Trains from Leicester to Bedford?

[louis97]

Maybe the answer is to replace the EM Parkway stop on the fast Nottingham with a Luton or Bedford stop, and stop one of the other trains at EM Parkway instead to give a more even interval. However I think EMT quite like the current arrangement because the Nottingham fast has plenty of space for their MegabusPlus passengers.

Non-stopping EM Parkway isn't really an opinion with the Sheffield-London semi fast ahead with its call at Loughborough, its close enough as it is - so there isn't really any time savings to allow for an additional call at Bedford or Luton, even if there was a time saving, you would still need more time than the time saving would be to call at Bedford going south, it costs a lot more time going south than going north, not sure how Luton would affect timings. Additional stops with no gained time could mean the potential that the FCC normally going behind at Harpenden would have to go ahead and therefore an overall increase in journey time.

Worth considering going north that the xx15 and xx25 departures from STP are already 5 minutes apart by Leicester, with a Luton or Bedford call they'd be even closer!

Best option in my opinion would be to call the Sheffield semi fast at Kettering, provides a perfect connection off the Corby in both directions, with not really any increase in journey time after 125 project is complete specially with the northbound service being so close to the xx15 at Leicester. Towards London there are 2 trains from the north that call at Kettering on a weekday, and they seem to work fine.

Stopping the Nottingham fast is not really an option as they already pass Kettering for London at xx23½ and with the stop the service will be likely leaving about xx26/27 therefore conflicting with the Corby-Londons xx27 departure time, of course xx24-xx27 then does not meet the 5 minutes minimum connection time there. Moving the Corby-London isn't really an option as EMT have to run an half hourly service between Kettering and London as per there franchise service agreement, not that I am exactly sure how that is defined, with the service currently xx27 and xx56. The other direction the Corby generally arrives at xx00, and the Nottingham fast passing about xx03, stopping at Kettering would mean the xx25 Sheffield would catch up, although in this direction the minimum connection time would be met.

This may still mean only 1 train per hour between Kettering and Market Harborough, but I am sure 1 train per hour between the 2 places must be enough, although northbound the xx27 to Nottingham will need retimed a few minutes to connect with the train from Corby, which is currently xx26-xx27, this then ensures that people doing Corby - Market Harborough don't have an hour wait at Kettering!

 

[edwin_m]

Interesting thoughts Louis - the Nottingham-London fast is often already slowed on is approach to Trent South due to catching up the previous train. I think what all this says is that there is no perfect timetable for the MML and the things we suggest on this forum are already likely to have been thought about by the timetable planners and dismissed for the sorts of reasons suggested by later posters!

 

[tbtc]

Tbh Nottingham's "fast" service isn't all that fast these days anyway since it has gone from a 222 with 1 stop to a HST with 2 and I don't agree that a call at Luton is necessary. Without the Corby farce it would have 2tph northbound but no Corby "deserves" an hourly direct train :roll:

It was a good timetable under MM, but Corby has ruined the EMT timetable (not EMT's fault, I should add).

If you assume for a moment that the three mainline stations between Leicester and Bedford all deserve two trains an hour to London (?) and Corby takes half of the Kettering and Wellingborough services then that means:

1. A "fast" service from further north will have to stop at Market Harborough (because its the one station south of Leicester that you can't serve with the Corby service)
2. The service from Leicester to services south of Leicester is going to be poorer (one train an hour to Kettering and Wellingborough, and no service to some of the Thameslink stations - unless you make it stop at Bedford AND Luton AND Luton Airport, which would be very slow)

What's the answer?

Wait for EastWest services from Oxford (etc) to pick up some of the Market Harborough / Kettering/ Wellingborough stops? But then they'd lose their London services.

Give Kettering and Wellingborough three London trains an hour (so that they get two Leicester services *and* the Corby service)?

Slow down more longer distance services to deal with the "middle distance" passengers?

A whole recast post-electrification (when EMUs will mean everything should be able to accelerate at the same speed - and no slam doors to slow services down, so not the 222/HST difference that we now have).

Hope that EM Parkway starts to pick up more - maybe by extending some local services beyond Derby/ Nottingham to connect there to London trains?

 

[Mugby]

When EMT did the timetable re-cast, why did they leave such an abysmal Sunday service?

 

[Bedpan]

It was a good timetable under MM, but Corby has ruined the EMT timetable (not EMT's fault, I should add).

If you assume for a moment that the three mainline stations between Leicester and Bedford all deserve two trains an hour to London (?) and Corby takes half of the Kettering and Wellingborough services then that means:

1. A "fast" service from further north will have to stop at Market Harborough (because its the one station south of Leicester that you can't serve with the Corby service)
2. The service from Leicester to services south of Leicester is going to be poorer (one train an hour to Kettering and Wellingborough, and no service to some of the Thameslink stations - unless you make it stop at Bedford AND Luton AND Luton Airport, which would be very slow)

What's the answer?

Wait for EastWest services from Oxford (etc) to pick up some of the Market Harborough / Kettering/ Wellingborough stops? But then they'd lose their London services.

Give Kettering and Wellingborough three London trains an hour (so that they get two Leicester services *and* the Corby service)?

I don't think they'd have to stop at Bedford and Luton and Luton Airport Parkway, one Thameslink station (say Bedford) would be adequate although admittedly would require two changes for stations Radlett - Kentish Town for most of the day.

Its nice to have a direct train, but what is higher on my wish list is having a service which provides more than one train an hour, even if that means having to change somewhere along the route.

 

[tbtc]

I don't think they'd have to stop at Bedford and Luton and Luton Airport Parkway, one Thameslink station (say Bedford) would be adequate although admittedly would require two changes for stations Radlett - Kentish Town for most of the day.

Its nice to have a direct train, but what is higher on my wish list is having a service which provides more than one train an hour, even if that means having to change somewhere along the route.

There's some demand from Luton and Bedford to travel to the East Midlands (and beyond).

However, I'd guess that there'd be at least as much demand from people in the East Midlands to travel to Luton Airport (than to Luton itself)?

I don't know how best to split things - there's certainly no need for EMT to cater for local journeys between Luton Airport/ Luton/ Bedford, so I'd accept if trains only stopped at one of these three stations (compared to now when you can use EMT between Luton or Luton Airport).

But you then get into the problem of

• trying to provide some kind of local service between the stations north of Bedford (i.e. not just skip-stopping, where each London - Leicester service only makes one stop south of Leicester, so that there's no way of getting from say Kettering to Market Harborough)
• trying not to give a town a really bad split between their two services an hour - a 20/40 split is maybe acceptable, but having your only two trains within ten/fifteen minutes of each other would be a waste
• trying not to slow down any one service significantly, so that Leicester - London passengers are fairly evenly split between services - unlike the 170 days when the stoppers were so slow that they were overtaken
• keeping some "fast" element for the longer distance services

Good luck to anyone squaring that circle - I don't think I can!

 

[edwin_m]

...and keeping it all within the capacity limit imposed by four platforms at St Pancras and five trains per hour for MML (unless there is some way of increasing the latter).

 

[louis97]

five trains per hour for MML (unless there is some way of increasing the latter).

You could get away with 6 trains per hour easily, EMT reguarly use this extra path for any railtours they operate, it leaves at 45 past the hour, the path the other way is arriving about 43 past the hour.

It works the same way as the xx15 path north and the xx13 arrival path, the FCC ahead goes onto the slows at Harpenden going north, and going south the train passes Harpenden just before the FCC goes over on to the fasts.

 

[Philip Elliott]

It was a good timetable under MM, but Corby has ruined the EMT timetable (not EMT's fault, I should add).

Corby was a franchise option subject to local council funding. Stagecoach intended to terminate the 5th path at Kettering from the start if Corby hadn't happended - there was no intention to continue 2tph semi - fast to Leicester. The MML timetable was good south of Leicester but not so good north - Nottingham trains were at xx.54/xx.05 and Derby trains at xx.24/xx.39

 

[MCR247]

- Nottingham trains were at xx.54/xx.05 and Derby trains at xx.24/xx.39

Do you mean leaving St Pancras at those times?

 

[louis97]

Do you mean leaving St Pancras at those times?

Think he means leaving Leicester, sounds about right with departures from London being:

xx00 - Derby (xx24 at LEI)
xx25 - Sheffield (xx39 at LEI)
xx30 - Nottingham (xx54 at LEI)
xx55 - Nottingham (xx05 at LEI)

 

[Buttsy]

How about 2x4 car meridians on the Corbys with a split at Kettering for one to go clockwise (Market Harborough-Leicester-Melton Mowbray-Oakham-Corby) and the other anti-clockwise, therefore keeping the connections to Luton/Bedford from Market Harborough (remove the stop on the Nottingham service) and opening up East of Leicester to a regular London service...

Pipe dream I expect.

 

[Tomnick]

I'm not sure that the demand from Oakham and Melton would justify regular running north of Corby -you're looking at an additional two or three units, plus whatever you'd need to run a Leicester portion off the Corby trains. Is it worth it?

 

[JamesRowden]

I think that the service between Bedford and Leicester should improve in 2017 when East West Rail services are due to start running between Oxford and Bedford.

If it is practical I think that it would be beneficial to have a semi-fast London to Sheffield service that stops at Bedford to create a connection between Oxford and the Midland Mainline north of Bedford. A connection with a stopping service would also be required. The Oxford to Bedford service could alternatively be extended north from Bedford to run as a stopping service or a semi-fast service with a connection with the other.