Train Overcrowding

[Greenback]

There are a heck of a lot of jobs that do require physical presence- research laboratories, manufacturing, medical, care etc. Teaching can be somewhat remotely done for some subjects, but not all, and is generally better with physical presence.

So, we can't all home-work. Further, our internet infrastructure is not high enough capacity and ribust enough to cope with the huge demand than running all those VPN connections would put on it from the security requirments of those jobs that could be done from home.

(I work in a lab, but I do cycle to work. Cycle provision, even in the Cambridge area, is frequently lousy and too-often downright dangerous).

the main barriers though are cultural. Especially in this country, owning a house with a garden is an aspirational thing. Owning a car is seen as a status thing.

I think that's the main point I took from urbandingdong's posts. We need to look at the culture we live in and consider whether we are happier for living the way we do. Yes, it's aspirational to own a house with a garden in aleafy suburb, or more commonly these days in a rural 'idyll'. Mostly, this requires at elast one car per working person, so cars are mostly mor eof a necessity than a symbol of status due to lifestyle choices.

But the price to pay for this lifestyle is pollution, long journey times to and from work, frustration over either traffic jams or delayed and overcrowded trains, and the cost of travelling. whether by road, rail or bus, the cost of travelling can be pretty high and seems likely to only get worse.

Meanwhile, the rural areas suffer a loss of community as the commuters tend not to use the local services so much when they are working in a city every day - a village dweller may not go into the city every day for milk, bread or things like that, but when you are in the city almost every day anyway, it's easy t pick up these things in a supermarket on the way.

I wonder if the price we have paid as a society is worth people chasing the dream, which may not be a dream at all!

 

[jon0844]

Spot on. You've described my situation almost perfectly - although we do buy milk and bread locally most of the time.

 

[WestCoast]

The things you can do with decent infrastructure....
Here you have 1100+ seats on just 1 train.
Trains up to 18 coaches is being investigated.

I traveled on a dutch NS double set like the picture, an absolutely enormous double decker train, pretty much all seats occupied and passengers standing in the "mid-level vestibules" !

Admittedly it was a Friday, close to rush hour on the busy Amsterdam - Utrecht route! (although trains run every 15 minutes )

I have always thought of double deckers as an excellent idea - having used them many times on DB RegionalExpress services in Germany and on intercity/sneltrein services in the Netherlands. They are also fun trains to travel on, the fact that you are often very close to the track on the bottom deck is particularly interesting.

Considering double decker buses are basically a British thing I have always found it peculiar that we don't have double decker trains (obviously it is a gauge issue). However, our European neighbors have them in abundance and yet they are not fond of double decker buses!

But the price to pay for this lifestyle is pollution, long journey times to and from work, frustration over either traffic jams or delayed and overcrowded trains, and the cost of travelling. whether by road, rail or bus, the cost of travelling can be pretty high and seems likely to only get worse.

Population in our inner-cities (especially provincial) has been declining for many years, something that is not necessarily a bad thing! Overcrowded cities are often not pleasant or healthy places to live or be in. We just have to accept that people will want to commute and this (depending on the length of the commute) is not always a bad thing.

 

[yorksrob]

Meanwhile, the rural areas suffer a loss of community as the commuters tend not to use the local services so much when they are working in a city every day - a village dweller may not go into the city every day for milk, bread or things like that, but when you are in the city almost every day anyway, it's easy t pick up these things in a supermarket on the way.

I wonder if the price we have paid as a society is worth people chasing the dream, which may not be a dream at all!

Yes, I do make a point of using some of the local services (mainly curry, chinese, fish and chips etc), although the converse of this will be the effect that it will have on the economy and cultural life of Leeds if my employer (which is very large) succeeds in shifting it's workers to home, particularly if they get used to their tins of beans at lunch and Emmerdale Farm rather than buying sandwiches at £2 a time and having a few jars after work.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I think it is time to move away from single deck trains and invest in double deck trains. These solve many issues the main one being overcrowding at peak times. These are used in quite a few countries around Europe, so why not invest in this type of train. It would solve the problem of also having to extend stations and you could run the service with the same rolling stock and not having to need to extend trains to 12, 16, or even 20 coaches long. A current overcrowded 8 car train would then be full but at least 90% of the current passengers would have a seat.

I agree; a fleet of class Z20500 units would really chew through the crowds at Waterloo, Victoria, CX, etc. Mind you, to use the Z20500 we'd either need to convert those routes to OHL or develop a 750v DC version of the train! ( Which shouldn't actually be too difficult as they have a 1500v DC capability )

 

[Greenback]

Yes, I do make a point of using some of the local services (mainly curry, chinese, fish and chips etc), although the converse of this will be the effect that it will have on the economy and cultural life of Leeds if my employer (which is very large) succeeds in shifting it's workers to home, particularly if they get used to their tins of beans at lunch and Emmerdale Farm rather than buying sandwiches at £2 a time and having a few jars after work.

I don;t think that working from hoem is the answer. After all, people do mostly enjoy and need the social interaction that comes with work!

I suppose what I'd like to see is more localised work, rather than the centralisation of everything that we've seen during my working life. The village where I lived as a young child used to be mainly populated by farmers and market gardeners. But there were also two petrol stations, two banks, a small bus garage, a telephone exchange, a butchers, a hairdressers, and three general stores. There was even a post office where three postal workers were once employe don delivireis! All of these businesses provided local employment opportunities for the people living in the area.

Nowadays all but two of the shops have closed, those remaining benign a Spar and a local shop cum PO, one of the petrol stations struggles on but the farms and market gardeners have long since vanished along with the banks and bus garage. Almost everyone there is now either retired, or works in Swansea, many work further in Cardiff as a result of centralisation in their line of work.

Most of the life and sense of communtiy has gone from the place now. It's sad, and I wonder whether people are happier now that they can drive to Tesco three times a week and push a trolley around their aisles for their pleasure? Good grief, a friendly market gardener used to bring us a box of fresh veg every Friday evening! Those were the days...

(Takes off rose tinted specs)

 

[jopsuk]

One of the reasons why the local shops have fallen victim to the supermarkets is not just the conveniance factor (of having everything under one roof) but opening hours- a lot more people live on their own or lare in relationships where both people work. Shops that stubbornly only open between 9 and 5 during the week, and that are often shut on Saturday afternoons and all day sunday (as many, many independant greencrocers, butchers, bakers etc stuck to) will fail because they've failed to be open when customers can get to them. Some of the ones that survive have done so because they have altered hours- there's a fantastic greengrocer that I often use in Cambridge that opens till 8pm- including Sundays, as it is a small shop.

 

[jon0844]

Some communities have set up facilities for home workers to work from (thus, you have a local office shared with others). This might be a social club, pub, bar or similar.

There are many jobs where you can work away from your office, but not at home (where it's hard to discipline yourself at times - I know because I freelanced for many years) and this means you work in your own community, perhaps travelling to the main office once a week or so.

I'd love to do this, and you'd get to know people in your local community - something many people no longer do. I know people around my office, but virtually nobody at home. My social life is more likely in London than local, which is a bit of a shame but not surprising.

I agree about shop opening hours too. I'll get home at 6.30pm, so the only places open are places like Asda or Tesco.

 

[Greenback]

Of course, opening hours have revolutionised our shopping habits. In the past, it was much rarer that both partners worked full time, and many shops also closed for lunch! There was no way you could do any shopping on a Sunday, and shopping was less of a 'leisure activity' than it is now!

But I don't think it's fair to say that local shops obstinately refused to open except for between 9 and 5. Most shops would happily deliver your groceries for you in the evening, well, they did in my village - just like the market gardener and his veg! Maybe we were just lucky?!!

Jon, what you are saying about working away from the office but not at home is along the lines of what I would like to see. When I was made redundant last year I was suddenly cut off from from my previous life which more or less revolved around my friends and workmates in Swansea, and have had to make new friends in my own community. I find it great to pop in the pub on a Friday or Sunday and find out the local gossip, go to a quiz nightm get involved in local politics and all the other things that make a community tick! In fact, it made we want to buy a small business in the community, which is what I did! I feel reborn!