Trains and the Rugby World Cup

[OneOffDave]

I have noticed a fault with the World Cup Travel info: Milton Keynes Station is NOT The closest station to the Estadio Della Franchise. Fenny Stratford is

The journey planner tells you to go down roads that will be closed to get to some of the car parks so it's not that reliable. Even the map produced by the council has errors on it.

 

[PHILIPE]

ATW have made numerous alterations today for Wales v Fiji at Cardiff and appended below:-
Please don't ask me to interpret anything but it would appear there will be additional capacity along the Marches route.

Short notice amendments to Arriva Trains Wales services on Thursday 1 October

Due to a major event at the Millennium Stadium, Cardiff, the following services are amended for Thursday 1 October 2015. We apologise for the inconvenience this will cause you.


Valleys and Cardiff local routes


17.17 Treherbert to Cardiff Central

This service will not call at Llandaff, Cathays, Cardiff Queen Street or Cardiff Central.
Customers should change at Radyr for the 18.07 departure to Barry Island.

18.25 Barry Island to Cardiff Central

This service will terminate at Cogan, not serving Grangetown and Cardiff Central.
Customers should travel on the 19.00 departure from Cogan to Cardiff Central.

18.32 Penarth to Cardiff Central

This service will terminate at Grangetown, not serving Cardiff Central.
Customers should travel on the 18.53 from Grangetown departure to Cardiff Central.

19.04 Radyr to Cardiff Central (City Line)
This service will not run and alternative arrangements are being provided.

20.04 Radyr to Cardiff Central (City Line)
This service will run 30 minutes later at 20.34.

21.20 Penarth to Cardiff Central
This service will depart Penarth later at 21.32.

18.20 Maesteg to Cardiff Central
This service will leave later from Pencoed, Llanharan and Pontyclun, arriving Cardiff Central later.
Customers for Cardiff Central can change at Bridgend for the 19.01 departure to London Paddington.

19.20 Maesteg to Cardiff Central
This service will terminate at Bridgend, not serving Pencoed, Llanharan, Pontyclun and Cardiff Central and alternative arrangements are being provided.
Customers for Cardiff Central can change at Bridgend for the 20.01 departure to London Paddington.

20.15 Maesteg to Cardiff Central
This service will terminate at Bridgend, not serving Pencoed, Llanharan, Pontyclun and Cardiff Central and alternative arrangements are being provided.
Customers for Cardiff Central can change at Bridgend for the 21.01 departure to London Paddington.

21.15 Maesteg to Cardiff Central
This service will leave later from Pencoed, Llanharan and Pontyclun, arriving Cardiff Central at 22.29.



The rest of the Arriva Trains Wales network



09.40 Crewe to Chester This service will not run.
Customers should use the 09.54 service to Holyhead.

14.48 Gloucester to Fishguard Harbour
This service will terminate at Carmarthen with a rail replacement bus at 1805 to Fishguard Harbour

19.08 Fishguard Harbour to Clarbeston Road
20.05 Clarbeston Road to Fishguard Harbour
20.50 Fishguard Harbour to Carmarthen

These services will not run and alternative arrangements are being provided.

15.10 Swansea to Chester This service will terminate at Crewe at 18.43.
Customers should use the 18.58 service to Holyhead.

17.08 Milford Haven to Cardiff Central
This service will terminate Bridgend at 19.40, not serving Cardiff Central.
Customers should use the 20.01 departure from Bridgend to London Paddington.

18.20 Maesteg to Cardiff Central
This service will leave later from Pencoed, Llanharan and Pontyclun, arriving Cardiff Central later.
Customers for Cardiff Central can change at Bridgend for the 19.01 departure to London Paddington.

18.50 Carmarthen to Cardiff Central
This service will run later from Swansea at 20.03, arriving Cardiff Central at 20.58.

19.12 Milford Haven to Cardiff Central
This service terminates at Swansea. Customers should travel on the 21.45 departure from Swansea to Cardiff Central.

19.20 Maesteg to Cardiff Central
This service will terminate at Bridgend, not serving Pencoed, Llanharan, Pontyclun and Cardiff Central and alternative arrangements are being provided.

Customers for Cardiff Central can change at Bridgend for the 20.01 departure to London Paddington.

20.15 Maesteg to Cardiff Central
This service will terminate at Bridgend, not serving Pencoed, Llanharan, Pontyclun and Cardiff Central and alternative arrangements are being provided.

Customers for Cardiff Central can change at Bridgend for the 21.01 departure to London Paddington.

21.15 Maesteg to Cardiff Central
This service will leave later from Pencoed, Llanharan and Pontyclun, arriving Cardiff Central at 22.29.

The following services will not run and alternative arrangements are being provided

◦20.08 Llandudno to Llandudno Junction
◦21.11 Llandudno to Llandudno Junction
◦19.55 Llandudno Junction to Llandudno
◦20.58 Llandudno Junction to Llandudno

14.30 Manchester Piccadilly (17.41 from Cardiff Central) to Milford Haven
This service will be 2 cars instead of 3 cars

17.50 Manchester Piccadilly to Holyhead
This service will be 2 cars instead of 4 cars. Please use the 1650 or 1850 service instead if your ticket allows.

2250 Cardiff Central to Gloucester (additional service) - change at Newport onto 2315 rail replacement bus for intermediate stations Severn Tunnel Junction, Caldicot, Chepstow, Lydney and Gloucester

 

[dk1]

Goodness me that's some headache for the train planning department. I would imagine the end of this Rugby lark can't come soon enough for the TOCs.

 

[quarella]

Goodness me that's some headache for the train planning department. I would imagine the end of this Rugby lark can't come soon enough for the TOCs.

Also a headache for those trying to put the theory into practice.

 

[Greenback]

It's also a bit of pain for those who travel on the amended services and will face some inconvenience as a result.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's also a bit of pain for those who travel on the amended services and will face some inconvenience as a result.

It seems particularly raw that on the short-formed service you're only allowed to use others *if your ticket allows*. I rather think ticket restrictions should be lifted if, as I suspect, people may be left behind.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Looks like ATW have taken onboard some feedback anyway as they have extended the segregated queuing system out into Wood street for tonights game so it shouldn't be as much of a scrum (mind the pun) to get into the right queue!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQO5G-UWEAQCdjI.jpg

 

[CC 72100]

Looks like ATW have taken onboard some feedback anyway as they have extended the segregated queuing system out into Wood street for tonights game so it shouldn't be as much of a scrum (mind the pun) to get into the right queue!

What would also help of course is the queue marshalls actually checking people's tickets. Part of the disorganisation at Cardiff was down to insufficient checking meaning that people waved anything that was orange, joined the shortest queue at that time but then hung around on the platforms/inside the station for the train they actually wanted to get. As a result they queue-jumped and those that were in the right queue for the right train were confused as to why fewer people were being invited onto the station from that correct queue.

Making sure people are in the right queue in the first place is essential.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Bridge strike between Newport and Cardiff, conveniently just before the Wales-Fiji match.
Plenty of delays and some cancellations.
Hopefully will be fixed before the end of the match.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/today.aspx

Cheshire/North Wales commuters won't be impressed with their trains being stolen to suit Cardiff.

 

[jimm]

Bridge strike between Newport and Cardiff, conveniently just before the Wales-Fiji match.
Plenty of delays and some cancellations.
Hopefully will be fixed before the end of the match.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/today.aspx

Cheshire/North Wales commuters won't be impressed with their trains being stolen to suit Cardiff.

Well the Welsh Secretary demanded that the TOCs should 'fix it' in terms of accommodating rugby supporters. I now await his demand for the reinstatement of these services to accommodate the commuters...

Person hit by a train between Swindon and Bristol Parkway to add to the problems, though looks like it was after the rugby fans had headed west.

Seems like the 'great' British public is at its sympathetic best, as usual...

Steve Brooks ‏@stephenbrooksUK 7m7 minutes ago
Amazed by passenger kicking off, saying delay caused by fatality is unacceptable & inconvenient @GWRhelp manager doing great job handling

 

[CC 72100]

Cheshire/North Wales commuters won't be impressed with their trains being stolen to suit Cardiff.

Ah but we should be moving heaven and earth for the rugby, have you not been paying attention?

 

[infobleep]

I agree with all of that. The TOC's get criticised, but they aren't the parties responsible for high hotel prices, late kick off times or the chronic shortage of rolling stock. I'm not saying that they are perfect in any way, but being told to 'sort it out' when there isn't really any way of doing that without disadvantaging other passengers somewhere along the way isn't really recognising the wider situation.

During the Olympics, someone high speed services into St Pancras from Kent were scraped and replaced with services for the Olympic Park. In that case season ticket holders were compensated and told to use slower trains to Victoria.

Clearly there are less lines in Wales but with advanced planning, would it be possible to put on rail replacement buses and perhaps offer compensation to season ticket holders. Assuming some buses exist on the days in question.

Its only a suggestion from someone outside the rail industry so there may be many reasons why it couldn't be done.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

ATW have made numerous alterations today for Wales v Fiji at Cardiff and appended below:-
Please don't ask me to interpret anything but it would appear there will be additional capacity along the Marches route.

Short notice amendments to Arriva Trains Wales services on Thursday 1 October

Due to a major event at the Millennium Stadium, Cardiff, the following services are amended for Thursday 1 October 2015. We apologise for the inconvenience this will cause you.


Valleys and Cardiff local routes


17.17 Treherbert to Cardiff Central

This service will not call at Llandaff, Cathays, Cardiff Queen Street or Cardiff Central.
Customers should change at Radyr for the 18.07 departure to Barry Island.

18.25 Barry Island to Cardiff Central

This service will terminate at Cogan, not serving Grangetown and Cardiff Central.
Customers should travel on the 19.00 departure from Cogan to Cardiff Central.

18.32 Penarth to Cardiff Central

This service will terminate at Grangetown, not serving Cardiff Central.
Customers should travel on the 18.53 from Grangetown departure to Cardiff Central.

19.04 Radyr to Cardiff Central (City Line)
This service will not run and alternative arrangements are being provided.

20.04 Radyr to Cardiff Central (City Line)
This service will run 30 minutes later at 20.34.

21.20 Penarth to Cardiff Central
This service will depart Penarth later at 21.32.

18.20 Maesteg to Cardiff Central
This service will leave later from Pencoed, Llanharan and Pontyclun, arriving Cardiff Central later.
Customers for Cardiff Central can change at Bridgend for the 19.01 departure to London Paddington.

19.20 Maesteg to Cardiff Central
This service will terminate at Bridgend, not serving Pencoed, Llanharan, Pontyclun and Cardiff Central and alternative arrangements are being provided.
Customers for Cardiff Central can change at Bridgend for the 20.01 departure to London Paddington.

20.15 Maesteg to Cardiff Central
This service will terminate at Bridgend, not serving Pencoed, Llanharan, Pontyclun and Cardiff Central and alternative arrangements are being provided.
Customers for Cardiff Central can change at Bridgend for the 21.01 departure to London Paddington.

21.15 Maesteg to Cardiff Central
This service will leave later from Pencoed, Llanharan and Pontyclun, arriving Cardiff Central at 22.29.



The rest of the Arriva Trains Wales network



09.40 Crewe to Chester This service will not run.
Customers should use the 09.54 service to Holyhead.

14.48 Gloucester to Fishguard Harbour
This service will terminate at Carmarthen with a rail replacement bus at 1805 to Fishguard Harbour

19.08 Fishguard Harbour to Clarbeston Road
20.05 Clarbeston Road to Fishguard Harbour
20.50 Fishguard Harbour to Carmarthen

These services will not run and alternative arrangements are being provided.

15.10 Swansea to Chester This service will terminate at Crewe at 18.43.
Customers should use the 18.58 service to Holyhead.

17.08 Milford Haven to Cardiff Central
This service will terminate Bridgend at 19.40, not serving Cardiff Central.
Customers should use the 20.01 departure from Bridgend to London Paddington.

18.20 Maesteg to Cardiff Central
This service will leave later from Pencoed, Llanharan and Pontyclun, arriving Cardiff Central later.
Customers for Cardiff Central can change at Bridgend for the 19.01 departure to London Paddington.

18.50 Carmarthen to Cardiff Central
This service will run later from Swansea at 20.03, arriving Cardiff Central at 20.58.

19.12 Milford Haven to Cardiff Central
This service terminates at Swansea. Customers should travel on the 21.45 departure from Swansea to Cardiff Central.

19.20 Maesteg to Cardiff Central
This service will terminate at Bridgend, not serving Pencoed, Llanharan, Pontyclun and Cardiff Central and alternative arrangements are being provided.

Customers for Cardiff Central can change at Bridgend for the 20.01 departure to London Paddington.

20.15 Maesteg to Cardiff Central
This service will terminate at Bridgend, not serving Pencoed, Llanharan, Pontyclun and Cardiff Central and alternative arrangements are being provided.

Customers for Cardiff Central can change at Bridgend for the 21.01 departure to London Paddington.

21.15 Maesteg to Cardiff Central
This service will leave later from Pencoed, Llanharan and Pontyclun, arriving Cardiff Central at 22.29.

The following services will not run and alternative arrangements are being provided

◦20.08 Llandudno to Llandudno Junction
◦21.11 Llandudno to Llandudno Junction
◦19.55 Llandudno Junction to Llandudno
◦20.58 Llandudno Junction to Llandudno

14.30 Manchester Piccadilly (17.41 from Cardiff Central) to Milford Haven
This service will be 2 cars instead of 3 cars

17.50 Manchester Piccadilly to Holyhead
This service will be 2 cars instead of 4 cars. Please use the 1650 or 1850 service instead if your ticket allows.

2250 Cardiff Central to Gloucester (additional service) - change at Newport onto 2315 rail replacement bus for intermediate stations Severn Tunnel Junction, Caldicot, Chepstow, Lydney and Gloucester

Looks like what I suggested as being done already.

 

[Mag_seven]

Goodness me that's some headache for the train planning department. I would imagine the end of this Rugby lark can't come soon enough for the TOCs.

Which of course could have been completely unavoidable had the special TT's been put into the system weeks before hand - I mean its not as if the Rugby WC has come as a suprise.

 

[LeylandLen]

Its known that TV is largley responsible for the scheduling of the KO times for the RWC. I have nothing against ITV. However if England fail to make the quarter finals (Wales and Australia going through ) then ITV stand to lose out on a lot of advertising revenue due to not as many watching the RWC. So will the relevant TOCS , although they will benefit should Wales get through and play games at Twickenham .

 

[PHILIPE]

Bridge strike between Newport and Cardiff, conveniently just before the Wales-Fiji match.
Plenty of delays and some cancellations.
Hopefully will be fixed before the end of the match.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/today.aspx

Cheshire/North Wales commuters won't be impressed with their trains being stolen to suit Cardiff.

Soon re-opened so flap over.

 

[6Gman]

Goodness me that's some headache for the train planning department. I would imagine the end of this Rugby lark can't come soon enough for the TOCs.

Nonsense! It's what we were paid for!

I used to enjoy special events.

 

[jimm]

During the Olympics, someone high speed services into St Pancras from Kent were scraped and replaced with services for the Olympic Park. In that case season ticket holders were compensated and told to use slower trains to Victoria.

Clearly there are less lines in Wales but with advanced planning, would it be possible to put on rail replacement buses and perhaps offer compensation to season ticket holders. Assuming some buses exist on the days in question.

Its only a suggestion from someone outside the rail industry so there may be many reasons why it couldn't be done.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Looks like what I suggested as being done already.

The Olympics were in August, when commuter traffic falls off a cliff due to the holidays and probably even more so with people timing holidays to ensure they went nowhere near London during the games - and, as you note, there are other rail routes into London from Kent anyway.

I suspect that most of today's last-gasp changes are actually related to the fact that Cardiff Buses drivers are on strike today and tomorrow, so ATW is busting a gut to help out as a result by getting every last scrap of stock in use around Cardiff because Wales were playing. Tomorrow's ATW alterations are far less extensive, presumably on the basis that it is a late finish, Wales aren't playing and the key flow will most likely be back towards Bristol and London.

Not that that will be any comfort to all those elsewhere who aren't bothered about the rugby, or however many years in advance it was known about, whose journeys are being disrupted as a result. I'll bet it was fun on the 17.50 Manchester to Holyhead with two cars instead of four.

 

[infobleep]

The Olympics were in August, when commuter traffic falls off a cliff due to the holidays and probably even more so with people timing holidays to ensure they went nowhere near London during the games - and, as you note, there are other rail routes into London from Kent anyway.

I suspect that most of today's last-gasp changes are actually related to the fact that Cardiff Buses drivers are on strike today and tomorrow, so ATW is busting a gut to help out as a result by getting every last scrap of stock in use around Cardiff because Wales were playing. Tomorrow's ATW alterations are far less extensive, presumably on the basis that it is a late finish, Wales aren't playing and the key flow will most likely be back towards Bristol and London.

Not that that will be any comfort to all those elsewhere who aren't bothered about the rugby, or however many years in advance it was known about, whose journeys are being disrupted as a result. I'll bet it was fun on the 17.50 Manchester to Holyhead with two cars instead of four.

Perhaps the Rugby World Cup should have happened in the summer, like the Olympics.

 

[father_jack]

Well the Welsh Secretary demanded that the TOCs should 'fix it' in terms of accommodating rugby supporters. I now await his demand for the reinstatement of these services to accommodate the commuters...

Person hit by a train between Swindon and Bristol Parkway to add to the problems, though looks like it was after the rugby fans had headed west.

Seems like the 'great' British public is at its sympathetic best, as usual...

If you were silly enough to travel on 1B42 arriving in CDF at 1622 potentially for 1645 start you deserved all you got
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P00263/2015/10/01/advanced

 

[GatwickDepress]

I have noticed a fault with the World Cup Travel info: Milton Keynes Station is NOT The closest station to the Estadio Della Franchise. Fenny Stratford is

That explains the signs at Fenny Stratford with Rugby League branding on, pointing the way to and from the stadium.

MK is decked out in bunting and those fabricy signy...things, while poor Bletchley is barer than a dancer post-Dance of the Seven Veils!

 

[fgwrich]

Off to Cardiff for tomorrow match, could somebody post (if it has already, apologies it's become a long thread!) post the times of the extras & LHCS specials running to Wales tomorrow please?

 

[w1bbl3]

Soon re-opened so flap over.

Not really the residual delays carried over for most of the afternoon on PAD bound services and delayed departures out of PAD until the fatality resulted in the post match CDF services running somewhat late. Throw in signalling issues outside CDF and services where running 30+ minutes late after the game which has persisted until end of service.

The shuttle road coach service laid on between CDF and BPW and missing out NWP stops on CDF > PAD/BRI services has probably saved GWR from another day of negative press around queue times.

Off to Cardiff for tomorrow match, could somebody post (if it has already, apologies it's become a long thread!) post the times of the extras & LHCS specials running to Wales tomorrow please?

Lots and lots...
TOC Destination Plan Dep
GW Bristol Temple Meads 2204
GW Bristol Temple Meads 2220
GW Bristol Temple Meads 2236
GW Bristol Temple Meads 2253
GW Bristol Temple Meads 2312
GW Bristol Temple Meads 2330
GW Bristol Temple Meads 2344
GW Bristol Temple Meads 2356
GW Bristol Temple Meads 0025
GW Bristol Temple Meads 0050
GW London Paddington 2325
ZZ London Paddington 2348
ZZ London Paddington 0013
GW London Paddington 0043

 

[bb21]

Interesting. Well done to FGW and whoever running these ZZ services, and Network Rail I suppose. Credit where it is due.

 

[fgwrich]

Thanks w1bbl3. Are any of those the loco hauled jobs? I Wouldn't mind catching one of those into Wales tomorrow if there any still running.

As much as I will criticise FGW at times, their handling of some of the Rugby Matches across the network have been subtly surprisingly effective - Like extra buses from Exeter to Digby for the matches being player there! (And more effective than this useless lagging Windows 10 update 'm trying to type this post on!)

 

[EbbwJunction1]

There's a full page notice from GWR in today's Western Mail explaining what they're doing to help people travel to matches and giving advice on what passengers should also do.

It all looks sensible, as did the message I received at the beginning of the week (see my previous post, No. 324), but I would again ask "Why wasn't this done before?"

 

[jimm]

There's a full page notice from GWR in today's Western Mail explaining what they're doing to help people travel to matches and giving advice on what passengers should also do.

It all looks sensible, as did the message I received at the beginning of the week (see my previous post, No. 324), but I would again ask "Why wasn't this done before?"

All that the newspaper adverts (others were printed in London-based papers yesterday and the papers reach far fewer people than they would have done even a few years ago due to falling circulations) and the emails - not much use if you aren't on FGW's mailing list - are doing is restating information that was already available beforehand on the TOC websites, the RWC websites, stadium websites, etc. The train plans appear to be pretty much those that were always going to be used anyway, though altered by ATW yesterday in the light of the bus strike.

Many of those travelling are likely to be only occasional rail users, who don't seem to have looked at any of the advice and expect to be able to turn up on the day and be whisked to their destination by an unlimited supply of uncrowded trains running every five minutes without needing to queue and go running to Twitter 10 seconds after being told they have to queue - never mind the Cardiff queuing system has been in use for 16 years since the stadium opened and queuing at Paddington isn't new on such occasions either.

Last night seems to have passed off more smoothly, with the coaches to Bristol appearing to have taken the sting out of things in that direction. Tweets from ATW and GWR say they shifted 20,000 and 14,000 passengers respectively, but no figure from XC - so getting on for half the 71,000 crowd - though not clear if the GWR figure includes the coaches.

 

[PHILIPE]

Off to Cardiff for tomorrow match, could somebody post (if it has already, apologies it's become a long thread!) post the times of the extras & LHCS specials running to Wales tomorrow please?

These should be LHCS today. Anything else would be HSTs including Bristol TM

FRIDAY 02ND OCTOBER 2015
DBS SET 1
1Z30 1033 PAD-CDF 1336 (RDG 1118, SWI 1203, BPW 1239)
*stables Margam*
1Z39 2348 CDF-PAD 0245 (SWI 0121, RDG 0204)

DBS SET 2
1Z32 1233 PAD-CDF 1537 (RDG 1318, SWI 1402, BPW 1446)
*stables Margam*
1Z40 TBC

DRS SET
1Z33 1433 PAD-CDF 1741 (RDG 1518, SWI 1619, BPW 1701)
*stables Pengam*
1Z38 2334 CDF-PAD 0241 (SWI 0117, RDG 0159)

 

[didcotdean]

My favourite Twitter complaint from yesterday referred to GWR using trains that had come from the 1870s. Was it the appearance of LHCS or just a typo? We'll never know.

 

[jimm]

My favourite Twitter complaint from yesterday referred to GWR using trains that had come from the 1870s. Was it the appearance of LHCS or just a typo? We'll never know.

Though perhaps not as ridiculous as this recent effort...

Guy Lambert ‏@SohoGuy 2m2 minutes ago
Newcastle to Manchester, major route, First Great Western run a service with 4 carriages! Ridiculous

 

[D1009]

Lots and lots...
TOC Destination Plan Dep
GW Bristol Temple Meads 2204
GW Bristol Temple Meads 2220
GW Bristol Temple Meads 2236
GW Bristol Temple Meads 2253
GW Bristol Temple Meads 2312
GW Bristol Temple Meads 2330
GW Bristol Temple Meads 2344
GW Bristol Temple Meads 2356
GW Bristol Temple Meads 0025
GW Bristol Temple Meads 0050
GW London Paddington 2325
ZZ London Paddington 2348
ZZ London Paddington 0013
GW London Paddington 0043

RTT is currently showing trains to Paddington at 2200, 2229, 2243, 2300, 2325, 2334, 2341, 2348 (LHCS), 2355, 0013 (LHCS), 0020 and 0043. This appears to suggest they expect the rush to start as the match is finishing. Some of these could be on an "as required" basis, but this seems to answer some of the comments up the thread that GWR can't/won't/shouldn't do anything, and rugby fans should be left to their own devices to get home.

By contrast, as things stand tomorrow night the railway west of Didcot is effectively closing after the 2330 Paddington Bristol.