Train vs Plane

[Techniquest]

Now this is quite fascinating. I used to love flying, I first flew on my own in 2012 and racked up quite a few Ryanair flights back in the day. Fast forward to 2026 and I barely fly anywhere. Indeed, in the last 2 years I believe it’s been just 4 flights I’ve been on. One with easyJet from Liverpool to Belfast, one with Aer Lingus Regional/Emerald Airlines/whatever they’re calling themselves this week from Dublin to Manchester (awful flight, did not enjoy that ATR thing at all) and in December 2025 I had a round trip from Heathrow to Nice and back.

So infrequent is my flying I’ve not kept my Flightdiary up to date!

Does this mean I won’t fly? No chance, I love to fly but it’s got to be sensible. Things like Birmingham to Glasgow I won’t do, likewise something like London to Paris I absolutely wouldn’t fly. If there’s a realistic rail journey available, by which I mean affordable and/or allowing time at the destination within the restricted time I have available, then the train is my choice.

Yes, it’s more expensive and so on to go to Nice by rail from Hereford. Yes it takes ages. On my last trip, it was pretty short notice and I had a great deal made even better by Avios discount, so I flew with BA to Nice and back. Big up So’Co Hotel in Nice by the way, really nice place and super convenient for the railway station, the Line 1 trams and the city centre in general. At the time of booking, Eurostar wanted something like £362 I think just for the trains, although I’ll add this was with just a few weeks’ notice.

That was not justifiable, especially with just a couple of days in Nice as it was with the flights. I’ve done Nice to London via Paris in one day before, in December 2024, so I know it’s a long day although, to be fair, with a lunchtime departure from Nice that’s not too bad. By the time one arrives in London, however, one is absolutely ready for bed! It is, with connection time in Paris, something like a 10.5 hour journey from memory with the time zone change, so that’s understandable.

Would I do that journey again? I think if I had more freedom to choose my seat on the TGV - sadly not presently an option if booking the through fare with Eurostar - then I absolutely would. However I add that I would be allocating an entire day of holiday time just to the London to Nice and vice versa parts of the trip, as I’d also add at least half a day in London at both ends of the trip too. Not necessary, granted, that is my choice as I’d do some train stuff in the city while there.

I do have a trip in the pipeline which is a combination of flying and rail. That one is London-Paris-Barcelona, spend a couple of days in the Spanish city, fly back to the UK. Or, indeed, vice versa. Better yet would be tagging on a couple of days in Lisbon, although a dedicated trip to Portugal makes a lot of sense. That one would 100% be flying there and back, to do that by land would be incredibly tough.

So for me, I like the combination of methods. Taking off on a flight, especially if it involves something big like a 777, is brilliant fun. I do confess I enjoy watching planes taking off more than flying in general, my tolerance and patience levels are super low compared to my heyday of flying Ryanair. My trip to Nice in December did put me off Heathrow, previously one of my favourite airports, although compared to the likes of Liverpool and Manchester Airports I would certainly choose Heathrow still. Probably helped by the awesome Heathrow Express, my absolutely top choice for arriving at or indeed departing Heathrow. Every other method feels ‘well if I must’ whereas the Heathrow Express always brings a joy of the holiday with it. If that makes sense!

 

[Tetragon213]

Yes, but there aren't many of them per flight. Hopefully the same number of each.

I was just glad to be finally in the air after an hour delay rectifying a fault.

Still sounds like a less stressful experience than the average ClownCountry journey.

Until I began relying on ClownCountry for business travel, I thought I loved all trains. Since I started my day job, I've never found a mode of transport more contemptible than a 220/221 Vomiter dressed in the drab grey of ClownCountry, as it usually ends with me having my face crammed into a vestibule panel with my feet screaming in pain after being stood bolt upright like a nutcracker for 2 hours.

 

[Northern150]

I'll take getting the train over flying domestically in the UK most of the time.. But if the journey includes several hours on Crosscountry then I am flying

 

[styles]

At least in my company, there is a blanket unwritten rule of "no flights if a line manager can conjure up a rail itinerary" because of "green travel".

I've been on the Eurostar once for the experience, and while it was nice, I won't be doing it again as it was just so unbelievably expensive just to get to Brussels and back.

I used to have the opposite in one job - we had to take whatever was cheapest unless it resulted in a ridiculous itinerary. They did however de facto exclude coaches because they rarely represented business value for money when work time etc was factored in.

As a result, flying to France/Belgium/The Netherlands was the default. I had a bit of a faff trying to get Eurostar paid for because it was marginally more expensive.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jan 2026 ==

But in terms of a journey from the UK to France, I just can't make the numbers work with Eurostar. It's not really any more convenient than flying - I live ~150 miles from London, so that's already another train journey and a walk or tube transfer and unless I just happen to be staying in the immediate vicinity of Gare du Nord or Lille Europe, it involves further walking and metro and/or rail and/or bus transfers depending on where exactly I'm going.

It somewhat depends where in France. But from London there's the cost of getting to an airport, then in Paris the cost of getting from CDG to the city. End to end I'm not sure it's much quicker, and a big factor in my previous work has been luggage. I was taking posters etc to conferences and these are fine on Eurostar, but chargeable hold luggage on flights. Ryanair and EasyJet seem great on paper until your fare doubles for taking a single poster tube each way.

 

[johntea]

I was most impressed with KLM when I flew from Leeds - Amsterdam a few years back, it was roughly £60 each way and to my surprise even though it was only an hour or so economy flight they were round with complimentary snacks and even a beer!

 

[Harpo]

The biggest single advantage of flying is knowing you’ll be seated, albeit not in comfort. But I flatly refuse any flying beyond my discomfort tolerance of 4 hours.

Budget airlines want you at the gate 45 minutes or so before departure so they can minimise time on tarmac.

I book aisle seats so hang back to board last and stay seated at the gate, marvelling at the half hour of extra standing time beyond the gate that ‘priority boarding’ buys for the gullible.

On alternatives to flying, if I’m cruising (yes I am that old) I’ll take the extra sea days from a UK port over a fly-cruise option with experiences such as three hours standing in Malta airport’s miniature UK departures area followed by an uncomfortable charter flight.

 

[styles]

The biggest single advantage of flying is knowing you’ll be seated, albeit not in comfort. But I flatly refuse any flying beyond my discomfort tolerance of 4 hours.

I book aisle seats so hang back to board last and stay seated at the gate, marvelling at the half hour of extra standing time beyond the gate that ‘priority boarding’ buys for the gullible.

On alternatives to flying, if I’m cruising (yes I am that old) I’ll take the extra sea days from a UK port over a fly-cruise option with experiences such as three hours standing in Malta airport’s miniature UK departures area followed by an uncomfortable charter flight.

Yes I do myself cut it fine with boarding times, but there are airlines who routinely close the gates half an hour before departure and will turn people away, so it's a bit of a gamble.

I'm sure at LCY I've been taxi -> departure gate in < 5 minutes.

Not really a thing with a train. In fact even going international, the Eurostar staff will jump people to the front of the security and border queue if their train is leaving soon. The same is not often said of Ryanair.

 

[Harpo]

I'm sure at LCY I've been taxi -> departure gate in < 5 minutes.

Only one experience there, an arrival a long time ago but hugely memorable for leaving on the DLR less than 10 minutes after coming to a stand.

 

[TUC]

I do think this kind of debate is a South East issue. For the rest of the country, the additional travel to London for Eurostar makes it impractical on both time and cost grounds.

 

[S101]

Flying is fun. Train is well….a vehicle on rails.

Yes, so much fun. A crappy, rattly bus from the long stay car park to the terminal (because who in their right mind would trust Transpennine TOC/ROUTE to get them to Manchester in time), 2 to 3 hours before the flight. The super fun experience of getting through security where every airport in the world has a different idea, about what you can and can't do. Getting called to the gate an hour before the flight, even though the flight is still over Paris, or whatever. Then the super fun experience of the on board part. Zero leg room, a seat where it is physically impossible for your head to touch the head rest, some overweight person spilling into your seat. A hundred gormless people, that simply cannot just put their bag above, and sit down. Up, down, up, down. The predicable rush to the toilet the min the wheels go up. The constant kicking of your seat from the back, from the brat that everyone is supposed to think is cute, or just an adult that cannot conduct themselves in public. Then, the plane lands. All those same gormless people, immediately stand up, despite there been nowhere to go for at least 15 mins. Then to join the queue at passport control, where nearly every airport has a queue for their own citizens, apart from in the UK, where we invite the rest of the world to queue with us.....

Yes, flying really is fun!

Oh, and don't forget the 45min wait for your bags, to make the 200 yard trip from the plane, to the carrousel!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jan 2026 ==


Don't get me wrong, I'm not rails biggest fan, but compared to flying, I love it. Plus, with rail, I don't have to pay more for my bag than for my person. Or umpteen quid to secure a still substandard seat.

I'll take getting the train over flying domestically in the UK most of the time.. But if the journey includes several hours on Crosscountry then I am flying

I agree. Cross Country's problem, is its ridiculous trains.

 

[alex397]

With the mention of London City Airport, using flights from there is one of the few occasions I can tolerate and maybe even enjoy flying.
As others have mentioned, the time taken between landing and being on a DLR train is impressive. It’s also the easiest (and in some cases cheapest) airport to reach from Kent by public transport. High speed to Stratford International, then a direct DLR train to the airport taking 20 mins. Almost as good as getting a train straight to St Pancras and walking to the Eurostar terminal.

My one complaint is that waiting to board can be stressful, with not enough room for all the passengers, at the eastern-most gates. Those gates really feel like a cheap afterthought when compared to the gates closer to the departure lounge. Often feels no different to waiting at a large airport for a cheap airline.

The planes at LCY are obviously smaller, and more fun to be on. Usually 2+2 seating, and it feels less claustrophobic on board even though the plane is smaller. Some great airlines too - I was really impressed with using ITA to Milan - really comfy seats, and free snacks and drink. They fly to Milan Linate which is very close to the city centre. Thoroughly would recommend them!

Of course you’re less likely to find a cheap flight from LCY, but it’s far from impossible. All flights I’ve taken from there have been cheaper than the alternative of Ryanair/Easyjet/Wizz at the time of booking. I was surprised at how cheap I got an ITA flight, about 3 weeks before departure.

 

[Halwynd]

I don't really like the whole flying experience and have always preferred the train for domestic travel, but this year I have to travel from the north west to Cornwall and I'm sad to say there's no way I would consider the train, which would be mainly by Cross Country.

The last time I made the journey I went via London and had a really nice trip from Paddington to Penzance by First Great Western HST (with Travelling Chef) but I don't fancy that by GWR ironing board without buffet, so I've booked with Easy Jet from Manchester to Newquay.

Newquay isn't as convenient for me as Penzance is by train, but the cost was a fraction of what I'd be fleeced for by Cross Country - and the journey time isn't much more than an hour, so I don't really need worry about seat comfort, or getting to the toilet on a wedged Cross Country train. It's over 20 years since I've flown domestically and I've never used a 'budget' airline before so don't know what to expect, but rail is now so unattractive for this journey I'm going to give flying a try.

 

[Dave W]

Am I not right in thinking that the service of passenger travel is zero rated, rather than exempt, and therefore airlines can reclaim VAT on all their inputs regardless?

No idea how that interacts with travel outside the EU largely because I've forgotten... Been a long time since I was at HMRC! But I suspect it'll create some sort of partial exemption position.

 

[S101]

I don't really like the whole flying experience and have always preferred the train for domestic travel, but this year I have to travel from the north west to Cornwall and I'm sad to say there's no way I would consider the train, which would be mainly by Cross Country.

The last time I made the journey I went via London and had a really nice trip from Paddington to Penzance by First Great Western HST (with Travelling Chef) but I don't fancy that by GWR ironing board without buffet, so I've booked with Easy Jet from Manchester to Newquay.

Newquay isn't as convenient for me as Penzance is by train, but the cost was a fraction of what I'd be fleeced for by Cross Country - and the journey time isn't much more than an hour, so I don't really need worry about seat comfort, or getting to the toilet on a wedged Cross Country train. It's over 20 years since I've flown domestically and I've never used a 'budget' airline before so don't know what to expect, but rail is now so unattractive for this journey I'm going to give flying a try.

Same, last time we did that trip, we went into London on the MML, then back out of Paddington, just to avoid a Voyager!

 

[nineteenninety]

I did a trip from Milan to Manchester via rail only back in June last year. Starting off with the 06:00 TGV From Milan Garibaldi to Paris Gare DL, for a total of €37. A very enjoyable journey with nice views in the alps, I decided to have a few hours photting the TGVs in Paris before boarding the 1900 to London which cost €80 and finally jumping on the Avanti to Manchester for €20 So a total of €137 (£120) for Milan to Manchester entirely by train, booked a few weeks in advance as well.

 

[renegademaster]

Honestly London-Glasgow was quite easy to me. Gatwick is quite an efficient airport if you only have carry ons, and flying domestic and walking straight out the airport is very nice.

Less stressful than playing the Avanti lottery

 

[styles]

I do think this kind of debate is a South East issue. For the rest of the country, the additional travel to London for Eurostar makes it impractical on both time and cost grounds.

I don't live in the southeast. I still choose Eurostar.

I also have a family member who is a wheelchair user and she is way more comfortable on trains than on planes. Eurostar also do an excellent rate on Eurostar Plus/Premier for wheelchair users and their companions.

 

[TUC]

I do suspect that many who prefer train to travel to Europe, for anyone other than Londoners wanting to get to Paris, either have more spare time than most people or consciously treat the rail journey as part of their holiday. Nothing wrong with the latter, but for most people the aim is to get where they are needing to go as quickly and cheaply as possible.

 

[BazingaTribe]

We are all different of course, but I strongly dislike most parts of flying. The only joy is the taking off and landing part, and perhaps looking out trying to identify cities and geographic landmarks, if lucky enough to have a window seat and no cloud.
The excessive amount of waiting around, inability to get up and have a walk, and slight feeling of claustrophia, is hugely off putting. So much so that I’m putting off planning a Balkans trip , knowing that I’ll have to probably fly.

I hate flying (particularly taking off and sometimes landing) but like having flown. Realistically, I'm not able to get to Uzbekistan in the autumn solely over land. Even if I wanted to take a month off work, the route would go through places I as a British person am not allowed to set foot in (Iran).

However, flying over Europe on a crystal clear day in May last year was worth it. Got a really good picture of Lake Constance, saw the Eiffel Tower during the descent into CDG, and almost lost my lunch as we banked hard over the White Cliffs. At the opposite end of the year -- 1999 or 2000, IIRC -- I flew over the Alps and could see the lights of houses and traffic strung across the mountains like jewellery. I can see why people take sightseeing flights, but equally for my long-postponed trip to see UK-based relatives, I'm considering the train and ferry, because the proportion of take off and landing on a short hop is greater than on a long haul cross-continental flight.

Thank you mods for the new thread, though.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jan 2026 ==

I do suspect that many who prefer train to travel to Europe, for anyone other than Londoners wanting to get to Paris, either have more spare time than most people or consciously treat the rail journey as part of their holiday. Nothing wrong with the latter, but for most people the aim is to get where they are needing to go as quickly and cheaply as possible.

When they open the route to Cologne, it will make things a lot more accessible for a week's travel. My German trip in December was booked for a week and the railway part of that took an afternoon. I had to change, but if they do establish a Cologne terminal for cross-channel services, it's not a huge distance for a quick trip to the Christmas markets.

 

[TUC]

I just checked the price of a Manchester-Paris flight for same day travel today. The cheapest is £116, including a checked 23kg bag. The cheapest Eurostar journey, even before Manchester-London rail travel is added, is £228. It's hard to see how that is attractive to anyone in the North of England.

 

[atillathehunn]

I hate flying (particularly taking off and sometimes landing) but like having flown. Realistically, I'm not able to get to Uzbekistan in the autumn solely over land. Even if I wanted to take a month off work, the route would go through places I as a British person am not allowed to set foot in (Iran).

However, flying over Europe on a crystal clear day in May last year was worth it. Got a really good picture of Lake Constance, saw the Eiffel Tower during the descent into CDG, and almost lost my lunch as we banked hard over the White Cliffs. At the opposite end of the year -- 1999 or 2000, IIRC -- I flew over the Alps and could see the lights of houses and traffic strung across the mountains like jewellery. I can see why people take sightseeing flights, but equally for my long-postponed trip to see UK-based relatives, I'm considering the train and ferry, because the proportion of take off and landing on a short hop is greater than on a long haul cross-continental flight.

Thank you mods for the new thread, though.

As a slight aside and very minor aside, you are allowed to enter Iran with a British passport, it's just a painstaking visa process and you need all sorts of approved LOIs etc. I had a long conversation with Iranian border officials about entering as an emergency from a neighbouring country, including with diplomatic credentials, but it was still a 'no', but they were definitely softening towards the end. I also wouldn't go at the moment but that's a (hopefully) temporary glitch.

But it's also not the only way to go via land to UZ. Heading through Turkey at the Caucasus to Azerbaijan and then the ferry to Turkmenbashi, through KZ to UZ is also an option. The train from Ankara up towards Kars should be stunning.

Obviously when we went to Uzbekistan we did not do this because we didn't have a spare 10 days and took the entirely more sensible Turkish Airlines. However, we did move around within UZ by train as during the off-season, flights between, for e.g. Samarkand and Urgench require a connection in Tashkent, which is definitely heading the wrong way.

 

[BazingaTribe]

I just checked the price of a Manchester-Paris flight for same day travel today. The cheapest is £116, including a checked 23kg bag. The cheapest Eurostar journey, even before Manchester-London rail travel is added, is £228. It's hard to see how that is attractive to anyone in the North of England.

The original discussion that got a bit lost was if continental rail fares were cheaper than UK ones (because it would negate people claiming that fares were extortionate enough to justify evasion and therefore surveillance leading to police action against someone habitually short faring or fare dodging). It took a bit of a turn but we were generally comparing continental flights to continental rail travel rather than as ways of getting to the continent itself.

It makes more sense to fly to Paris from Manchester, definitely. But does it make sense to make a round trip from Paris to Bordeaux by TGV (£200 one way) vs flying (£250 round trip) and are UK fares still more expensive than on the continent, or is the western half of the continent simply catching up?

 

[MerlinRail 804]

Flying is fun. Train is well….a vehicle on rails.

I personally prefer train. Aside from being more interesting in terms of views, and feeling faster, I find it less stressful, tiring, and anxiety inducing. There’s also the environmental impact too. I don’t travel internationally that much, and I’d fly if I need to, but defo train on top.

 

[BazingaTribe]

As a slight aside and very minor aside, you are allowed to enter Iran with a British passport, it's just a painstaking visa process and you need all sorts of approved LOIs etc. I had a long conversation with Iranian border officials about entering as an emergency from a neighbouring country, including with diplomatic credentials, but it was still a 'no', but they were definitely softening towards the end. I also wouldn't go at the moment but that's a (hopefully) temporary glitch.

But it's also not the only way to go via land to UZ. Heading through Turkey at the Caucasus to Azerbaijan and then the ferry to Turkmenbashi, through KZ to UZ is also an option. The train from Ankara up towards Kars should be stunning.

Obviously when we went to Uzbekistan we did not do this because we didn't have a spare 10 days and took the entirely more sensible Turkish Airlines. However, we did move around within UZ by train as during the off-season, flights between, for e.g. Samarkand and Urgench require a connection in Tashkent, which is definitely heading the wrong way.

Yeah, I have two weeks booked with plans to do a lot in Uzbekistan. (Also isn't Turkmenbashi in Turkmenistan? Which is also hard to get a visa for.)

That does sound like an amazing alternative to the Trans-Siberian, though, as a bucket list trip. Seeing Armenia from a train in the spring with Ararat mushrooming out of the ground in front of me as we turned towards Yerevan was a golden moment, as was going to Romania in 2006 and returning to Budapest via Serbia with a very 'Top Gear' esque moment at dawn when a band of smugglers was trying to stuff a palette's worth of jeans down the side of the seats in Timisoara and disembarked at Panchevo after openly bribing the Serbian customs officer to look the other way. (Yes, I watch Top Gear for the travelogues.)

My ideal journey would be North through Belarus to Kyiv to Moscow and out to Beijing and potentially Tokyo, but that's something to save for for when I retire. You've just added another route to my bucket list -- and hopefully by the time I can save up for that the Ayatollahs will have actually stepped down and Iran will be easier to cross.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jan 2026 ==

I personally prefer train. Aside from being more interesting in terms of views, and feeling faster, I find it less stressful, tiring, and anxiety inducing. There’s also the environmental impact too. I don’t travel internationally that much, and I’d fly if I need to, but defo train on top.

Yeah, I'd rather go by rail for short journeys. I got the idea for a Eurostar trip after a short hop from Paris on one leg of my Armenia trip. It couldn't be helped as there are no direct flights from the UK to Armenia, but it did feel wasteful and it wasn't fun for someone who finds take off and landing uncomfortable. I'm planning a trip to my relatives in Scotland and Ireland by land (still looking at options that involve bus rather than train) and sea that I'd usually do by air, and new me just wants to take it a bit slower when I can and relax rather than just having a short hop for a long weekend.

 

[Lewisham2221]

I just did a quick comparison from North Staffordshire to Brussels, Mon-Fri next week.

Drive to Manchester airport. Park. Check in bag. Fast track security. Fly Ryanair to Charleroi with extra legroom. Coach transfer from Charleroi to Brussels. Insured. About £250 return.

Train to Euston. Tube or walk to St. Pancras. Eurostar to Brussels. £400+ before you factor in how I'm getting from home to the station. Pretty much all the "cheaper" E* fares involve a peak train to/from Euston, a night time arrival in Brussels, or require an overnight hotel stay in London. The E* trains that allow off-peak travel to London and a decent arrival time in Brussels (and vice versa for the return) have significantly higher fares that basically wipe out the savings made by being able to travel off-peak within the UK.

Door to door, Eurostar possibly gets the job done and hour or so quicker, but that's not worth the significant extra cost.

Now, I'm being slightly disingenuous, as I can get PRIV and FIP fares, so if I'm travelling alone, I can probably make Eurostar a competitive option. If I'm travelling with someone, I'm not paying (or making them pay) twice the price for no real benefit.

 

[atillathehunn]

Yeah, I have two weeks booked with plans to do a lot in Uzbekistan. (Also isn't Turkmenbashi in Turkmenistan? Which is also hard to get a visa for.)

That does sound like an amazing alternative to the Trans-Siberian, though, as a bucket list trip. Seeing Armenia from a train in the spring with Ararat mushrooming out of the ground in front of me as we turned towards Yerevan was a golden moment, as was going to Romania in 2006 and returning to Budapest via Serbia with a very 'Top Gear' esque moment at dawn when a band of smugglers was trying to stuff a palette's worth of jeans down the side of the seats in Timisoara and disembarked at Panchevo after openly bribing the Serbian customs officer to look the other way. (Yes, I watch Top Gear for the travelogues.)

My ideal journey would be North through Belarus to Kyiv to Moscow and out to Beijing and potentially Tokyo, but that's something to save for for when I retire. You've just added another route to my bucket list -- and hopefully by the time I can save up for that the Ayatollahs will have actually stepped down and Iran will be easier to cross.

You're right - I meant Aktau. There is a ferry to both, but as you say, getting a visa for Turkmenistan is a lottery (as, I believe, is the crossing time across the Caspian...).

I had similarly long wanted to 'over the top' by train, but the more I work and explore central Asia, the more tempting the lower route becomes. There's now an Almaty - Xi'an train as well which looks fun. The new panoramic coaches in the Bishkek-Issy-Kul train look fun as well, well the entire train looks very well restored. It's next on the list, which combined with the Tashkent - Bishkek service would be fun.

Great reminisces of rail journeys - thanks for sharing.

 

[Krokodil]

I just checked the price of a Manchester-Paris flight for same day travel today. The cheapest is £116, including a checked 23kg bag. The cheapest Eurostar journey, even before Manchester-London rail travel is added, is £228. It's hard to see how that is attractive to anyone in the North of England.

How many people book same day travel to Paris? Try a fortnight ahead and Eurostar drops to £66.

Anyway, the cheapest for today that I can see is £140 with no bags.

 

[atillathehunn]

I just did a quick comparison from North Staffordshire to Brussels, Mon-Fri next week.

Drive to Manchester airport. Park. Check in bag. Fast track security. Fly Ryanair to Charleroi with extra legroom. Coach transfer from Charleroi to Brussels. Insured. About £250 return.

Train to Euston. Tube or walk to St. Pancras. Eurostar to Brussels. £400+ before you factor in how I'm getting from home to the station. Pretty much all the "cheaper" E* fares involve a peak train to/from Euston, a night time arrival in Brussels, or require an overnight hotel stay in London. The E* trains that allow off-peak travel to London and a decent arrival time in Brussels (and vice versa for the return) have significantly higher fares that basically wipe out the savings made by being able to travel off-peak within the UK.

Door to door, Eurostar possibly gets the job done and hour or so quicker, but that's not worth the significant extra cost.

Now, I'm being slightly disingenuous, as I can get PRIV and FIP fares, so if I'm travelling alone, I can probably make Eurostar a competitive option. If I'm travelling with someone, I'm not paying (or making them pay) twice the price for no real benefit.

I do this journey a few times a year (well, to Cheshire not Staffordshire and starting in NL). I agree it's often outrageous. You can do it for less, but you need to be ready for when the cheap tickets are released. I snapped up a few €60 singles on conveniently timed Eurostars for the connection at both ends (to get back to NL I need to be in Brussels before 2030 and to get north from Euston before about 2100).

Eurostar desperately needs competition to bring the outrageous fares down a bit.

 

[BazingaTribe]

You're right - I meant Aktau. There is a ferry to both, but as you say, getting a visa for Turkmenistan is a lottery (as, I believe, is the crossing time across the Caspian...).

I had similarly long wanted to 'over the top' by train, but the more I work and explore central Asia, the more tempting the lower route becomes. There's now an Almaty - Xi'an train as well which looks fun. The new panoramic coaches in the Bishkek-Issy-Kul train look fun as well, well the entire train looks very well restored. It's next on the list, which combined with the Tashkent - Bishkek service would be fun.

Great reminisces of rail journeys - thanks for sharing.

The best part of travel is the memories you make!

I plan to travel to Samarkand and Bukhara in my first week, go back to Tashkent and then go to Bishkek and Almaty in my second week, all by train. China is pushing it a bit for this trip, but if all goes well I might try it out in 2028, as I've booked a cruise for next year to finally see the fjords with a decent single occupancy package.

 

[TUC]

Anyway, the cheapest for today that I can see is £140 with no bags.

Try Skyscanner. Choice and competition always gets the best deals.