Trains and the Rugby World Cup

[Cletus]

There's a game at the Olympic Park kicking off at 4.45pm and there's been problems most of the day on Southeastern's high speed line due to overhead problems.

We're currently running a reduced high speed service from London St Pancras because of a damaged overhead power cable at Stratford. Delays on all high speed services are expected to continue until this evening.

Disruption to Highspeed services – Wednesday 7 October 2015
Overhead wire problems at Stratford International means that we are only
able to run a reduced service on our routes to and from London St Pancras
International for the rest of the day.
From 16:00, the following service plan will apply:
From London:
 St Pancras to Ashford International: 2 trains per hour at 09 & 45 minutes past the
hour.
 St Pancras to Faversham: 1 train per hour at 57 minutes past each hour
 St Pancras to Maidstone West trains will not run
There will be no high speed services beyond Ashford or Faversham, you’ll need to change trains to
complete your journey.
Between Dover and Ramsgate, we’ll run additional buses to cover any gaps in the train service
All trains will stop at Stratford International and Ebbsfleet International
No other High Speed services will run from St Pancras
Towards London:
 Ashford International to St Pancras: 2 trains per hour Faversham to St Pancras: 1
train per hour
Given the nature of the problem at Stratford we can’t currently give precise departure times
for London bound services. Please reconfirm your journey details at nationalrail.co.uk
before travelling
All trains will stop at Ebsfleet International & Stratford International
Travelling to the Rugby World Cup?
Given the limited highspeed services this evening, we strongly recommend that you
consider alternative routes to and from Stratford. You can use your ticket at no extra cost on
the following alternatives:
- London Liverpool Street to Stratford: Abellio Greater Anglia & TfL Rail
- London Underground & Docklands Light Railway services to Stratford

 

[richw]

Chiltern trev, am I rugby fan, but don't get to many professional or international games due to the fact I play myself.

Since it took me a few years back 6 hours to get from Cardiff to the M5 southbound, I've made a weekend of it in Cardiff. I have a number of contacts living in Cardiff so inevitably find a sofa to borrow for the weekend.

For Twickenham on my last few visits it's taken approx 1 hr to get from twickenham to the M3. I normally park in the on site car park on the adjacent school field,

 

[StarCrossing]

Interested to know how many posters on this thread are rugby fans as in go to occasional matches or have season tickets?

I go to almost all Bath home games and two or three Wales home games a year as well as the odd game elsewhere. I live in Bristol.

I usually find the trains are fine, including for Wales home games in Cardiff. However, I'm perfectly willing to queue for a while and stand on the train, whereas some others aren't. The world cup has been very different to anything else though, as so many more people seem to be travelling by train, particularly from London. They (GWR, etc) seemed to be taken by surprise at Cardiff on the first weekend but have responded very well since, although I still had issues getting there last week. One of the problems with the weekday games is that fans do a day or a half day at work and so travel a bit closer to kick-off than they would do on a Saturday.

As a Bath fan, I've only been to Twickenham once , and the system felt quite dangerous, with big crowds on platforms waiting for their train whilst others were trying to push through to the train already sitting at the platform. Even at it's worst on the first weekend of the world cup, the Cardiff system felt much safer.

Ireland vs France this Sunday will be interesting, as I expect a huge number of fans will be travelling to Cardiff from Bristol and London. I'm not going to that game, but I will be passing through Bristol stations a few hours before kick-off, so I'll be interested to see what the crowds are like.

 

[PHILIPE]

Re my earlier Post, #419, which indicated DRS pulled out of last three Ruggex, have heard nothing further to substantiate this. However, Sunday 18Oct, 1Z21 09 06 Paddington to Cardiff (Returns 1Z31) is now as timed for HST rather than DRS LHCS.

 

[87015]

Re my earlier Post, #419, which indicated DRS pulled out of last three Ruggex, have heard nothing further to substantiate this. However, Sunday 18Oct, 1Z21 09 06 Paddington to Cardiff (Returns 1Z31) is now as timed for HST rather than DRS LHCS.

The schedule hasn't been changed since July however so this timing load isn't reflecting anything new.
It looks like they are using various timing loads with changes en-route which RTT declines to show; eg 1Z06 is timed as a Sprinter beyond Swindon...

 

[berneyarms]

One would hope that there certainly are still extra trains on Sunday - this will be the biggest test the railway in Cardiff has had yet as virtually the entire crowd will be heading east or north afterwards, and Ireland will have a massive following.

I assume also that the extra buses will be put into use as well.

 

[Hornet]

Interested to know how many posters on this thread are rugby fans as in go to occasional matches or have season tickets?

Used to be a regular at Saracens in the late 90's, even though Wasps would have been the nearest club to me, (Burnham), and was my mates local team. Since moving to Dublin in 2002 I've followed Leinster and have had a season ticket since 2003. I've missed about 3 home games in that time. Have been to all the away Pro12 venues plus most of the away European Cup games that Leinster have played in. Been to all the European Cup finals since 2006 (except 2010). Visited all the Six Nations venues, bar Stade de France and all the Premiership Grounds bar Sale and Newcastle. Never had problems getting to and from any of the Grounds. I find if you plan well in advance, you minimise the grief on the day.

 

[Hadders]

I'm a Northampton Saints season ticket holder and have been to every match at Franklin's Gardens for the last nine years.

I've only missed one match, home or away, in all competitions since December 2008 (away to Clermont Auvergne in the Champions Cup on account of a family party).

 

[island]

One would hope that there certainly are still extra trains on Sunday - this will be the biggest test the railway in Cardiff has had yet as virtually the entire crowd will be heading east or north afterwards, and Ireland will have a massive following.

I assume also that the extra buses will be put into use as well.

Indications are that eastbound GWR HST services after the match will be pick up only at Newport S. Wales and Bristol Parkway. Passengers for Newport S. Wales will get ATW shuttles from platform 0, whilst those requiring Bristol Parkway will be routed onto replacement coach services.

As the match will finish sometime in the order of 18:40, it will also be more difficult than the last Irish match which finished 16:30 as folks will be less inclined to stay back for a pint or two.

 

[PHILIPE]

Indications are that eastbound GWR HST services after the match will be pick up only at Newport S. Wales and Bristol Parkway. Passengers for Newport S. Wales will get ATW shuttles from platform 0, whilst those requiring Bristol Parkway will be routed onto replacement coach services.

As the match will finish sometime in the order of 18:40, it will also be more difficult than the last Irish match which finished 16:30 as folks will be less inclined to stay back for a pint or two.

Journey Planner indicates these are the regular Swansea to London Paddington services. The example I looked at on Journey Planner sends people to Newport on a Nottingham XC service rather than the ATW Shuttle. But, after all, the Computer doesn't understand.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



Started off today for Ireland v France at Cardiff with severe overcrowding on FGW routes with seemingly thousands at Bristol trying to get to Cardiff. 12 03Paddington to Bath (via Bristol parkway due Engineering Work) diverted to Cardiff. Delays of approx. 40 mins due to build up behind a train with brake problems just before entering Severn Tunnel. 1Z12 11 47 Additional Bristol TM to Cardiff was the culprit formed 8 Car DMU - 150219 + 158953 + 150925.
Noted that 1V50 LHCS from Crewe to Cardiff is running outward via and calling at Chester and Wrexham but return tonight runs direct from Shrewsbury to Crewe.

 

[Chester025]

Noted that 1V50 LHCS from Crewe to Cardiff is running outward via and calling at Chester and Wrexham but return tonight runs direct from Shrewsbury to Crewe.

This is formed of 150x2.

 

[PHILIPE]

This is formed of 150x2.

As timed for Loco was expecting Manchester to Holyhead Set. I wonder if that is what was actually diagrammed and substituted for some reason. Holyhead LHCS is 67001.

 

[island]

The queue at PAD was something to behold. Most of Plat. 8 was sectioned off but this was far from sufficient; by 1000 it was backed up to the top of the ramp to Praed Street, all the way back down said ramp, circling around the cafés and back to the departures board, and back around to WHSmith before going back up the ramp.

 

[Hellfire]

Is it unrealistic to expect any transport system to cope with these sorts of events? I was in Manchester last night for the England Uruguay Game along with around 50,000 other people. Across the city more than 70,000 were at Old Trafford for the Rugby League Challenge Final.

Leaving aside the ludicrous decision to hold both on the same day, there cannot be any expectation that public transport will cope. Kudos to Stagecoach for having a fleet of buses outside Man City with very efficient marshalling. We were back in the city centre within 45 minutes of the final whistle. I drove in from Darwen as there was no expectation at all that we'd be able to get onto a train from Victoria which, I'm told, was rammed.

 

[Michael.Y]

Don't forget we live in the world of entitlement. People think there should be millions of trains available but are unwilling to pay for them.

 

[berneyarms]

The queue at PAD was something to behold. Most of Plat. 8 was sectioned off but this was far from sufficient; by 1000 it was backed up to the top of the ramp to Praed Street, all the way back down said ramp, circling around the cafés and back to the departures board, and back around to WHSmith before going back up the ramp.

This really should not be a surprise - I've been predicting all along that this will be the biggest test for the railway to and from Cardiff.

 

[Groningen]

Yesterday there was a game in Manchester. Between Milton Keynes and London there were busses which took 3 hours to reach London.

 

[craigybagel]

Noted that 1V50 LHCS from Crewe to Cardiff is running outward via and calling at Chester and Wrexham but return tonight runs direct from Shrewsbury to Crewe.

This is formed of 150x2.

As timed for Loco was expecting Manchester to Holyhead Set. I wonder if that is what was actually diagrammed and substituted for some reason. Holyhead LHCS is 67001.

1V50 was a single 150 between Chester and Shrewsbury, 2 south of there. One unit returned north strengthening 1W26 (1513 Milford Haven-Manchester) from Cardiff, and the other strengthened 1W96 (2145 Cardiff-Hereford, extended to Crewe). Given they split them for their journey back north, which you obviously can't do with the loco set, perhaps the plan was to use them on that service all along?

1V51 was the 09:25 Holyhead-Cardiff which ran with the Holyhead MKIII set and 67001. Returned north at 19:26 as 1W94

 

[Starmill]

Were these events the reason East Midlands Trains ran a 2300 Manchester > Nottingham train with 6 coaches last Saturday night?

I noted it was less than 15 minutes behind an HST-operated Liverpool - Nottingham that was also an additional service. 3 Nottingham trains from Manchester in half an hour!

I note that the 2300 called at Alfreton at 0022, well over an hour later than there is normally a train to Alfreton (I've always thought it deficient that the 2338 Sheffield to Nottingham doesn't stop at Alfreton given it's usually booked to pass there?).

 

[northwichcat]

Is it unrealistic to expect any transport system to cope with these sorts of events? I was in Manchester last night for the England Uruguay Game along with around 50,000 other people. Across the city more than 70,000 were at Old Trafford for the Rugby League Challenge Final.

Leaving aside the ludicrous decision to hold both on the same day, there cannot be any expectation that public transport will cope. Kudos to Stagecoach for having a fleet of buses outside Man City with very efficient marshalling. We were back in the city centre within 45 minutes of the final whistle. I drove in from Darwen as there was no expectation at all that we'd be able to get onto a train from Victoria which, I'm told, was rammed.

Silly thing is the Premier League ensure Manchester United play away if Manchester City are at home and vice versa, the same with Liverpool/Everton. Yet with two different bodies organising two different events they both happened in the same city* on the same day. The Rugby League Challenge Final is pretty much always played the second Saturday in October at Old Trafford, so I don't know why the Rugby Union organisers didn't take note of that.

* OK technically Trafford is not city of Manchester.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

yet another attempt by the bitter rfu to undermine league sadly it failed miserably what with the union game being unimportant and the Grand final being a classic

 

[DarloRich]

Silly thing is the Premier League ensure Manchester United play away if Manchester City are at home and vice versa, the same with Liverpool/Everton. Yet with two different bodies organising two different events they both happened in the same city* on the same day. The Rugby League Challenge Final is pretty much always played the second Saturday in October at Old Trafford, so I don't know why the Rugby Union organisers didn't take note of that.

* OK technically Trafford is not city of Manchester.

it wasn't the Challenge Cup Final - that is played at Wembley

Yesterday there was a game in Manchester. Between Milton Keynes and London there were busses which took 3 hours to reach London.

No there wasn't. There was even a 23XX back to Euston from Manchester

 

[northwichcat]

it wasn't the Challenge Cup Final - that is played at Wembley

I don't follow Rugby League, I was using the terminology which other posters had already used in the thread.

 

[DarloRich]

I don't follow Rugby League, I was using the terminology which other posters had already used in the thread.

well they are wrong. It was the Grand Final

Leeds won them all any

 

[Hellfire]

yet another attempt by the bitter rfu to undermine league sadly it failed miserably what with the union game being unimportant and the Grand final being a classic

That's why league is hardly played outside the four northern counties then

 

[northwichcat]

well they are wrong. It was the Grand Final

Leeds won them all any

In future I'll call it Big Rugby League Match played second weekend in October.

That's why league is hardly played outside the four northern counties then

Apparently globally there are 2.36 million rugby union players and also 2.36 million rugby league players. There's more registered rugby league clubs than union but league has less players per team so that makes sense.

 

[6Gman]

Apparently globally there are 2.36 million rugby union players and also 2.36 million rugby league players. There's more registered rugby league clubs than union but league has less players per team so that makes sense.

At the risk of veering seriously off-topic ....

An odd coincidence that the figures are identical?

According to The Times (Sept 17th) there are 1.1m rugby union players in NZ, SA & Australia alone; and 2.47m in the British Isles. Add in France, Argentina, Japan, US, Canada ...

p.s. I admire both Union and League. They are both good games. Is that allowed?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

At the risk of veering seriously off-topic ....
An odd coincidence that the figures are identical?
According to The Times (Sept 17th) there are 1.1m rugby union players in NZ, SA & Australia alone; and 2.47m in the British Isles. Add in France, Argentina, Japan, US, Canada ...
p.s. I admire both Union and League. They are both good games. Is that allowed?

Despite having probably the best Rugby Union team in the World Cup, Rugby League is much bigger than Union in Australia.

 

[6Gman]

Despite having probably the best Rugby Union team in the World Cup, Rugby League is much bigger than Union in Australia.

But other than Australia and Papua New Guinea I can't think of any other countries where RL is bigger than RU.

Which, again, makes the suggestion that they each have 2.36m participants unlikely.

 

[northwichcat]

But other than Australia and Papua New Guinea I can't think of any other countries where RL is bigger than RU.

Which, again, makes the suggestion that they each have 2.36m participants unlikely.

Those were the 2014 figures from the IRB but there is a disclaimer that not all countries record figures in the same way.

Anyway a major RL match in the North of England will put strain on public transport services.