can hear, and tell them (loudly, so others can hear) "I'm going to check your pulse, I'm the train guard, I'm trying to help you" as if they are not responding to verbal stimuli they are unconscious, and I need to assess if they need an ambulance or not. That is my argument, and I stick to it when they do eventually wake up (as they always do!).

Just to let you know, there are four levels of consciousness, from a first aid point of view
1. Alert
2. Responds to Voice
3. Responds to pain
4. Unresponsive.

I've never had to go past stage 3 with the most reluctant passenger.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

If there is still no response, then I go into "first aid" mode, and start the whole "Hello, can you hear me?" in a loud voice so the other passengers can hear, and tell them (loudly, so others can hear) "I'm going to check your pulse, I'm the train guard, I'm trying to help you" as if they are not responding to verbal stimuli they are unconscious, and I need to assess if they need an ambulance or not. That is my argument, and I stick to it when they do eventually wake up (as they always do!).

Tip for you - brush the eyelashes gently. If they eyes then twitch (unavoidable reaction) they're not unconscious. If they don't, go on to the AVPU scale. Learnt that from a Paramedic on a first aid course.

 

[chuckles1066]

you do have to be so careful with physical contact in the day and age. As has been said you are opening youself up to assault yourself, or claims of assault against you.

RIP UK.

I imagine you're all very proud?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

RIP UK.

I imagine you're all very proud?

Don't worry - he's wrong. It cannot open up any kind of assault claims if the person is asleep! And it's not like they're then going to claim they were awake, because then they would be done for the ticket.

 

[Flamingo]

I have heard a story about a chap falling asleep in church during a sermon, and his wife prodding him - without opening his eyes, he reaches into his jacket and pulls out his season ticket!

 

[Dolive22]

If there is still no response, then I go into "first aid" mode, and start the whole "Hello, can you hear me?" in a loud voice so the other passengers can hear, and tell them (loudly, so others can hear) "I'm going to check your pulse, I'm the train guard, I'm trying to help you" as if they are not responding to verbal stimuli they are unconscious, and I need to assess if they need an ambulance or not. That is my argument, and I stick to it when they do eventually wake up (as they always do!).

Just to let you know, there are four levels of consciousness, from a first aid point of view
1. Alert
2. Responds to Voice
3. Responds to pain
4. Unresponsive.

I've never had to go past stage 3 with the most reluctant passenger.

You could always try taking their radial pulse in the wrist. On some people you have to dig in a bit to find it. If they don't respond they probably do need an ambulance.

 

[Flamingo]

You could always try taking their radial pulse in the wrist. On some people you have to dig in a bit to find it. If they don't respond they probably do need an ambulance.

The wrist is for amateurs! I was thinking of femoral!

 

[Dolive22]

Apparently the femoral is slightly riskier, although obviously more reliable and more attention grabbing. My other concern is that someone is more likely to kick off if you are poking their neck.

 

[Flamingo]

Naw, the jugular is tricky - exposing your incisors whilst looking for it is always good for a laugh, though!

 

[Matt Taylor]

We have a strict no touch policy on SWT.

No we don't, I have been on two different conflict awareness courses with SWT in the last six months and it's been made clear that the 'no touch policy' is a myth. Reasonable force in self defence or to prevent an imminent attack is allowed, the SWT policy is no different to the law. Nevertheless, blowing a whistle in someone's ear or tapping them with a T key is innappropriate and asking for trouble IMO.

 

[the sniper]

Basically the only option is to either get the police involved, or if it's suspected the person is ill, medical staff.

You are joking? Your so scared of waking someone up that you'd rather call the police then just tap someone on the shoulder! Please do that, and feel silly when you rightly get done for wasting police time... I don't know who'll be more embarrassed, you or the poor, innocent and bemused awoken passenger.

Reading posts like that, you can imagine some of the time wasting call that 999 must get.

RIP UK.

I imagine you're all very proud?

No surprise that you've latched onto this tale of paranoid woe...

Personally, I do whatever I can to avoid offending my shadow, as I'm really, really scared that, with this being modern Britain an' all, it'll slit my throat as soon as I turn my back on it! :roll:

 

[185]

1. Passenger 'looks around' as guard walks into carriage.
2. Passenger falls quickly asleep.
3. Guard shouts 'any more tickets'
4. Guard shouts it again several more times.
5. Passenger is only one going to 'station X'.
6. As train stops, no-one is on platform getting on.
7. Guard presses door release, then door close within a microsecond afterwards.
8. Ding ding.
9. Mr sleepyhead whose door opened about 3cm runs around train like headless chicken.
10. Result

 

[strange6]

What about pretending to stumble and whacking them over the head with your ticket machine as you try to catch your balance??

 

[ralphchadkirk]

What about pretending to stumble and whacking them over the head with your ticket machine as you try to catch your balance??

Probably not a good idea.

 

[strange6]

Probably not a good idea.

Sorry, missed the

 

[Clip]

When i used to commute into london i used to either see the guard first and show him my ticekt and sit down where ever he was if there was a seat or put my season ticekt into a holder that could be seen if i fell asleep..

simple things and saves your sleep getting interrupted and the guard then doesnt have to hassle you for your ticket

 

[strange6]

When i used to commute into london i used to either see the guard first and show him my ticekt and sit down where ever he was if there was a seat or put my season ticekt into a holder that could be seen if i fell asleep..

simple things and saves your sleep getting interrupted and the guard then doesnt have to hassle you for your ticket

Must have been a hell of a long journey for you to do that!

 

[Flamingo]

What about pretending to stumble and whacking them over the head with your ticket machine as you try to catch your balance??

Do you follow me around, stealing my ideas?

 

[Clip]

Must have been a hell of a long journey for you to do that!

04:45 margate to london daily.. nearly 2 hours lol

 

[strange6]

Do you follow me around, stealing my ideas?

What a great guard you are!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

04:45 margate to london daily.. nearly 2 hours lol

Well, I think you deserve a sleep with that day!

 

[Ticket Man]

I always found it easy to wake people up when doing tickets, they get me asking them at normal volume twice and if that fails, the ticket stamper tapping on their head rest never lets me down